OB99W
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Everything posted by OB99W
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Although Subaru engines can go that far, it could be tired if not well-maintained. Is there any visible smoke (under any circumstance) at the tailpipe? If you're seriously considering swapping the engine, throwing parts at the current one may not be the way to go. Interesting results. The "co-co2 6" doesn't make sense to me. A CO+CO2 measurement is sometimes used to determine what is called "sample dilution"; an emissions test result wouldn't be valid if there's a leak or other reason that air is mixing with the exhaust gases. In that case, CO+CO2 less than 6% might cause the test to be ended, while anything over that considered enough to continue testing. If indeed 16.08% is a CO+CO2 measurement on your car, and the CO was 2.38%, then at that time the CO2 was about 13.7% (16.08 minus 2.38). That's in the range of possibility; a well-running engine exhausts somewhat over 14% CO2. High HC is often due to unburned fuel in the exhaust and can be caused by lean misfire (vacuum leaks, dirty injectors, etc.) or ignition problems (bad wires, coil, etc.). It can also be from a worn engine allowing oil to get burned (that's why I asked about visible smoke). High CO is typical when the mixture is too rich. If the ECU runs open-loop even if the engine is warm, that could do it. If the gas mileage is particularly poor, that could be an indicator. Since both HC and CO are high, the car has 224,000 miles, and you don't know its history, it's certainly possible that the cat is dead. Replacing the cat might get the car to pass inspection if it's bad, but if the engine is letting unburned fuel or burned oil get to the cat it might not last for long.
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You're welcome. I've found that being thorough often reduces the number of back-and-forth posts considerably. In this particular case, the "test lights" are built in , and I thought taking advantage of that might lessen troubleshooting time. Speaking of being thorough, one other thing that can sometimes cause the "door ajar" warning problem is an incorrectly installed (usually, after-market) alarm system.
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Cougar is correct that the hatch door switch is part of the latch assembly. The switches that actuate the warning light on the dash are the same ones that turn on the overhead interior lights. It should therefore be possible to determine for certain whether a passenger door or the rear hatch door is the culprit. First, make sure that switches on the overhead light units are in the "Door" position (not "Off" or "On" positions). Then verify that opening/closing a passenger door operates the passenger compartment overhead light (Subaru usually calls that the "room light"). If the "room light" goes off with all the passenger doors closed, but the dash warning light is still on, then it isn't indicating a passenger door is ajar. (If the "room light" switch is in the "Door" position, but the "room light" remains on with all the doors closed, that's what has to be investigated.) Assuming the passenger door circuit is okay, the hatch door switch is the next thing to check. Make sure there is nothing that would stop the hatch door from fully closing; the latch switch is very sensitive to the hatch door being only slightly ajar. Next, open the hatch door and then close it hard, and check whether the dash warning light and "luggage room light" have gone out. If not, the latch switch may be faulty, there may be a wiring short, or the latch may not be operating correctly. One more test can be done before disassembling anything; open the hatch, and actuate the latch mechanism manually, using a screwdriver or something similar. Look at the dash warning light and "luggage room light" again; if out, the latch switch may be okay, but the mechanism not latching correctly. If you've actuated the latch with the hatch door open, be sure to operate the hatch door opening lever/handle so that the mechanism unlatches before trying to close the hatch door. It's also remotely possible that there's a problem with the circuit that turns on the dash warning light itself. Hope that helps. Please let us know what you determine.
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Mike, it may not be your fault, and I can get you off the hook (well, sort of ) . I just checked my copy of Roget's Thesaurus, and in section 308.20 both "drain" and "purge" are listed; apparently Roget thinks they're interchangeable terms! (I assume, therefore, that Peter Roget never worked on a Subaru. ) Thanks for getting back to us; it's nice to find out what the resolution was. I'm glad we could help, even if the path was a bit convoluted. Congratulations on the repair, and have a nice ride!
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Randomly changing parts not only may not fix a problem, but if generic ones that don't quite match OEM specs are used that can sometimes cause difficulties that weren't there before. Previous to OBD-II (before '95 models), on-board diagnostics was limited. However, it's a possible starting point; any significant fault should light the CEL (is it lit?). There's good info here on pre-OBD-II models, including how to retrieve trouble codes: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/EWPreOBDAug05.pdf
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True, and in the case of P0446, which is supposed to set based only on electrical characteristics, it indeed shouldn't matter. However, sometimes determining if a failure occurs or not with systems warm (and what the "snapshot" looks like, if the code does set) can be useful. Some electrical failures only show within a range of operational temperatures, and determining if that's the case can help in diagnosis. It's mentioned on the first page ("18") of the Endwrench article I linked to in post #47 of this thread. I agree; relax Mike, most of us here will admit to having goofed on occasion, and the rest are probably lying (umm, I mean "the rest may have short memories") .
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If anyone hasn't seen them already, the following links might prove interesting. I think they provide some insight into the complexities of OBD-II, readiness, and what sort of things can cause strange behavior. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/OBDEWWin05.pdf , page 20 in particular. http://www.autocenter.weber.edu/OBD-CH/presentations/Moye-VT.pdf PA inspection specifics, including that 1996-2000 models can have two readiness monitors incomplete and still continue with inspection: http://www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/drivecleanpa/service/IM_update_v5n2.pdf Inspection flow chart, detailing procedure if there's a readiness problem: http://www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/drivecleanpa/service/obd2flowcharts.pdf
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Readiness is dependent on particular drive cycle requirements being met. Assuming that the car has been driven sufficiently to have met the requirements (and that would probably be the case by now), then it would appear that at least one parameter for both the Catalyst and Evap Sytem monitors is not meeting what the ECU expects to see, or the ECU is misreading a sensor, etc. For example, if the ECU saw the engine temp as being too low, it would keep operation "open loop", and even if all the other parameters met a drive cycle requirement, the report would still be "incomplete". I'm not saying that's actually what's happening -- the long term fuel trim, being only a few percent positive (I didn't see a "-" sign in the data), indicates a slight increase of the injector "on" duty cycle that typically would be offsetting a somewhat lean average condition. That wouldn't be what's expected if running open loop longer than usual. As Nipper suggested, fully warming the engine, clearing codes, and then seeing what "freezes" when the P0446 is set might be interesting. By the way, engine load is calculated by dividing airflow by peak airflow; bad sensor data, vacuum leaks, or true loads on the engine (even a battery that's down and has the alternator working harder than usual) can cause the load percentage to go one way or the other from "normal".
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delayed lock up
OB99W replied to nipper's topic in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
I don't know offhand why a '97 (phase 1) 4EAT and matching TCU would behave the way you're describing. The phase 2 units (like my '99) have a shift map that includes downshifting to 3rd if you just tap the brakes while going downhill (to obtain engine braking). Even that wouldn't explain the behavior on a level road. -
delayed lock up
OB99W replied to nipper's topic in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
Is the road level or inclined? If inclined: up, down, how steep? -
Hmmm, I meant to say "set completed/ready"; yours seem to remain stubbornly "incomplete/not ready". If you're putting miles on during which the drive cycle requirements are being met (sufficient engine warmup, road speed, time at that speed, brake usage, time not run, etc.), then this may be indicative of more problems. Even if codes other than P0446 aren't being stored, it still might be worthwhile to look at data from things like the O2 sensors. Did you get a chance to make note of the freeze frame data for the P0446 code?
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The two monitors that haven't "set" yet (Catalyst and EVAP) are typically the ones that have the more stringent criteria. Many of the monitors will set within one drive cycle, but those two may take a few before all the requirements are "hit" during a drive. The EVAP may or may not relate to the P0446 you're seeing, but I suspect that you still have only the problem causing that code.
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If the original mechanic was "reputable", we probably wouldn't be having this discussion (although I suppose anyone is entitled to a mistake; hopefully one of this kind very infrequently). I'd be more inclined to have someone else do the repair, and the choice for the first guy would be paying for the repair or facing a suit (perhaps in small claims court). Of course, that would require reasonable proof that the failure was actually due to the first mechanic's incompetence/negligence/whatever; the evidence and/or testimony might not be as easy to obtain as you'd like. Lots of people will point fingers until they're asked to do it in a court of law.
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On second thought, since Mike grounding B134 pin 10 set an additional code (P0443), it seems the ECU must be able to see something related to that pin. That also got me thinking about why P0446 is related to "vent control", but P0443 is a "purge control" code, and yet both are seemingly based on what's happening at the same ECU pin. I sometimes wonder if ECU programming is a bit "unscientific", especially when it comes to the DTCs. I've looked at Subaru info in addition to what Ferret provided, and the diagnostics for other models are basically the same, but sometimes given for code P0447, not P0446. There doesn't seem to be consistency in use of the codes for a particular fault. In fact, other manufacturers indicate that P0446 can be set due to lots of faults other than the condition we've been talking about. Speaking of the PDF Ferret kindly made available, it seems to have (at least) two errors in it. The first is in part 10AJ3; once the harness has been unplugged, if checking for a short to ground, it would seem that "less than 10 ohms" shouldn't be the resistance that would indicate a problem. That would imply that measuring anything greater than 10 ohms would be acceptable (for example, 11 ohms), which of course it isn't. Obviously, the minimum resistance to ground of a disconnected wire should be quite high; Subaru probably meant 10 Mohms, not just 10 ohms. The other is in 10AJ4, where "Is the voltage less than 1 ohm?" should of course refer to resistance. Things like these make me somewhat concerned about the diagnostic procedure using OBD-II codes in general. I suppose that's why at a certain point changing parts becomes a viable approach. As Nipper put it "sometimes you just have to swap them out and find out." Hopefully, you aren't paying dealer list price for the "privilege" .
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Could be, Cougar. I'm not privy to the ECU's internal B134 pin 10 circuit, but you've got to figure that it's an I/O situation; it's apparently monitoring the voltage, as well as being the pull-down for the valve's coil. Certainly if the pin connection isn't being made at the ECU, it would fit both conditions Mike has experienced -- the ECU wouldn't see the DC coming through the valve's coil, and it also wouldn't be able to pull the pin low. Just a thought.
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Perhaps, but before going there I have yet another question: To retrieve the DTCs, are you using a full-functioned scan tool, or just a code reader? If it's a scan tool, it should allow you to obtain freeze frame data related to set codes. If you can do that, let us know what that data is (since only one code is being set, the frozen data should relate directly to the conditions that particular code was set under). That info may (or may not, unfortunately) help pinpoint what's going on.
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If it "spits", that usually indicates that there's spark, but not the quality or timing of it. Since you didn't go into detail, I don't know what procedure you used to ensure correct re-timing, how much disassembly you did, etc. The following two articles have some very useful info, so if you haven't read them fully before, it might be worthwhile. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2Liter.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf Note especially info about the relationship between reluctors and position sensor, and the precaution about possible bleed-down of HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) if you've moved things a lot. It may also be that when the engine was mistimed and not firing, it flooded. Then it could be difficult to start even with the timing corrected. I'd suggest verifying the belt installation and then trying to start again. The HLAs may require a bit of cranking to pump back up if the've bled down. If there's a possibility of flooding, try cranking with the accelerator pedal floored; that can "unload" any excess fuel.
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No, and I'm sorry if I left you with that impression. What I was trying to say is that it wouldn't be open with the ignition switch just "ON", if the engine wasn't running. Even with the engine running, the ECU still decides when to open the valve. Do let us know what happens when you get the chance to check things as I suggested. Not necessarily. Ferret pointed out the pitfalls of using an ohmmeter, and even a voltmeter can lead to false conclusions under certain circumstances. The main thing one has to appreciate is that a voltmeter is purposely designed to have a high internal resistance (and therefore draw minimal current) in order to limit its influence on circuit operation. The problem with that is when you're looking for a resistive connection (or corroded wire, etc.) by voltage drop, unless the circuit itself is drawing current, you may not see it. (Ohms Law says that a voltage drop is equal to the current flowing through a resistance times that resistance. Even very high resistance won't cause a significant drop if the current drawn isn't sufficient.) The other factor is that corrosion can lead to intermittent contact that often changes just by moving things. Oxidation can be broken down by movement (or sufficient current), but reform in a while. You might measure low resistance, but still have a problem a bit later. I'm glad that he does. I also do component-level repairs when it's merited. Often, the cost of a replacement electronic module, or sometimes availabilty issues, are good motivators . It's also a good idea from an ecological standpoint.
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Okay, thanks, that allows me to look at the correct wiring diagram. The relays have to be energized for any headlight usage on the model in question; if brights work in "flash" mode, the relays are operational. Cougar's info is correct; completing a ground connection is what the switch does to energize the relay coils. If that isn't happening with the switch in the headlight position, then either the switch is bad or the blu/blk wire connected to it is the culprit.