snaffle

Thanks Guys, as to your posts above. To "ME" it seemed so terrible, but after reading your initial responses. Guess it is just typical for the world we live in now. Nobody really give's a sh**. Again hopefully the rest of the job will pan itself out as OK. At least they (that dealership) answered their phone, after 22 rings! And had a nice female who spoke so fast that I hardly caught her name. OK there's my upside of the story. I'll certainly never assume nothing and will check sticks before I leave the bay from now on! -Snaffle

Hi Friends, Let me say first that I appreciated the last couple recent posts that would have been hopefully closure and a great learning experience for us all to read and learn from. But there is a final Bullet. It is now 12/21 and as stated above I got her back, she seemed ok, even after the first two ouchies from day 1 of getting her back from the dealer. (as stated above in previous posts). We are now at about 1500 miles since the engine replacement, and of course the 1 week transition of running the engine 500 miles then the warranty on the used engine requiring a full oil and filter change, thus done a couple weeks ago. As I've been driving her, I noticed as coming around corners....she would act like I had been at full stop, and almost downshifting to first, and cutting in and cutting back up..tranny seemed wrong. I thought maybe a loose wire while dealer re-installed engine (reference to past lil probs) yet today I finally found a problem. Considering the dealer stated I had a leaking Tranny cover, they did a full pan drop and re-gasket of tranny pan as part of the engine install. There has been NO leaks of any fluids since then as everything looks high and dry, yet....why is the tranny doing what she's doing?? I pulled the tranny stick, and found the stick BONE DRY!!! I never thought of checking the stick as I knew the dealer just charged me some 1600 dollars (USD) to do the engine install, plus the car had just been through another FULL oil change and such 1 week after that service. (total engine failure cost nearly 3000 (USD) since failure) I could never imagine it, but the dealer seemingly forgot to add right amount of ATF!! So I have driven my roo for 1500 miles without a full compliment of ATF! It took nearly 3 qts to get the ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) to the correct level as I just did that today myself. The Dealer techs stated, hmm, that sounds strange and acted like "nothing was wrong on our part", after I called to tell them my discovery. they said oh well, we'll let the mechanic know. I mean NO COMPASSION after all the work that was done there. Also I noticed the motor oil level was one baby finger over the HOT NOTCH on the stick and they just said again, oh, looks like maybe it's a half quart over, but don't worry about it, you'll burn that off before the next oil change. Bottom Line: I got the tranny back to it's correct level, what a diff!! No more slip shifting and such. I think Motor Oil probably is a little high, as even when checked cold it is just above the HOT NOTCH (the notch just above the F (full) mark) So I'm hoping truly that that is just maybe an extra 1/2 qt in the engine of motor oil. Although Owners manual on a 2.2 states at cold, fill to full mark, and allow an oil level at hot to be BETWEEN full (second hole) and that cut out notch in stick). Last thing I need after all this, is to have a dealer who can't even fill the fluids correctly!! Even the service tech as I explained the oil stick said he never heard of a notch being in an oil stick. He said that was only in a tranny stick, which when observed HAS NO NOTCH. He seemed so ignorant to a simple dip stick. (I say the word ignorant as lack of knowledge, not to be a slang to be dissing the tech on his overall person). And then is non concerning about it after I just dropped over 2 grand to just say, "oh well, we'll let the mechanic know". This is the TOP Certified Subaru dealer in this market. Considering all the other things in this thread that I shared about my experience with this dealer, I would certainly say that *************** is NOT a good shop as far as details! At least I feel now I could NOT recommend them for service! There is only one other certified dealer close to this metro, but I learned many of the guys who work there used to work for ********! These are the same guys who told me not to worry over the past two years that my engine oil level was over the hot notch as I questioned my oil level at each oil change done by them for past 2 years. Funny how engine began leaking oil out of front and back, just before this total engine failure. I think maybe I may be ok with what I have now, corrected. But my trust in that dealership and it's ethics, customer relations and sensativity to a problem, which was clearly their mistake, should be well documented. I wonder what other shortcuts may have been taken. I even began to believe in the dealerships soundness after their talk, and the use of their demo...but now wonder if that was just a smoke screen. I am certainly disappointed and saddened when you can't even seem to trust a Subaru dealer to take care of your care in proper fashion. I am a forgiving man, but after you read this entire thread of my treatment from them, you can start to see Bull************. Especially since I am a dealer brat myself, growing up a genuine respect for "The Dealer". You pay more, but maybe you can rest assured it's done right. NOT WITH THIS DEALER! I probably should report this whole affair to Subaru Of America or something?? Funny thing is, maybe that possibly good mechanic, just forgot the simple step of topping off the fluid in the tranny with all the work he did to completely replace the engine. As everything else now seems ok, and maybe it's just some service techs that don't really have a passion for their job. It may have just been an oversight, but with the history I have shared over the past two months in detail, I wonder if I'm just being TOO forgiving. Personally I am just so tired of this whole issue. In my whole life I have never dealt with such a crappy experience from a dealership that seems to just go on and on in ignorance and a lack of respect for a customer. I stand mystified. Oh well, Thanks for letting me share my frustrations and such here with fellow owners of Subarus. This whole ordeal has been a nightmare, I can only hope now that all will be fine from 1500 miles on. -Snaffle Update 1/3/06: Tech I shared the incident with never told the service mgr, as I just shared the incident with him today personally. He (Serv Mgr) has always seemed to be square with me and apoligized to me and gave me a free oil change. Also My starter gave out last week and considering all I have already spent he gave me the starter for cost and halved the 1.5 hr of labor rate for install of the starter. Be nice if the whole shop ran that way, seems the only way I have got things handled was to deal directly with the Serv Mgr. Thing is, you shouldn't have to, so I stand with the other un edited text in this post. I think at this shop all work should be double checked and nothing assumed which I will now do the best I can.

Hi there friends, Well I know a book on my last post so I'll be brief tonight. I got my roo back from dealer today. Apparantly some loose carbon chunks got into the EVAP. Causing Check Engine Light. EVAP purge valve plugged. Dealer cleaned valve and all lines. On the way home today, car ran Fine and was running like a new pup. Bad news, my old core was already picked up by scrap company so we will never know what internal engine failure really happened. Oh well, at least I'm back on the road and it really feels like I have a good engine, it has way more pick-up and spunk than my other engine seemed to have. I'm taking it real easy for first 500 miles then have to do a oil and filter change as per warranty. Then I'll keep her on Valvoline 5w-30 every 3000 for 6 mos during warranty then think I'll stick with dino Valvoline and goto 5000k changes considering my driving sted of 7500. I learned alot from all your posts on oil and intervals, thought the 5k interval would be a good choice from your posts. Thanks again for all your comments during the duration of this thread. I really felt I had friends with me thru this whole process, as it was quite stressful. I hope any new interaction will be less of a disaster nature. Thanks, -Snaffle

Hello Friends, I know it was a spell since my last post but nothing had happened due to thanksgiving holiday and all. Today I got my roo back with it's newly installed Japanese Imported Used Engine! It's amazing the power and acceleration I had NEVER felt in this subie! It feels like a brand new car as far as far as my first few miles in it! Turns out the install was $1400 sted of 1000. With one of these imported engines, the warranty requires all new sensors, new rad hoses, new water pump and alot of stuff including earlier posts revealing strip it down to long block and swap everything. Considering the dealer had me an new Forester Demo for past 3 weeks, I was not about to complain about the 400 buck over estimate. (Find out more by looking up Japan Engine Inc in San leandro, CA as they have their warranty online at their site). I think choosing an Imported Japanese engine was a good choice considering the age of the car rather than a new or re-manf engine. I must change the oil after 500 miles then every 3,000 to fulfill the warranty for 6 months, then I plan to go back to my 7500 as recommended by Subaru for my easy 100 mile roundtrip to work each day on highway. Probably will go back to Mobil-1 5w-30 after warranty as I'm not using the mobil-1 right now (using Valvoline 5w-30) for the 3k oil changes as I put 2200 a month on her. It's all easy miles, I don't speed, I baby her and run like 67-72 MPH on highway portion. Car is garaged in heated garage daily. As far as earlier posts regarding intervals..remember my car is SEEN by a certifified mechanic (Dealer) 4-5 times a year considering the quick highway miles put on her (nearly the same as someone who drives 3k in 2-3 months), so the car is well looked over often. I have logged and done regular service by the book. If the book (Owners Manual) is so wrong as some have suggested as far as my usage falling into the the 7500 mile range, why havn't there been tons of other roo's failing due to service intervals?? Yes I saw how the thread here got intense about oil and how it may have led to this failure, at 107K. I really think we went way off on science of oil. Remember I bought my '96 legacy roo wagon used with a salvage title at 60k already on her from Denver (A land of many mountains and stressful conditions for a roo if she had been handled hard the first 60k). I have seen how some people push their cars up I-70 to Vail just ripping away at high RPMS and who knows how the original owner serviced her. I found NO service recorded for her VIN through Subaru except for recall for a few little items early on. All the service I have done to her through my dealer has been recorded automatically through Subaru's website. Sure maybe the dude who owned her previous never recorded his service or ever had a certified dealer do the work. Or maybe the car sat for 3-4 years in a junkyard somewhere near Denver. See, to many "what-if's" here. Bottom Line is dealer believes the engine was the factory engine but can't be certain. Timing cover removed revealed timing belt was in great condition for 50k of use (as that was documented) and engine was NOT off time or jumped during failure. Oil also showed no abnormal signs according to mechanic of looking bad, as he had serviced my car for past two years and said, "there's nothing wrong with your oil". Guess it's up to me now to break it down, as I hope to in the future when I get the core home and look inside (may need some help on what to look for as I am not a mechancic but am pretty darn knowlegeble of troubleshooting and stuff). Oh Crap I forgot to tell them I want to take the core home, crap! I'll have to call tomorrow and let them know I want the core. They told me they pretty much swapped EVERYTHING over. OK and now the gut wrenching experience, 2 blocks from dealer, CHECK ENGINE comes on!!! I driver right back, bring her back in to dealer. After 30 min in waiting room, Service Mgr says it was just SMOG code..apparantly a EVT valve (or something like that) a plastic lil smog valve got cracked during install, mech thought minor, and tryed glueing it back together, apparantly that was the failure so they replaced it with a used one they had on hand. I was not too impressed by that, considering I just dropped $1400 for a professional install, why would the mech glue a smog device together?? Secondarily, I drove the 50 miles home and 5 miles before I got home..CHECK ENGINE came on again. Both times were just steady, not flashing...now dealer wants me to bring car back and even offered to just give be back the Demo 06 Forester to use rather than have me wait around the dealership. The engine showed no signs of performing badly with these lights. I believe it's probably loose elec connections of maybe some other SMOG hose loose or something. Also recall the ORIGINAL story of my oringinal engine failure. I pushed the engine this last time during a CHECK ENGINE situation which had a repeated history itself 3 times of mis-firing at high speed passing. Considering most of my accessories were swapped to this new "used" Long Block...maybe I still have the same problem, and if I have a life or death passing situation, will this engine fail again as the last because of a problem in the computer or electrical parts of operation that may make engine go off timing or run lean and then forcing high speed will lead to an engine failure??? That is the direction I hoped this thread would go, sted of the science of Oil Changes and intervals, as I gotta believe the oil was not an issue in this pre-mature failure, especially since I have a NEW "used" longblock and already we got trouble lights again! Still alot of questions to be answered, we have nothing but time, but I certainly will NOT push engine RPMS with check engine light again, especially if it's flashing as in my first post of failure. I feel it is safe to drive back to city and dealer at easy speed limit while engine seems to be running solid and it really does sound like SMOG issue. Hope I didn't open a can of worms here, but this is an interesting situation and I am trying to keep you all up to date with my latest experiences and reports. Biggest bad feeling I have is going back to dealer tomorrow and saying I want my core, hoping I can still identify it, as they did several engine jobs in the past few weeks. Let alone trying to transport it home. (I do have a 1-ton GMC Dually in my barn and a tractor with front-loader, so hopefully I'll be ok there). OR does it REALLY MATTER to try and keep my old core and look inside?? What will it really prove here? Except cure our curiosity. I know the engine had internal failure, I saw timing belt (OK after 50k), I saw engine was still in-time, we know 1 cyl had little or no compression but still the engine idled, very rough! And we know the engine oil was fine as at failure last change was 5k using Mobil-1 for past 3 years. Oh and by the way when I say 3 years (as I've had her for 2) the prev owner only had her 1 year and started the mobil-1 treatment as he got her at 52K from a guy who rebuilds subie's in Denver Metro. So he got this Roo in 2002 from a fella who rebuilds cars, a '96 with 52K in 2002, hmm 6 yrs old with 52k, pretty low miles...makes me wonder how long the roo was sitting in a yard collecting rust, especially since I learned the title was a salvage title. (When I say rust, body is fine, but did notice weathering apparant in engine compartment as compared to rest of car, almost like interior was hardly "used" yet inside engine compartment seemed to be more rusty spots and age look). So you see, I really don't know what I truly have here to make a good judgment on. Some of this info has just been known to me know after the guy I bought her from spilled some more beans. So maybe we should focus on what's at hand NOW, as the past of this poor roo is starting to show we really gotta look at what is happening now, rather then dwell on what her life was between 1996 and 2002. I do know the guy I bought her from totally was felt good about her and has records of good service for the short time he owned her. I will update this post again when I get her back after tomorrow, hope I can find my old core and dig deeper to discover what failed, although I truly believe at this point it will be a waste of time. I really believe I'll have thousands of miles ahead in my rebuilt roo with continued gentle care especially the way I treat her. And I hope this post is a lesson, as I have learned from being kindof ripped off through this whole experience. 1. Always ask to see title before you pay book value for a used roo, even if from a good friend who may not understand what a "Salvage Title" means. Realize a salvage title means you have NO idea what you are buying, except that the car must have been totalled and is not worth, nor will ever be worth anywhere near blue-book value. 2. Know YOU can buy a used engine directly without calling someone else who makes a phone call and marks up that engine 30% and have it delievered to the shop doing the install job. 3. Know when you buy a Imported Japanese Engine you are basically getting JUST the long-block and it will take some good labor charges to swap over most of your engine parts. Still a good choice but always add like $500 in labor addition to a estimate of a shop willing to replace your engine (for I believe many shops expect to just drop it in as is, not expecting what must be done to ensure a imported japanese used engine in installed correctly considering it's origin and young 35-45 block life). As compared to a new or re-built which you pay more for up front for but is probably more "complete". 4. If the CHECK ENGINE is blinking do ALL you can to reduce RPM's if possible to prevent an internal engine failure, especially if you feel her mis-firing. In closing for tonight, I have been brought up from a Father who has been in the imported car business his whole life and has tought me many things to watch for. At 45 now myself I think maybe sometimes we let our guards down, especially after having years of being lucky in used car purchases. Especially if you are buying from a friend who may not really know the car business much. 2 years ago after the oringinal sale when I finally got the title (about 30 days or so after I dropped the cash for her) and saw "Salvage Title" I knew I may be in for trouble ahead. Not all salvaged vehicles are going to be a bad deal, but in this case, let's face it, I got duped. I only hope now that with a new "used" engine I can maybe recover from this terrible loss. Considering how the rest of the car is in such good shape, maybe my roo will prove herself true now to the Subaru tradition of dependability and length of life. I hope my experience as I write to this board will be useful to others. There are still a few issues to address but I do not believe it is related to the reliability of the Subaru or it's oil change interval. Thanks for listening to the WHOLE story. I just wanted to make sure we are all still on the same page. Let's remember along with insurance to repair my roo from a deer hit 2 months or so ago, over 12 thousand dollars has gone into this car including the 6K I paid to buy her in 2003 at 60K, the 4K (insurance paid) of body repair after my little deer encounter plus the 1K I spent out of my own pocket to do the other non-deer damage paint blending and chip-repairs to make the rest of her look good as compared to her direct deer damages, plus now the 2.5K I just dropped on replacing her engine. Considering her extremely beautiful body and interior along with other parts, I had to continue to own her and fix her. I would hope that last paragraph would explain WHY I chose to keep her, even after an engine failure. Realize with a "salvage title" I could never get a fair trade-in value at a dealer so she is only worth what she is to me, or maybe another subie owner seeing her improvements. So if nothing else, maybe this whole thread is just an education into something I should have already known, but let my guard down. I hope it's useful to others. Thanks again for listening. -Snaffle

Hello guys! Good input and thanks for the posts. Thought I'd respond to the thread in regards to the latest posts. First off I did chat with Japan Engine Inc in San Leandro CA today and found out the used Japanese engine they are sending me will work, as they did match it to my Vin and exact model, something was was not fully done with the first engine sent. Blame that on the "engine dealer" here in Omaha who obtained the engine for me as I did not realize I could deal directly with the importer in CA. The guy here in Omaha did not give Japan Engines in CA enough detailed information. So what WE learn here is if you ever BUY a used Japanese Imported Engine, just deal with them directly. In other words, avoid the middle-man who basically just made a phone call to order the engine and marked it up 200 bucks. I could have made the same call and had the engine directly sent to the dealer who is doing the install! Now I'll respond directly to the latest posts: Strakes wrote a nice piece that solidifies maybe "why" this engine failed. Who knows how the previous owner really treated it. Lots of what if's, agreed! Also Thanks for the personal message too about how my roo held up long enough to avoid a potential accident even while running bad at a moment. I am certainly thankful she did! 1 Lucky Texan shared the cost of tearing into the failed engine to discover what happened. I agree we would all like to know. He also shared how it's a bummer I have a 2500K cost to get her back on the road, but for now that beats starting over with 300/mo or more for a new car payment. I hope to keep her for another 2 years then maybe consider a new roo. Hopefully in a couple years I can still get a good price for her as she is in Excellent Condition, let's just hope this used engine does not fail in that time. It would be a different story if the car was noticibly beaten, she's almost 10 years old and everything else seems pretty solid not to mention body and interior is cherry. I keep all my vehicles in heated garage at my ranch. There is no trace of rust on her anywhere! Apparantly the previous owner must have at least shown equal respect to the car as well, as far as body care and cleanliness. Personal Note: Don't fret Lucky, I had same desire as you to tear down engine to find out why she failed but it just seems my mechanic doesn't share the cost of doing so considering all the aspects. Besides, maybe I can dig into her myself? Maybe I should bring the old core home myself and pull off a few bolts. Hell might be a good educational experience Thanks Lucky! At my ranch here I have a nice little heated shop and altho I'm not a mechanic myself, I do maintain my tractors and have done my share of minor mechanic work on cars and stuff. Just never really got into an engine before myself. Hell at least I know I can't hurt it! Guess it might give me a reason to update my tools with a new set of metric sockets as I have the air comp, airwrenches and the like. (also relates to Cookie's post as well). Cookie shared his thoughts on imported Japanese engines and certainly you can see cookie that Japan Engine Inc is one of the bigger importers and has been in the Bay Area for years. BTW I am a native of the Bay Area born in Oakland and grew up in Hayward. I know the Bay Area well! I'm out that way often as my parents have retired from Hayward to Salinas. My dad was in the car business in the Bay Area for his whole life as a salesman and manager of several dealerships. He just retired a few years ago after spending his last 10-15 years with General Warranty servicing dealers all over the Bay Area. So I am certainly a "Dealer-Brat" Thanks for the good advice Cookie on bringing the core home as I kind of shared my thoughts about that above with Lucky. Plus AGREE on the things you mentioned about swapping over much of my old engine to the new used engine and replacing the items you noted. After the call to Japan Engine today, they told me that includes my intake manifold! I hope my dealer is up on all this, but I better call dealer Monday and be sure these upgrades are addressed, as Japan Engine says alot of people try and cut costs by just dropping the used engine in the car without taking the time to replace and swap over the good stuff from the original engine. Not to mention the obvious things I mentioned in my last post. That leads to future problems. I'll look you up when I break down that old engine and maybe I can get some help on what to look for! Nice to bump into someone from my old hometown area! subyluvr2212 shared alot of stuff! My first comment is from is first line on reason why the engine failed. Which actually refers to his last line of it may have just been the one in a million thing. At this point I know I shared references already stated above to a previous problem upon hard acceleration which repeatedly let to mis-fire at high passing speed and rpms. After hearing the same thing from mechanic and service manager of how THIS failure may look related, and especially how the mechanic said he heard a few things in the engine prior, it sounds to me like something was already wrong with this engine when I bought the car at 60K, maybe nothing serious, but maybe some previous wear that weakened something to wheareas obviously she failed after being pushed at high rpms in a passing situation where I needed to keep her going even during a mis-fire situation. I hope that after I get the old engine home, and with your help here on this message board, maybe we can come up with a few answers or something. At least the core is mine and I don't have to return it. I do have a pretty good mechanical knowledge and again have done alot of minor mechanical work so I'm sure with the help of others here, WE can break into this old motor and maybe discover just what the heck happened. I just don't think it's worth the hundreds of dollars to pay someone else to do it, especially considering how much I am out right now to get her back on the road. Thanks for the other comments Subyluvr, my mechanic shared some of the same thoughts and his bottom line was "let's move forward and get you back on the road. Sometimes something breaks inside and this looks like what has happened here." Thanks Subyluvr! ShawnW shared some interesting stuff. I had no idea about the 96 EJ22 being so specific stateside as compared to an used Imported Japenese EJ22. I can only hope that after sending the wrong engine the first time and then asking for my Vin that Japan Engine Inc has sent me the right used engine this time. They over the phone today admitted seeings as they are covering the freight of having the other engine re-shipped back to CA from NE and paying for the freight for this next engine to come from CA to NE, reassured me that the engine arriving is a direct match for my car, as the guy even admitted due to the fact they have had to cover all freight costs so far that they have completely lost money on the deal, and I agree. He even admitted the guy on their end probably didn't ask enough detailed questions on exactly what I needed, or the engine dealer who got the engine for me didn't share the correct info with them. The freight one-way is like 125 bucks. The wholesale price for the motor delivered was like 920 bucks (I paid that local engine dealer, a middleman, who got it for me $1120). So Japan Engine is already out $250 bucks for having to re-ship another engine and get the other one back, so I'm sure they must have made sure it's right this time! I appreciate your comments about the intake manifold. As after I read your post, I called Japan Engine today (Yes they were open on Saturday!) and learned YES I MUST keep my old intake, as the Japanese intake is different. It will still mate to the block, but different in operational specs considering Japanese fuels and emissions. I just hope to hell my dealer's mechanic knows my intake MUST be swapped. Japan Engine said alot of the time they will ship the used engine without the intake manifold to ensure it is swapped but sometimes keep the old intake on it to protect the motor during shipping. Boy this stuff is all so new to me and I hope this info provides enlightenment to others going through this. I have learned ALOT!!! Also sounds to me alot of mistakes can happen during an install of an Imported Japanese Used Engine installed here in the states. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Shawn! blitz shared the diff in his earlier post about oil consumption and stuff. I agree with your clarifications Blitz. I always check my oil every 1000 at fillups. I even log the data in my lil service book I keep in the car showing all fuel purchased, mpg, all service and current levels. Guess I'm kindof nutty that way in keeping records. I hope there WILL be an investigation Blitz, even if I end up doing it myself at home. I am just as curious as you as I just dropped 6000 bucks on my roo 2 years ago (used at 60k), pretty much paid full book value for her. Her condition as you look at her is Excellent, thats why I paid full value for her. I think she booked at $6382 in kbb. Gotta love how a roo keeps her value! Plus I did hit a deer last month prior to this engine failure, over $4000 in insurance repairs, including complete right side all new, all repainted, fully repainted hood (which I dropped $780 myself for as deer did not damage hood but had chips and such figured I'd just get her looking all good considering the other improvements), blended left side and all new front bumper fully newly painted. You can see why I have decided to keep her. And why I plan to at least do what I can to tear down that engine myself. I will certainly share those findings when I get the chance to tear the old core down. (References to this above). Thanks again for sharing Blitz. So for now that's it mates! Thank you so much again for all of your insights and advice. I hope this detailed thread will help others that may face an engine failure and replacement especially in an older roo, as far as options and ways to save a few bucks. It has so far been a very rewarding and educational experience for me apart from the hassle and expenses I have suffered. It's nice to have friends that love their cars and share here! I will continue to update this thread until the job is done and I am back on the road with my roo. I am very happy to be a Subaru owner. And so happy I found this site to share our experiences with our roo's and all the friendship that goes along with it. In my short time online here I can certainly see the passion many of you have to your roo's and I'm happy to share that passion with you. OK OK that may have been some heavy words, I'm just writing from my heart as I finish here tonight. This whole chain of events has been very stressful to me..having a place to share and let it go really is has chilled me out during these past weeks, so again Thanks. It's nice to know you are not alone with a problem when you visit here! -Snaffle

Ok, here's the latest scoop on my engine failure. I stopped by the dealer today and found my used engine (From Japan Engine Inc California) had not arrived yet. I had a few minutes to talk to the mechanic who has serviced my vehicle for past 2 years at the dealership. He has been a certified Subaru mechanic for over 30 years. This was the first time I saw him face to face as I always just dealt with the Service techs in the arrival bay prior to this. To get right down to it he told me the car did throw a mis-fire code. They did check the code after all, so the service "tech" was wrong about not checking for a thrown code. He also explained one cylinder was very low compression, yet the engine still ran but was mis-firing badly. He also said he believes the engine had some serious internal damage and it was not worth tearing it down to try to discover what happened, except for curiousity. The fact is the engine is dead and needs replacement. He said tearing it down is just "spinning your wheels" and is just going to cost me more money. Plus stated if you just look at one part of it, you can not know for sure what really happened here. I can see his point on that. I still think it would be interesting to at least pull the timing belt cover. He told me Mobil-1 is superior over dino oils and said after servicing the car the past 2 years himself my 7500 mile interval was not the issue as far as oil breakdown, he commented "you have certainly stayed up to date on all your service". Regarding the past experience of mis-firing at passing, which created a nox sensor code last time, sensor was replaced and he believes THIS engine faiure is NOT related to the past issues. He believes as servicing the engine himself last 2 years, he had heard some pings and uncool sounds in my motor last several oil changes but they were not apparant enough to warrant being overly concerned. Lets remember I bought this car used at 60K so he commented we have no idea on how the engine was maintained prior. He also explained to me that how a ten year old car is going to start becoming an issue to it's other parts...suspension, brakes, exhaust system etc and that many people want to keep holding on to their "original" car because they are so happy with it yet there comes a time when service issues finally become a burdan to keep hanging on to it. I explained I paid book for the car only 2 years ago and at this point considering her overall excellent condition, it just was not worth it to take that loss and upgrade to a new vehicle. Guess he also shared my transmission gasket was beginning to leak. As he was locking up his tool box he started to become shorter and shorter with my questions, as it was quitting time and it is Friday. Bottom line for today was Ok, let's not waste anymore money on the dead engine, let's just get my used engine installed and get back on the road. If prior passing problem mis-fire with check engine light re-appears he concurred we need to address it but does not believe that issue was related or caused this engine failure. I may need to START a new THREAD to discuss..the choice of replacing your failed engine with a Japanese Imported Used Engine. As I have some questions on this issue. Some of my concerns were stated in my earlier posts. Or we can just go on in THIS thread from here, as it is related to the original engine failure. I'd like to hear from the members here I personally took the time to address in my last post as I did individually post specific replies to each member who wrote. In addition the latest post from Dude seems to have been answered and commented on in this post. I will say I am gaining confidence overall from my dealer who has been servicing my roo for the past two years as again they set me up in a brand new 2006 Forester to use during this ordeal without charge. We are on week two of me buying my own used engine, as first one was wrong one shipped and still awaiting the correct one. I just hit 1000 miles on the demo the dealer provided me as it had something like 9 or 93 miles on it when they gave it to me 2 weeks ago to use as a loaner. As far as the Imported Used Engine from Japan, my first concern is what parts from my old engine should be switched over to the used imported used engine? Additionally What parts should I keep from my old engine? I already know the basics as in replace both crank seals, and install a new Timing Belt. I'll be happy to start a new thread on "replacing failed engine with Japan Import" if needbe. The warranty is 6 mos on this used engine but also states to replace waterpump, check radiator pressure, replace temp sensor, replace rad hoses. It states their warranty would be voided if I didnt at least do what I just stated above. Any comments on this? Thanks again fellas. -Snaffle

First off, thanks for all of the new posts. As of today, Still awaiting replacement engine from Japan Engines CA should be here tomorrow (Friday). Overall I still have not personally spoke with THE mechanic who is doing the work, so still relating news from dealer, as in Service Manager. News today includes Dealer giving me some more verbal info on initial status of original engines failure and the fact he told me I could work it out with the mechanic to dig a lil deeper into the failed engine to discover why she failed. Latest is that the old engine is removed from my car and nothing has been done to explore that engine other than the original tests prior to pulling it, so far today I learned failed engine would run after tow to dealer, barely, had a real tight spot at idle. Compression check showed one Cyl was dead (no compression), which leads me to believe why mechanic immediately knew severe internal damage (as previously stated). After we dig deeper maybe we can figure out how the previous engine malfunctions (related to a malf Nox sensor) as stated in my prev posts led to this failure. Lets restate the first replacement used engine that arrived had no EGR on it (wrong engine) so thats why we are waiting for another imported engine with EGR. But for now lets update this thead... The bottom line is the Service Mgr said if I wanted I could dig into my old core and even work out a private deal with the mechanic doing my job to maybe dig into the old engine a lil bit. I'm sure we will get some answers, but for now KNOW replacing the engine is the main goal for now. The original core is mine and I'm just as curious as the rest of you, and am willing to pay a few extra bucks to dig into the old engine a bit to see what failed. Again let's face it, that engine is gone. So now, let's look at the new posts since my last comments and I'll share my response to each post. I'm new here so I have not mastered the code to show quotes, especially from multiple users, so bear with me. I appreciate the comments and hopefully we may discover something here. TheBrian talked about Oil Analysis. He asked what I was using, I use Mobil-1 5-30. I was told by dealer engine is on the floor and no oil has been looked at yet in the core. I will certainly check this when I do my old engine inspection when the job is done at dealership. I am focused now on getting my new (used) engine replaced and get back on the road with my own car before I go deeper into the old engine at this point. Will certainly share my findings. Richierich commented on what is behind timing covers. We will find out when I do an evaluation of my old core. For now we do not know as I have not authorized extra (official) labor to dig deeper into the old motor yet. We'll do a looksee after I get my car back on the road. Comments included terrible noise from maybe just the timing belt area. Engine still ran after tow to dealer, and initial compression check looks like maybe timing belt area may be ok (seeings as stated above 1 cyl had no comp) we'll see when I dig deeper into my old core. Rich also shared about oil breakdown possibilty as in Ref to Nippers post about intervals. Again we don't know how the oil looks yet in failed engine, but I will say in past 3 years (as I put 50K on her during that time) using Mobil-1 5W-30 I only saw a drop of 1/2 QT or so on stick after 7500, the interval I use considering my mainly highway usage. Will admit prior to this event, I did see a lil oil leakage on floor about 1 month prior to THIS event as she never leaked more than a drop or two prior. Leak drops seemed to recently appear from front of engine at front cover. I have never had to add oil between 7500 mile oil changes. Thanks Rich! blitz commented about how easy a 2.2 was on oil consumption, also asked about my engine being interfearence as far as timing belt failure. My understanding is that THIS engine CAN blow a timing belt and be OK, not an issue here. Unlike the 2.5 engines. He went on to explain how I may have had a jumped timing belt that led to the failure. As a Piston could then bang a valve. Hmm, still possible I suppose. again a examination of timing belt first will reveal if this was an issue in this issue. Let's remember the engine still ran at the dealership after tow. Will report findings on this thread when I finally get a chance to dig into the old core. Recall the timing belt still had 10K before scheduled replacement as it was replaced at 58K thus (120K or so for next replace) Thanks Blitz! cookie had comments about oil usage which revealed Mobil-1 is superior over other oils also commented on how mechanic may have known right away what type of engine failure occurred upon firing her up after tow to dealer. I agree. Also suggested I dig into the old core to find out what really happened. Obviously the compression check showed we have internal damage, so that again clears his apprasial but shows again oil breakdown was probably NOT the issue here. Again I can't wait to look at my old engine and do some inspection! He also commented on the issue of paying to dig deep into old engine rather than just replacing her. As I have stated, best choice is to go ahead and let's get another engine. I'll pay something to dig deeper into the old engine, but for now let's focus on getting my car back on the road. It does cost to have someone dig into your failed engine! Dealer made that clear. Once you know you have a dead engine, unless you wanna spend bucks or dive into it yourself, just let it go and move forward. I personally wanna find out what the hell happened and am willing to pay a few bucks more to find out. Thanks cookie! Finally 1 Lucky Texan dropped a quick line of doing a compression check which was previously done but unknown to me when I first posted my first thread here. Also suggested inspection of Cam timing and droppin the pan. I hope to do at least that Lucky even if I have to twist a bolt myself to discover how my '96 Roo Legacy Wagon could have this kind of failure at 107K! remember I got her at 60K in 2002. In closing for Tonight, Thank You again for all of Your Comments!! I still want to eventually address the repeated problem I stated in earlier posts (in this thread) regarding the documented and repeated problem at hard acceleration while passing that I still feel may have led to this engine failure especially as if you read my earlier posts, This issue almost mimicked the prior unusual condition just before this failure due to the fact that I had to keep speed up THIS time, unlike the other times when I backed off the gas. I still believe there may be an electronic problem that may lead to a unbalanced engine condition that throws the engine off time so badly that continued high RPM's will lead to a mechanical engine failure if the driver does not immediately back off the gas. I think my prior posts in this THREAD will give you the details into that belief. I will certainly be aware of that issue upon getting my car back with its' new (used) engine. As for now I openly accept your comments on this whole issue and will update as I can. -Snaffle

With all due respect to Nipper's last post, Considering how many people run engines 10's of thousands of miles with no engine failure because of the the fact they never change their oil regularly , let alone I used Mobil-1 which is way above "regular" oil standards, there is no way I am convinced that regularly changing my oil at 7500 intervals from when I got the car at 60k to 109k as prescribed by Subaru in it's owners manual where it just states 7500 is ok for even using "standard oil", that the interval I chose of changing my oil at 7500 interval considering my usage of the vehicle had any adverse affect on this issue. I would be open to other comments. Open highway driving is the least taxing on an engine. In my 50 mile one-way each day I stop and start maybe 4 times, no idling and stop and start activity. Even if I were using regular oil I would be in accordance to Subaru's standards of a 7500 mile oil changes considering my usage of my vehicle, let alone I'm using an oil that is designed for 10,000 miles even if on schedule one of the manufacturer's requirements. Considering the history of how reliable the Subaru engine is, I could have run her on the same regular motor oil for the time period stated above without one change and never suffered an engine failure "due to motor oil breakdown" as suggested by nipper, especially total miles of 109K on the engine. If the 2.2L engine would fail because of oil breakdown because I chose a 7500 mile interval as indicated in the Subaru Owner's Manual for my usage why don't we hear of a complete failure report from Subaru? Hell they got oils now guaranteed for 10,000 miles between changes. Even my authorized dealer told me 7500 was standard for my type of driving, let alone I used Mobil-1 which he commented I could have gone 10K between changes and that that was not the issue here. We have come along way from the old V-8's that needed an oil change every 3 months or 3,000 miles. Especially with today's modern synthethic oils and modern engines. I would hope this thread would lead to a more realistic result. But again I appreciate all input. I could go on on how I got 350K on a GM that I did 6K oil changes on in the past 5 years as per owners manual and never had a engine problem. Hell I sold her cause the body rusted so bad. So please don't give me the "Oh you gotta change your oil every 3k stuff", ok? READ THE OWNERS MANUAL. Unless you want to support all the little oil change businesses in your area that is hoping you'll come in and spend 30 bucks every couple months. Again I respect Nippers opinion, as we are all entitled to an Opinion. I may be a new user here but I have owned and operated cars since 1972. I am not a mechanic. This is not an oil issue, let's move forward please and address the details I have described. I really don't want this thread to be a debate on how often we should change our oil. Changing Oil is one of the biggest scams in our country. Not to mention a waste of our resources, because of ignorance. Please. -Snaffle

91Loyale, Engine has been removed as dealer was prepping car for new (used) engine as mentioned above. Thanks for sharing a blinking light indicates computer can't deal with the situation, as during the incident I explained, I felt something was bad big time, but had to continue, forcing her to keep going. I have not yet been able to inspect the failed engine. The experience just before I was able to pull off the road..Blinking check engine light, intense vibration from engine compartment as if she was off-time or missing badly (the whole car was vibrating badly), and then a deep grinding sound after I slowed after the pass and tried to accelerate, almost like a sound of a "fan blade hitting the housing" or "old time experiences of an engine knocking badly after using low octane fuel" as if timing advance in older model cars was not working. Like I said earlier, Dealer got the engine to run badly after it was towed to dealership but mechanic heard sounds deep internally indicating it was coming from around the camshaft. At this point, I again wonder if the engine running wrong and then forcing high RPMS may have led to this engine failure. And will it happen again with my new (used) engine if there is repeated problem in the electronics of my car that "told" the engine to run bad and thus created engine failure because I could not back off the gas at a moment of clearing traffic to avoid a potential accident? It may have been just a bad engine that could not handle the heavy load thus leading to the computer activating the check engine light in that situation due to it's mechanical condition. I guess this issue has not been documented much as a typical result or problem. I'll do my best to find out what I can find in the old core, even if I have to bring the core home and open her up myself. (I'm not a mechanic). I do have the old engine tho as I don't need to return the core. I may seek advice on what to look for or whether this whole deal is worth digging in to. Thanks again, -Snaffle

Thanks Nipper, I was told Mobil-1 is a good choice to use. Considering I got the car at 60K and this whole thing happened at at around 109K I can't believe using Mobil-1 and following Subaru's recommended interval of 7500 per oil change (using regular oil) could have been an issue here. I will re-address this issue as to the previous engine problems that may have led to the premature engine failure in a new thread as I think something else may have led to this failure, such as computer changing timing due to a sensor failure and then continuing driving at high RPMS while engine was running out of time, almost forcing an engine failure due to trying to make her work while a problem was happening. remember the symptom of engine running bad with warning light had happened in 3 previous instances, this was the first time I needed to force continued operation at high speed to avoid an potential accident unlike previous times when I was able to back of the gas and RPM's and slow her down. Previous check engine code after one of those instances was failure of Nox Sensor which was replaced just 5k prior to this incident. This incident was the first time I tried to use hard acceleration after that sensor was replaced. (Hard Acceleration=passing at say 70-80 MPH while original speed was like 65 MPH at 5k RPM or so at the new speed) Symptoms were similar as in previous instances just before engine failure, only thing different was I needed to keep going this time at high rpm (5k or so) to avoid a potential accident, as in I needed to pass to avoid head on as I could not back down as another vehicle was also passing just behind me, knowing she was running bad with warning light blinking. We barely made it. I may have forced a failure running her at high RPM while engine malfunction was occurring. Altho Dealer says you can't blow an engine even if the computer has changed the timing or the engine was electronically not running correct. I wonder? Again thanks for the reply! -Snaffle

Hey Guys, Thanks for all your posts on my thread here. I was very busy dealing with the situation so here is a quick update. I am getting a used engine for replacement through Japan Engines CA, imported from Japan these engines should have between 35-45K miles. I think this is the best choice at this time. Rebuilds nearly total the car as would be rebuilding the original or buying a new roo engine. This engine is 1200 bucks delivered. Dealer is doing the install and loaned me a new 06 Forester without charge while work is being done, free's me from the $150/wk for a rental! I have already put 800 miles on her! Nice Ride! Failed Core is mine, no return necessary, so I'll be happy to see what the heck happened, at least check the timing belt and all. I have kept the car fully maintained Mobil-1 every 7500, and all other service at correct intervals. I have only had the car since 2002 (60K used). I run my roo to work and back 100 miles daily, all easy highway miles, and not high speed. Timing belt was due in another 10k as it was replaced at 58K just before I bought her in 2002. Engine still runs but deep internal clunking, like maybe cam shaft according to certified roo mechanic. said not worth them tearing her open as the cost is better applied to just replace with a used engine. Dealer allowing me to purchase engine myself to avoid their mark-up. Sounds like dealer is being cool to me, this after getting much more from Service Mgr rather than Desk tech. Dealer price to install about 1K, most other shops in town can't beat it by more than 100 bucks, so going with dealer to install. Will update this thread upon learning any new data. As a new user here, Thanks so much for the quick feedback!! I'm happy to join your family of roo owners here! Would Like to discuss the symptoms that led to this premature engine failure in a new thread when I get some time. Maybe inspecting failed engine will answer some questions on what happened. -Snaffle

Got a 96 legacy wagon 2.2L, tried to pass another vehicle, check engine light flashed as I was trying to pass, then felt it was off time..max rpm was 5000, then lost power, heard grinding sound. Now told my engine is Gone from authorized Subaru dealer. I have got 107K miles, babied her her whole life. They wouldn't even run a computer check on her, told me after tow to my local dealer from the failure on the interstate not worth it to check codes, as when they got it from the tow and tried to start her, sounded like internal engine failure. They say I need a new engine, all service done her whole life, is this possible? same passing thing happened a few times, they told me (the dealer) not to worry about it..as check eng light would go away after a few days. what the hell? -Prince