Quidam

Hey paco, Here are three gasket sets. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-1400-DL-GF-GL-New-Head-Gasket-Set-09-11302_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4838ef0ac5QQitemZ310192835269QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories The guys here can fill you in on it, but these sets don't contain the rings, (or whatever they are called) for the cylinder liners. Take a look through the Subaru section of that store. Doug

If by some chance what you're hearing is preigniton-pre-detonation, leading to detonation, your engine can't conpensate for it through the engine management. But IDK about your engine...if it's detonation in that manner, it will start under load... hth Wild rump roast guess. Change the plug wires. Doug

When a spark plug fires, it creates a great deal of electromagnetic interference (EMI). Uncontrolled, this can show up as static in electronic devices, or much more seriously, in electronic ignitions, fuel injection, and engine management systems. This interference with EFI and engine management systems can cause "cross talk" between wiring harnesses resulting in poor running, misfiring and decreased performance. That's some of what NGK has to say about EMI. I can't measure it but I have no reason to doubt it. For an EJ with symptoms, it may be your plug wires. Doug

"Or maybe the pinging is from something loose within the drivetrain?" So it's pinging and it starts at 2000 rpm? Doug

"Am I wrong to be upset and think they should repair this car?" No, I don't think so. Why haven't people filed a class action law suit against Subaru for this? They went too cheap with the die cast and you're paying for it. Doug

"The knocking occurs exactly as with the replaced engine, at 2000rpm and I know the engine was replaced I witnessed everything..." Post a file of the noise and someone here may be able to identify that. Could you hear it in the car? Odds are that it's not the two engines...I would think...Or it's normal as has be said. Are these Subaru mechanics? Doug

Hey, The gasket sets are available from ebay, I think. Possibly not a "complete" set tho. Two different Subaru engines I've worked on had basically, .006 and .010 for valve lash...but you'll want to check. Someone here HAS to have one of those carbs lying around. Or 4. Doug

"Turbo's have problems with detonation anyway - it's because of cylinder pressure's and fuel mixture issues." They do indeed, the compression ratio. And true engine management, or lack thereof. Fuel mixture doesn't make sense. If it's that, fix it. But if you don't know the real problem, you can't fix it. "Fuel Cut"? REALLY, how do you know? I believe I've seen people chase all sorts of things with the EA T.

Here's a snip from Jasper Engines: Spark Plug Wire Induction Cross-Firing Causing Engine Damage The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information regarding spark plug wire cross-firing on an internal combustion engine. If an engine continues to operate that way, engine damage on only one piston or only one rod bearing may result. This can occur shortly after rebuilding an engine, or anytime the spark plug wires are rerouted. Induction cross-firing results from the magnetic field produced when an electrical current passes through a spark plug wire, causing two cylinders to fire at the same time. If crossfiring is allowed to occur, one cylinder has the spark plug firing ADVANCED 90° from the proper time. With that amount of ignition advance, it is only a matter of time until a component will fail. During assembly of an affected engine, finding broken cast piston ring land(s) or damaged connecting rod bearings on the cylinder which was firing too early, should be no surprise. In these instances, the components have been operating beyond their intended designed parameters. A hypereutectic or forged piston will last longer, only because they are stronger. However, those engines will eventually fail, as well. Listed below are some of the most common engines to be damaged by cross-firing. The second underlined cylinder in each firing order is the one which is possibly firing 90° advanced. Be aware there are many other engines not on this list that could exhibit this type of failure; it all depends on how the spark plug wires were routed. If you see a failure for no apparent reason, look over the engine firing order and spark plug wire routing. Also, inspect the spark plugs themselves for signs of pre-ignition. If a picture reference is needed, the AERA Piston, Ring and Pin Failure Booklet is available. A detailed definition of preignition and detonation are included in the booklet. Common cylinders to cross-fire are listed below in bold and underlined. American Motors 1-8-4-3-6- 5-7-2 304, 360, 401 Chrysler Engines 1-8-4-3-6- 5-7-2 273, 318, 340, 360, 361-440 Ford Engines 1-5-4-2-6-3- 7-8 221-302, 332-348, 370-460 Ford Engines 1-3-7-2- 6-5-4-8 302 HO, 351-C, 351-W General Motors 1-8-4-3-6- 5-7-2 Buick 215-455, Chevrolet 262-502, Oldsmobile 260-455, Pontiac 325-455 Navistar 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 266, 304, 345, 392 Now, think EA-82T again, for example. This may be new to people...but it's old news too.

Here's one Mfg.'s TSB for example. Keep in mind that when a EA-82T has a verified induction situation to #3 and #4 cylinder, you may hear spark knock. The distributor retards the timing via input from the knock sensor. But you haven't done anything to stop the inductance and it continues. This shows up most under load, of course. For a Subaru example. The engine is getting pounded under load and eventually find the weakest link. Date: December 30, 1998 Models: 1994-1999 BR/BE Ram Note: applies to vehicles with 3.9L, 5.2L and 5.9L engines (gas) 1994 - 1999 (AN) Dakota 1994 - 1999 (BR/BE) Ram Truck 1998 - 1999 (DN) Durango 1995 - 1999 (XJ) Cherokee 1994 - 1999 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee Symptoms: some vehicles may exhibit one or more of these symptoms: spark knock complaints with vehicle under load various single cylinder misfire (1, 3, 7,) ad especially 5 and/or 8 surge in 4th gear with the Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch (EMCC) engaged (around 45MPH). Perceived torque converter EMCC engagement/ disengagement around 45 MPH. Diagnosis: Using the Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS/MDS2) or the Diagnostic Scan Tool (DRB III), verify that all engine/transmission systems are functioning as designed. If other DTC's are present, repair as necessary before proceeding with this bulletin. If no other DTC's are present and the above symptoms have been reported by the customer, perform the repair procedure. NOTE: This rerouting procedure should be performed before any other misfire, surge, or spark knock repairs are attempted. The fix. Seperate the wires like above in the plug wire holder. They supply the new holder, so you can skip the center wire holder, creating the gap between wires. They supply the plastic wire loom covers to put over the wires where they intersect. They reroute the coil wire and specify no less than 1" between the coil wire and other wires. Interestingly they say if you cross wires, do it at a 90* angle. I saw a picture of a 3L Subaru airplane engine. They bundled the wires together but had covers over all the wires.

" it's because of cylinder pressure's " Ah, when the fuel lights off prematurely it starts to build pressure...when it ignites normally, say 36* BTDC...All that pressure is normally timed to peak at about 12* ATDC. To have leverage on the crank. Unstead, most of that pressure is pushing against the crank on the up-stroke, the compression stroke. Doug Edit: No, I've never blown up an EA due to induction. I know better, I learned the hard way with a small block Chevy and cylinder #7. Edit: In the EA-82T example. The way the plug wires are factory routed, and seeing as induction can only happen to #3 and #4 on this engine... If your EA-82 failed due to induction, it will show up first on #3, odds for # 4 are a little less. The plug wires need to be at least 12 mm apart, or so to prevent this from happening.

Put it this way GD. Pre ignition of the cylinder gases via induction, end result is detonation. I told you I've always called this predetonation. Forget the EJ for this discussion. How about looking and posting pictures of the EA-82T's that have been built. "In practice this just isn't a concern." Says the man with the exploded EA-82T. Doug

Hey, Here's a motor you've probably seen before. "Ultimate Subaru Justy Turbo". With a supercharger too. What has he wound up with? 2 hp per cubic inch? 3 hp? 4 hp per cubic inch? I don't know for sure. Some here expect that it will blow up. I do too, if it's ran as pictured below. And I'll tell you why. EDIT: These are Genuine Subaru plug wires. 20 yrs. old and 180,000 miles...to the best of my knowledge. Quality, stainless terminals but out of factory spec at 16.23. The factory spec is listed on the card.

"You guys are discussing preignition,not detonation." Ok, if induction prematurely ignites a cylinder, (I've called preignition pre-detonation for a long time), that cylinder will detonate...one of the worst forms of detonation there is. "Plug wires will bite you when the insulation breaks down,not the core. The laatter makes the former more likely,but,that is another story." Ok. Come on Gary, grab hold of your Magnecore wires with the engine running. And let us know what happens. It's still possible you can get bit, just not as likely. I think it can be said that plug wires will bite you if the insulation breaks down. It can also be said, plug wires will bite you if the carbon core breaks down. Doug Edit: Prematurely ignite one cylinder, now what does that mean? Normally a cylinder fires 30-40* BTDC. If the spark is delivered 90* too early, the gases will light off at 120-130* BTC on the compression stroke. Piston on it's way up and it smacks head on into the expanding combustion process. Again, this is one of the worst forms of detonation.

Hey, Can of worms:) I didn't know the wasted spark helped emissions. Boy, you know some people, old people, like me, have a long history with plug wires. I know people can tell you all kinds of stories, seeing them glow after dark, getting bit by them. If you get bit by touching a good looking plug wire, you know things aren't what they look like. I'd urge Gary to try something: Grab a Magnecor with your hand, I'm pretty sure he won't get bit. What I'm wondering is the voltage output of the coils in question. 20,000, 45,000? Me, I'm all for coil on plug and coil near plug. But it costs more. People will deal with plug wires for a long time to come, but I hope they're on their way out. GD, your Chevy, with the two cylinders next to each other, and consequetive in the firing order. If you have induction from #5 to #7, and it lights off #7, that's detonation. The Subaru has two cylinders at risk from that, #3 and #4. An EF-12 firing order is 1 3 2, #2 can get pounded by detonation, 2 and 3 side by side in the block. So if #2 cylinder is wasted in a Justy, that's what I'd suspect. Now, a 2.7 an 3.3 Subaru has a firing order of 1 6 3 2 5 4. None of them are together in the block so the chance of induction and detonation is practically eliminated in those engines. An then the issue of EMI...Remember, MSD says NGK does a good job with the carbon core construction. That it does a good job with EMI too, untill the core starts breaking down. That's when you get bit by them:) It's said that EMI is like the electronics "hearing" radio static. Not by induction. So if you have crossfires, sparks to ground, etc...noise. What would that effect in a Subaru? But for now, how much voltage does an EJ coil put out? Doug

Hey, I'm pretty sure Subaru doesn't make their own wires. I had one set of Genuine Subaru. Silicon boots and outer layer, but still carbon core. Possibly made by NGK? Magna core claims that it's the carbon core that eventually breaks down. Where theirs are stainless spiro hooked wire to wire one end to the other around a ferro core. At least I see how they can warrantee them for life to the original owner and last longer, as Gary suggested. If as time passes and the core breaks down, gets corroded as you state, etc. There will also be more compression in the intended cylinder (#1) than #3. It will take the path of least resistence. Doug

Hey GD, I thought of something you could try. Tape # 5 and #7 plug wires together on your Chevy. ***.O. 18436 57 2. And see what happens. Doug

"I'm not sure if my engine uses mechanical lifters. Anybody else know? It's an EJ25 DOHC." Don't know for sure but what I've read is mechanical have tear drop shaped spark plug boots and the other is oval. hth Doug

Hey GD, Ok, clear something up for me. You're saying one part of the coil pack fires 1 and 3 at the same time. The other side of the coil pack fires 2 and 4. I was thinking it would be 1 and 4 on one coil pack with 2 and 3 on the other. Doug Edit: Or fire 1 and 2 off one coil with 3 and 4 on the other. Magnecor gives NGK good marks for their construction of the carbon core wires, btw. For that type of wire. To induce say, #3 to fire off of #1 when it's fired...the plug wires would have to be close to each other. Like wires are ran on the EA-82T, right next to each other and touching in places. 1 and 3 consecutive in the firing order, both of them by a matter of degree pulling in the intake charge. Edit: Say #1 fires at 36* BTDC to produce good leverage to the crank via the piston/rod 7 or 12* ATDC. The intake charge is loaded for #3 and going up on compression. It gets a premature spark via induction and lights off. If that's wrong, let me know please. Sincerely, Doug

Hey, I looked at the Magnecor stuff some more. The Ford 2.3T,some Lotus, Subaru, Toyota, and probably a couple more are listed with the 8.5 wire available. The 7mm and 8mm are not available for these cars. Of course, MC will build anything you want. But they have a good reason, I don't think they would leave money on the table when they could easily list and sell the cheaper sets. Doug Edit: Keep in mind I've never worked on an EJ. It looks like they say it's because of EMI. Ok, what exactly does it effect in the electronics. Induction induced detonation is one possibility, always has been in the right situation. But as Gloyale pointed out in another thread, Subaru uses some shields and tape? Of course, the easiest thing to do is seperate them by like 12mm to stop induction. Doug

Hey Gary, I took another look at the download and this was near the front page: Some sets are only available in our KV85 Competition 8.5mm cable, even though the original size is 7mm. We do this because these engines sometimes experience serious EMI problems (particularly on modified engines) and KV85 Competition 8.5mm cable is the best choice. A lot of misfire code reports here it seems...

Hey, Other than buying from Magnecor, I've only saw one person selling on-line, and those are ebay listings. That seller only has the 7mm wires for '94 on down Subarus. That low price I posted was for an EF-12, three short 8.8mm wires and a coil wire. Those wires are available in 7mm and up for the EF-12. I don't know if they are "better" than OEM for the '95 up cars. I do believe plug wires can be a maintence item like spark plugs. That brings me to which Subarus have coil on plug? I've never worked on these EJ's. Doug Edit: Only thing I can come up with is possibly the introduction of OBD2.

Hey, I went looking for plug wires. I remember GrossGary saying he had ran Magnecor and transferred to his driver when he sold the car. Anyway, I found that Magnecor recommends their KV85 8.5mm wires on the '95 to '09 Subarus. The '94 down Subarus have listings for 7, 8, and 8.5mm wires. Prices range from $57.00 to $145.00 and they say the 8.5 wire squishes into the OEM 7mm wire holders. There must have been a change in ignition or something in '95 to require the 8.5, don't you think? What is it? Fill me in here. Old Subies have about 40,000 volt coils or something, right? Use to be that was a aftermarket high performance ignition system. Thoughts? Doug

That Ford motor is a racers favorite, and has been for many years. More aftermarket than I can shake a stick at. Even Speedway Motors, etc. Doug Then there are the Turbo versions...

subinut, That puts a load on the engine, lugging it. 25 in 5th type stuff puts a load on the thrust bearing. Doug