reeze

Great, thanks!

I haven't been back to Autozone since I cleared my codes. The check engine light did NOT come back on after I cleared, and I drove multiple trips, on & off the highway. Are there codes thrown that don't light the check engine light? I originally got a PO303 (misfire in cylinder 3), does that light the check engine light? I replaced the plugs & wires so that may have cleared that one. Thanks for the other tips about checking the coil. I did just buy a manual, I think it was Chiltons not Haybes though. I'll look in there to see if they have any methods to check the coil.

How do you test that? I did the only thing I knew, popped the hood at night while the engine was running rough and looked for arcing, didn't see any.

Thanks, this is a good tip. Several clues have pointed to a problem in the fuel system. My car usually starts easily and idles OK, especially if it's been off a while. Several times it has stalled (after I've been driving it a while) and then it's been impossible to start for about 5 to 15 minutes. I was thinking it was related to some overheating condition, but the temp gauge is always normal. Could it be flooding caused by a bad fuel pressure regulator I wonder? Should I be smelling unburned fuel if this was the case?

The body is not in good shape, but it's cosmetic and I'm not seeing any overt rust. Interior is OK though. Because I put about 28K/yr on a car, I'd rather find a car with 60 - 80K on it, and not more than 8-9 yrs old; that'll give me a few years to run it into the ground Unfortunately for me, those kinds of Legacys all fit into the dreaded head gasket failure territory. Unless there exists somewhere a low-miles '99 or 2000 legacy with the 2.2L motor it looks like I may have to bail on Subaru if I ultimately decide not to fix this car (which is where I'm leaning). If I fix my car I'll just be putting off this issue for a little while. Best of luck with your hunt. The '96 with 95K sounds pretty good if you can deal with getting a new tranny in it. Hope it doesn't have the 2.5 though...

The closest store is about an hour away. Maybe I can find this at a local auto parts store though?

Cool, thanks! I hope the instructions are designed for noobs like me! Also the description says it doesn't work with several brands, I assume the Sub is not one of those (Bosch, CIS-Jetronic).

Thanks for the input and the tip regarding the fuel pump. Someone else mentioned the possibility of a sticky fuel pressure regulator. I've been driving the car and it's getting worse. It runs rough almost all the time, and the incidents where it loses power (are these misfires? shows you what I know!) are still happening, maybe 4-5 times during a 20 minute ride. The check engine light has still not come back on since I cleared the codes. Is it possible the ECU is throwing any of my original codes (PO420 -- cat converter or o2 sensor, 400 -- EGR, 303 -- misfire in cylinder 3) and the check engine would NOT light? BTW the car, when cold, always starts up right away and most of the time it idles nicely, but when these issue start I do notice sometimes the tach going up & down a bit (and this is when the car is likely to stall)...so the fuel pressure regulator, or the pump itself, is sounding more like the culprit. I wish I had the test equipment to check this out but I don't. And again, when I made it home tonight, both fans are going, which may or may not be normal. Temp gauge never gets beyond the middle though. Now, the missing gasket: you'll notice that BOTH the plugs on the left don't have them. As I explained in my original post of this thread, those came out separately -- I guess they were stuck in the spark plug well. I got them out before installing the new plugs of course!

Slim pickings right now for Legacy sedans with 60-75K miles in my area. Most are wagons, and it seems like I would need to go for a '99 or '98 if I wanted the 2.2L. That's a little older than I like, but I haven't seen any of those anyway. So maybe I'll be forced to re-think my plans and fix mine, hope it holds up, and keep an eye out for one that best fits my needs.

Thanks John, I appreciate the reply. I can see that in the short term fixing this car is cheaper than buying another one but -- unless I'm completely misunderstanding here -- after this car is fixed I'll be down probably $400 or more, have a 15 year old car with 206K needing a timing belt and probably other stuff, and if I'm lucky I'll get another year or two (I put about 28K/yr on a car). Cost per mile-wise, I can see how I'd be ahead if I fix this one -- I paid $3400 5 years ago, that was a serious bit of luck. But the simple fact is that I want peace of mind too. I'm a musician and I drive a lot to gigs, late at night. I carpool kids to school every day and take care of my 9-yr-old after school. I'm not in the position, financially or time-wise to deal with an older car prone to issues. Car repair in my area is very expensive. I know I could get lucky, fix the current problem, do the timing belt and get another year or two but I've been buying Legacys mainly because they've been trouble-free (all of them had the 2.2 engine though, something I may have to give up if I get another one). My first two Legacys went to about 180K each, cut short by accidents. This is the most miles I've ever driven a car. So yes, even if I pay $600 to fix this car and it dies one week later, my cost per mile is still low -- but then I have $600 less towards my next Leg!

Thanks, yea I was thinking about having a Subie shop look at the car. The question is not if a good shop could diagnose & fix the car. It's whether it's worth it for me to fix a car this old with this many miles. If I made that commitment, I would then probably need to do a second timing belt, and then there's potentially more that can start going wrong on a car this old. If I had the knowledge and mechanical aptitude of many on this forum I'd probably go for it, but that's just not the case . I think it may be better for me to take the money I'd put into repairs and put it towards a new(er) Legacy. I would up selling my previous Legacy (a '92 FWD) to someone on this forum who saw my posts here 5 years ago when I was asking the same type of question -- fix or move on -- although that one had been in an accident and had some major cosmetic issues (the engine was doing fine though). Anyone wanna make me an offer? It has some body damage and the engine leaks some oil, but the heads seem intact and when it's not exhibiting its current symptoms it runs as fine as any car with 206K can (imo of course!). Unfortunately it looks like the end of the line for me being able to get a Legacy newer than '99 or so with a 2.2 engine. Do they exist?

Thanks for these tips but my check engine light has stayed off since I cleared the codes last night. And I just recently changed the plugs & wires. I did a fair amount of driving today, some around town & some highway. I know the EGR code is a "multi-trip" but I really think I satisfied the criteria for triggering the check engine light (two trips going 55 mph for a while) and it's still off. The car is still -- intermittently -- running like crap. Tomorrow I'll get the codes read again at Autozone -- in case there are codes thrown that don't trigger the check engine light -- and depending what is read I may just call it a day and start looking for another car. I can't afford to go on a $400+ fishing expedition with a 15-year old car with 206K, and start replacing parts simply hoping I luck out and fix the right one. Today I brought the car to a buddy's house to put on his ramps so I could get a better look underneath. The O2 sensor is not very accessible at all, I'm not sure I could tackle this. I also brought the car to my wife's mechanic who warned me that it was probably not going to be cheap to fix -- about $200 to read the codes and spend an hour diagnosing. And that's before any parts & the labor to install or replace. I trust this guy, he's honest but not cheap (car repair in general is very expensive in the northern NY suburbs. The local Sub dealer gets $104/hr labor). The bottom line is that I've gotten way more than my money's worth from this car. Bought it five years ago with 60K, for $3400! Show me any Legacy today with 60K on it for that cheap, I don't think one exists. Thanks to everyone who's spent the time reading my super-long posts (this one being no exception ) and trying to help me out. I may have a few more questions after tomorrow, but it does look like the end of the road is approaching!

Thanks! Your post came in while I was composing my last reply. I will attempt to do as you suggest -- I have a small multimeter. Not sure how I'll put 12 volts to it though. I can tell you this: before the engine was at temp, opening & closing the throttle had no effect on the EGR piston. After the engine was warmed up, doing the same thing, I could see the valve move in & out. Does this indicate correct operation?

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess that's good news that the odd-looking spark plug doesn't look that bad. It seems strange that it wore differently though, unless it it was gapped differently from the others as your reply suggested. To complicate things a little more, I just got back from running a few errands. About six trips in all, three of those on the highway going 55- 60 mph, and the check engine light has stayed OFF (as I said in my first post, I reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery overnight). So now I'm getting no codes at all. The first trip I took, driving my daughter to school, the rough running returned almost right away. However, every subsequent trip the engine behaved well (or seemed to anyway). One weirdness (which I've mentioned in my previous threads) is that when I got home I noticed the radiator fan running. I waited a while for it to cycle off but it didn't. The top radiator hose did seem pretty hot, but temp gauge never went above normal. I'm on my way to a friend's place, he has ramps. Gonna put the car up and look underneath for any clues (I also want to see how many wires the O2 sensor has, in case I get an aftermarket. Yes, I've read the posts saying to use OEM, and I might still do that if I'm reasonably sure it's part of my rough running issue. My local Subie dealer wants $145 for it). Still grappling with the question of when I should cut my losses with a 15-year old car with close to 206K on it.

Interesting, thanks. I did expect it to be #3 since that's the code I got for the cylinder misfire. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Hi everyone it's me again, and this is probably the final chapter of my saga. Third thread on here detailing my efforts to diagnose & fix my 95 Legacy FWD w/205K, 2.2L engine. To make a very long story short(er), it's throwing 3 codes: P0420 -- cat converter or O2 sensor issue P0400 -- EGR system (blocked, or failed EGR valve) P0303 -- misfire in cylinder 3 Symptoms are, the car runs OK most of the time but will then start running very rough & lose power. Twice it has stalled and was unable to be started for a while -- this sounds like overheating although the temp gauge never went above normal and coolant levels look OK. Definitely a mystery to me, maybe there's another reason the car wouldn't start until it cooled down. The exhaust does smell a little rich. No steam or obvious oil coming out though. Oil looks OK, the coolant looks a little "dirty" but still greenish. So far I have done plugs, wires, PCV valve and fuel filter. Another user on here (ryverrat) wrote a great reply on one of my previous threads about a stuck EGR valve being a likely culprit. I checked it by working the diaphragm back & forth. At first it was a little hard to move but then seemed to loosen up -- or maybe I just started pushing harder, I can't be sure :-\. Saw some instructions for checking the EGR operation in a repair manual I bought -- brought the car to temp, then worked the throttle to raise & drop the rpms, I could see the EGR valve going in & out. So it does not look stuck. Wondering what could cause that code then. I know this is pretty unlikely, but I was thinking of going to Autozone to see if the EGR code cleared (I left the battery disconnected all night, and I'll make two trips going over 50 mph for at least a few minutes each.) I was also getting ready to do the front O2 sensor but have been doing more reading online and now I'm starting to think it may be time to look for another car. Reason is that one of the old plugs I took out showed -- I **think** -- evidence of fouling which means an internal engine problem that may not be worth fixing in a car this old with this many miles. Yesterday I took a picture of the old plugs, which I marked as I took out, and I'm hoping someone with more experience than I (which is everyone on this board ) might be able to give me a more informed opinion): Notice the lower left plug, it looks way different from the other three. I do not know the correct cylinder numbers so my first real question is -- is this one #3? That would correspond to the misfire code. (BTW you don't see gaskets on the two left plugs but they were there, just came out separately). I suppose my second real question is -- am I correct in guessing that there is oil getting into this cylinder, and if so does that indicate an internal (and expensive) engine issue? If that's the case, it may not be worth throwing any more $$ at this car. Thanks to everyone that takes the time to read my long posts and help me with their replies!

ryverrat, I can't thank you enough for the mountain of information you've given me. I printed it out & will be referring to it in the next week, as I try and fix this car. It's really all my fault as I neglected to do almost all the regular maintenance except oil & filter changes. The car just ran great and I got complacent. The check engine light has been on for a while, so I'm a little concerned the misfiring may have been going on long enough to damage the cat, although I can honestly say that I never detected anything wrong with how the car was running (until it started running rough in the last week, of course). After a while I assumed it was a bad sensor causing the light. If I'm lucky, it'll turn out to be one of the other codes, not the misfire, that got turned the light on. I have to say that one of the old spark plugs looked noticeably different from the other three so I guess there was something going on in one of the cylinders. I was tentatively planning on replacing the front o2 sensor next, however I will first check the EGR valve to see if it's stuck as you suggest. I've been driving around town the last few days and about 98% of the time it does fine. Once in a while the rough running & loss of power kicks in and lasts for 5 seconds to a minute or so. One thing I notice is that when I first start the car the exhaust is smoky (but not dark, like oil burning, and no coolant smell -- just smoky). I have seen a small amount of water at the end of the tailpipe too. After I drive the car a while, I stop & idle the engine, then check the tailpipe- no smoke, no moisture. Not sure if this is normal or not. Again, I really appreciate the detailed explanation of my codes and your tips on cleaning the EGR valve. That is one fairly expensive piece and I'm not sure I have the skill to replace it myself. Thanks!!

All day the car was running nicely. Still I decided to take a train into NYC, didn't want to chance getting stuck on the cross-bronx expressway at 2AM. On the way to the station I call my wife and leave a message, "honey, it looks like the car is fixed!" As soon as I hung up the phone, the engine starts running rough and losing power! Someone up there has a warped sense of humor.:-\ The front o2 sensor sounds like a good candidate for the next thing to try. I'm seeing a very wide range of prices, from aftermarket universals around $30 to over $100 for OEM. I have a buddy with jack stands, the weather is getting a bit warmer, and my hands are already chewed up so what's a little more pain?

I've been very complacent when it comes to maintenance. I was so used to my Legacys (this is my 3rd) hardly ever needing service that I slacked off. Oil changes, tires & brakes have been about it. I think I did the air filter once. These older models with the 2.2L just worked, period. Now I realize that if I want this car to make it to 250K or maybe higher, I need to baby it a little. Next in line is the timing belt. I did it at around 100 or 110K, and I'm overdue now. It could probably use struts too, but around where I live that's at least an $800 job, and I have to ask myself how much it's worth to put that kind of money into a car with these many miles. That's something that might come up more often now, unfortunately.

Thanks. This sensor has not been changed since I bought the car, 5 years ago, with 60K miles. Now I'm at 205K! I remember looking into this at one point this past week. It's screwed into the exhaust manifold, correct? Chances are it needs more than a rachet or box end wrench to get out, as long as it's been there!

This morning I replaced the fuel filter and PCV valve. Just got back from about 1.5 hrs of driving, stop & go around town and a stretch on the highway. Not a hiccup. The engine sounds like a purring cat when I'm idling. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Thanks again to everyone that took the time to post to my two threads and help me!

Thanks Crash321 & Davebugs, I'm off to the parts store.

I know this makes me sound real stupid, but I am not at all certain of exactly which hoses are for vacuum. Also, are they a standard size (inner or outer diameter) that I can just buy a few feet of and cut to size as needed? I see LOTSA hoses in that engine compartment!

When I bought this car 5 years ago, I specifically looked for a Legacy with the 2.2 engine because I heard it was very reliable, and I read that the 2.5s had head gasket issues. To do the plugs I had a swiveling rachet, a 3" "wobble" extension, and four other extensions ranging from 1 inch to about 8 inches long. So I was pretty well covered. Still, the spark plug nearest the driver (sorry, don't know cylinder #s!) was a bit@h to do because of the hoses and wires around it, and the windshield washer reservoir. Of course this engine compartment probably looks empty compared to the newer Subies .

Well maybe it isn't this regulator after all. My car idles normally. The rough running seems to happen only while I'm moving. At least that's what I'm noticing so far. Tonight on my way home I had another small episode of momentary rough running & loss of power. It lasted about 5 seconds. Tomorrow night I have a long drive to do, very late at night, on back roads -- not sure if there's even cell reception. So I am a little concerned.