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That gets reply of the month award hands down. Jim , just hoping you don’t go too cheap. Not worth it. Best of luck. Bad year for potholes too. Maybe hold off until repairs are complete usually around May 1 speaking from an urban perspective.

You get what you pay for to some extent. There’s really no short answer to this rabbit hole topic. short answer - read inordinate amount of reviews, or buy michellin or buy a cheaper tire and plan to replace it every 2-3 years for better rain/snow traction (explanation below) long...... tire feedback and understanding in general is at about a 7 year old level. I’ve never heard one good tire discussion in person or even on a car forum that’s backed by even a tiny bit of data and makes sense. Anecdotes and opinions everywhere that have no technical design basis and usually don’t line up with reality. I’m fine with some of that, but this topic is nearly devoid of it entirely. I had to dig into research to learn something helpful and practical. If you want a great tire the rest of your life and to never think about it again buy Michelin. They are great tires all around, nearly everything they make is good. They’re well respected and ranked as a company, and generally hire experienced decorated engineers/leaders without bragging about it, so it’s not a surprise they’re products are good either. It’s all about materials engineering and what they’re putting into the tires to protect them from UV and oxygen degradation. That’s problematic for a variety of reasons - mostly no one is talking about it and it’s unknown. Think about toys, tools, anything left outside that’s plastic or rubber. It degrades. I could make a huge list. Those materials, particularly cheap or not intended for outdoor use, degrade fast in sunlight and exposure. Who hasn’t experience cracked and broken dried out brittle plastic/rubber handles, Tools, Toys, pools, sleds, planters, etc left outside in the summer sun? we left high quality made in the USA plastic snow sleds from the 1970s out last summer and they fell to pieces. They were flawless without a crack for 40 years and one summer of exposure killed them. tires do the same thing. Go to Florida and find craigslist tires that have sat outside - HOLy smokes they can look like the Grand Canyon even with 90% tread and two years old. And they will SUCK in the rain and snow up here. I’ve seen it multiple times. Even on gravel they’ll slide around with full tread because they’re so dried out and hard. It’s like having Big Wheels (remember those?!) tires on your car, the ABS won’t even work normal in the rain. It’s even unhelpful to leave tires in the same Position for extended periods of time for a few echnical materials and exposure reasons. That’s why there is significant documentation on tire life at the NHTSA and in Canada. and why RV crowd and others cover their tires. That’s what happens to tires as they age. Manufacturers treat the compounds to prevent this degradation process. My guess - is that cheaper tires use less of these preventative chemicals, compounds, and manufacturing processes. My guess may be wrong regarding the causative reasoning but I’ve seen the outcome numerous times no matter what is causing it. And it’s always cheaper tires. A cheap tire can perform just as good as an expensive tire in year one or two. After that the difference can escalate fast. I’ve seen numerous examples of cheap tires (was mart cheapies are particularly bad) showing cracking in less than two years and sliding all over the snow. geneal Altimaxs tires are a great example as they’re loved by Subaru crowd and forums. they’re decent tires and cheap - but have weak sidewalls and degrade by year two. I’ve seen 4-8 of them with bulging sides but live in an area with bad potholes. I’d recommend them in areas with better roads. They perform okay later in life in snow, they’re better than most cheap tires or no names for sure and they’re not cracking early. But snow traction suffer by year two. and I’ve had to convince people I’m trying to help - who don’t believe me - “look at all that tread, they passed inspection, you got to be kidding me, they’re not old”...that I’m right and no one else they’re talking to knows what they’re talking about. Good grief that’s not easy beduse literally noon is aware of tire life span and the driving factors behind it additionally people have various levels of snow experience and tolerance. Someone living in flat rural Ohio with no traffic who gets to work from home when it snows easily raves about the same tire that would kill someone who needs safer tires in a fast urban or mountainous area that never gets plowed and they have to go to work. again skewing reviews and opions all over the place. the Altimax tires are decent but not for more than 2 years for me on a car I need to rely on in the snow. I drive nasty unmaintained mountain roads with horrid grades. They’re good but degradation doesn’t go unnoticed here like it did before I moved to a rural mountain property. *** The huge issue here, is that most online reviews happen in that first year window before any degradation happens. Whatever they do in manufacturing isn’t as likely to impact reviews. So those low possibility of seeing the technical aspects of tire quality bare themselves out in tire reviews. But I’ll look for hints of it when reading them. so we have no good data to go on. Tire materials and ingredients are unknown. Reviews are made by people who don’t know 1% of what I just said and they make the reviews before experiencing issues....and they usually then blame the car “too little weight in the rear”, “4WD is getting old”, “this brand sucks in the snow”...or some other invalid assumption. All of which I’ve heard numerous times form people POed at their poor performing car (which is really tire issues) sorry for the diatribe. The only brand tire I’ve seen that consistently shows great performance across all seasons for 4+ years is Michellin. I haven’t gotten into perellis - I don’t buy them and no ones car I’ve ever worked on has them. Other tire companies make great tires too but it’s hard to pick them out because some are less stellar. So read lots of reviews if snow traction is bad. I buy high end snow tires (XIce or Nokian, based on Canadian research, the low end ones degrade faster as well) and inexpensive all seasons. If I had to buy one all season and drive it in the winter I’d lean towards michellin all seasons, unless some raging number of reviews and price lured me to try something else.

I agree 100%. I suggested that at the beginning of my diatribe. “Buy inexpensive tires and replace sooner”. I’d still avoid no names or low end wal Mart for snow duty. I’ve seen them horrible after just 2 years if they’re parked outside in a sunny area on other peoples cars. I mean horrendous. Wish I would have taken pictures with the tire date stamps. That’s dangerous up here where people have no idea how bad they could be and sometimes don’t have much money Definitely a good fit. I didn’t mean anything as a one size fits all solution. I was describing a key point that isn’t available elsewhere online. As you said There are other factors and good fits out there.

No personal experience yet with these, but I've been shopping tires and reading reviews and just ordered some BF Goodrich G-Force Comp 2 A/S+. It was between that and the Michelin CrossClimate 2 for me. I liked that the BFG was a lot cheaper and had a lot better dry and wet performance (Tirerack testing), while still having good snow performance (couldn't wait for the upcoming Tirerack winter tests on these). I didn't care about the treadwear difference (45K miles BFG vs. 60K miles Michelin) because I drive relatively low mileage, and the tires will probably age out, even if mostly garaged. The main pluses for the Michelin are the 3peak mountain snowflake rating if I need to drive through places that require that rating in winter (parts of Canada), and ice performance in Alaska. New England roads, at least where I am part of the year, are plowed and salted quickly enough that my GF has no problem with her cheap all-seasons on her Sienna. I keep my (rust-free) 2003 Legacy off the New England roads then anyway.

All good info. The problem I see with going with Michelins at twice the price of the others is that if you have a failure with one tire and need to replace all 4 to appease the AWD gods, it's a hurting feeling. I do keep my cars garaged so UV degradation is minimized. If on average 12-13K/year drives, that's roughly 3.5 years on a 45K mile tire so even without lathering on sunscreen, it should last. Probably looking at a mid grade tire for the above reasons. Only other question I haven't been able to sort out is "road noise". I once bought Triple Tred and they were extremely loud from day 1.

Good point, I 'usually' buy my tires before the rainy season here.

I will say, I just don't think super-long tread life tires are a great idea. If you end up with irreparable damage to one tire and can't find a partially used replacement, you will lose a lot of value replacing pricey tires. I also lean toward a little stickier tires and those usually don't have super long life. I would rather give-up lifespan to get better traction. Everything your car does while moving depends on 4 small patches of rubber. I have used Kumho on both cars (though radically different models) and thought they were decent value. The tires on the Outback at present are a little better, Pirelli Cinturatos, that so far are great. You might call-up a couple of Discount Tire stores and ask what other customers have been putting on their Subarus. Local info/reviews are more pertinent than the choice of some guy in Texas. Keep location in mind also if reading reviews at TireRack or other places online. Tires are still 'mostly' hand-made (or 'semi automated) so, make sure your retailer has a good reputation. Not everyone needs all seasons either. Touring tires could be better for some folks, especially in the north where many switch to true snow tires.

To further moosens point - waiting is good. if I need it for snow I like to buy them I’m the late fall right when snow is falling so I’m getting fresh tread on snow. I want to maximize tires towards winter use not summer. I’ll run bad tires in the summer until winter but I’ve got multiple subarus so I can leave that one sit if it’ll see rainy days. but if they’re needed they’re needed.

Well done bumping the oldest dated thread on USMB! Lol

I'm drooling all over that digi dash! never have had the opportunity to see a working one yet, always makes me smile when I see one.

Well, she passed the WOF with a clean check sheet! I have now taken possession. Here are a few more teaser shots. I'll take some more tomorrow after a good wash. Not a bad pairing! Povo spec later model carbie touring wagon and a top spec early model JDM sedan.

Inferno Fabrications in St. Helens has done EA82T stuff for us in the past - needed an up-pipe for a customer several years ago and he made one up. GD