skibumm100

OB99W, Thanks for the link. Mine seems to smell like fuel year-round. Not so much when the car is warmed up, which falls in line with the endwrench article. I'm not sure I agree 100% with the sentiment of the article but I guess it gets people off their back. Excess fuel is just that, excess. I know it needs to be richer for a cold start but my other cars start, run and drive w/o stalling or stumbling...but don't give off that intoxicating scent. Sorry, worked at a gas station way back...before vapor recovery hoses...a little brain damaged ....but not too much.:-\

You know, I think you're right again. I had the key on, engine off and I unplugged the connector and plugged it back in and it didn't go "click". I tapped on it but still no "click". Are they pretty much the same from year to year?

Hey nipper....the evap solenoid finally threw the code. PO 443. In the process of troubleshooting the code, I found that I had no vacuum back at the solenoid. I checked the line at the engine compartment and it had good vacuum. I checked the line where it comes through the floor under the rear seat and it had good vacuum. Nothing on the other side at the valve. I replaced that section with emission/fuel hose. Still have the code. After thinking about it for about 15 seconds I realized that the computer doesn't know if the evap system is working or not. It can only tell if the solenoid is shorted or open. Well..... it's neither. I checked the resistance with an ohm meter and it was in spec. I also had 12VDC at the plug with the key on, engine off. It's still throwing the code so I figured it must not like the valve or the connector is corroded. I bet the fuel smell is happening because there was no vacuum back there. If the valve is cheap, I'll get a new one. If it's expensive, I'll try to clean the connector.

My manual says not to tow, only transport with all 4 wheels off the ground. Too bad I didn't read that until I had already done it. I didn't have to tow too far. About 15 miles. I didn't seem to cause any damage. Time will tell.

Car is back together and I've been running it around for about a week checking everything out. I changed the tranny input shaft seal while I had the engine out for the timing belt/valve job. Flat towing seems to have done little or no damage. The transmission works as well as it ever did. It's quiet and shifts fine. I checked it for torque bind.....none. I would not recommend flat towing and won't do it again but, at least for now, it doesn't seem to have caused any serious damage. I'll let you know in 60,000 miles or so.

OK, I reset the valve clearances. Put it back together. Started it up and it made a little noise. Then it made a lot of noise. Then it stumbled, made a racket and and quieted down again. I shut it down. Took it apart again and found it had spit out a shim and broke it in half. I think the bucket had a burr or something and hung up allowing enough clearance for the shim to fall out. While it was falling out, the cam came around and caught it and broke it in half. I started over and measured all of the lashes again. Wierd. On one valve I measured the valve lash. Measured the shim, calculated the required thickness for the new shim, bought it, installed it........and got the same clearance as before. It doesn't make any sense. Now for the bombshell.......I took my digital caliper and measured my feeler gauges. Each feeler gauge was 1.5 to 2 thou thinner than what was labeled on the feeler gauge blade. All of them.... on both sets of feeler gauges I own. I checked a set of "three letters and starts with F" (it's brand name, not a slur) feeler gauges at work. They were also thinner than marked by 1 to 1.5 thou. I had our machinist double check my measurements. Same results. So, in short, I wouldn't get too anal about your valve clearance numbers. Check your feeler gauges before you use them. I expect a lot of people are using feeler gauges that aren't correct. Does anyone have an factual reason as to why the feelers were consistently thinner than marked? I put it back together using a feeler gauge 0.002 thicker than the required measurement. It sounds like I have one vlave that may be too big a clearance. It's a little noisy on cold start up. After it runs for 20-30 seconds it quiets down some and after the car is warm, it's quiet. Can't hear it at all. I'm going to run it for a month or two and then pull the cam covers again and re-check. Then I should be good to go until it get retired.

I found the problem with the stalling. I missed one hose connection. I didn't have the IAC valve hose connected to the air box so the MAF wasn't seeing the airflow going into the IAC. The code it threw was the Evap Canister Solenoid Valve code. I cleared it and it hasn't come back. I think that was the loose gas cap that did that. After connecting the hose, the car will run and not stall. The only idler I didn't replace was the lower left idler because is was fine. All others were replaced. When I installed the belt, all the marks lined up and the tooth count was on the money. New tensioner and pulley, too. My car is a 98 but the tensioner is the old style. Makes me wonder if the engine hasn't been changed. I haven't done a compression check yet. I did pull the PS cam cover and expected to see some shims out, but not the case. I rechecked the valve lash and found several out of spec. I had the valves ground and a couple replaced so I expected some changes after everything settled in. I had one get tighter on me. It's an intake valve and it's only at 0.006". Most of the others got loose. I put the cam cover back on and started it back up and it still clatters like crazy. The DS is pretty quiet. I think I will need to go back and reset all the out of spec valve clearances. Some are 0.013". The first time I set them, the heads were torqued to the block and everything was covered in assembly lube. I suspect the assembly lube has been washed out of the cam bearings and the clearances have opened up slightly. I will be doing it in the car so this should be a lot of fun. I still need to do the comp check.

Update time: The wheels of progress move slowly at my house. I got the engine all apart and took the heads in and had them do a valve job and replace the two bent valves. I bought two more exhaust valves because they looked like they hit the pistons also. It turns out they were not bent when they were checked by the machinist so they were reused. One head was OK but the other was not flat by 0.004 so it was shaved. All the valves were ground and the valve lash was set on the bench. After torqueing the heads in place I checked the valve lash again and found (3) out of spec. I was able to resolve one by swapping a shim from one of the other two that were also out of spec. This left me in need of two shims. My local feeble Subaru dealer said he doesn't have shims in the shop and that they have to order them when they do a valve adjustment. This sounds like total hooey to me but they have been so lame so far that it wouldn't surprise me. I went to work and got some brass shim stock and cut two pieces to fit between the factory shims and the bucket. Checked and double checked the valve lash and it was in spec. Replaced all suspect idlers (all except for one), new water pump, front and rear main oil seals, oil sep plate, tranny input seal, metal heater line, timing belt tensioner and pulley, cam sprocket, etc, etc, etc. Installed the engine and realized I had misplaced or thrown out the old fuel filter. Picked up a new one and cranked it over for a little while with the coil pack plug disconnected to get some oil in it. I tried to start it up. Car sputtered and then fired up. Then stalled. Repeat this a few times. The car throws a code. I remember that I didn't tighten the gas cap. I get the car started but it doesn't want to stay running. There is a clatter coming from the PS cam cover. When I assembled the heads I (and the machinist) used liberal amounts of assembly lube. About the consistency of frozen maple syrup. Is it possible that, due to the cold temps in my garage (around freezing), that the valve buckets could not follow the cam profile fast enough due to friction and allowed too much clearance between the valve shims and the cam lobe and now the shims fell out of the bucket? Also, is there an interlock for oil pressure in the fuel pump circuit that might be killing the engine?

Tire size is the same. Properly inflated. Newer car should be slightly more aerodynamic by its looks, which don't count for much. The speeds are fairly low , < 50 MPH. I'm not sure of the difference in engine spec. Probably a bigger bore. I agree that the engine doesn't suck as much air at lower loads but under part throttle, the engine management system still has a target AFR that it's shooting for. It will tweak the fuel based on O2 readings from the oxygen sensor. Under coast, throttle closed operation, I don't believe it will try to maintain AFR. Under part throttle, it will.

I would expect that my Subaru responds the same as my Saab 9000T's. The best economy is at a speed to keep the car in OD and still maintain speed with the absolute minimum throttle position required. On the Saab's that's about 38 to 45 MPH. Higher speeds require more throttle and therefore more gas. Keep in mind that how well a car coasts has a lot of impact on overall MPG. In my opinion, my Subaru doesn't coast half as well as my 97 Saab 9000T. My 97 9000T doesn't coast as well as my 1990 9000T....don't know why either. The Subaru noticably deccelerates when you take your foot off the gas. This hurts overall MPG. I believe it is one of the reasons why the MPG stinks on my 98 Leggy GT. The other is that it is AWD. I have found that the way you drive has an awful lot of effect on how good your MPG is. My wife consistently gets 3 MPG less than what I do. I consciously use the minimum pressure on the gas pedal to keep the car moving at a consistent speed. I was also disappointed in the MPG difference between my 97 9000T (2.3L) at about 25-26 MPG and my 90 9000T (2.0L) at 30+ MPG over the same route, day in and day out. Same basic car and engine, 5-6 MPG less. That decrease in MPG corresponds to the difference in displacement. This makes sense because more displacement requires more fuel to reach the same AFR. The O2 sensor tells it hom much gas to put in.... more displacement....more fuel. YMMV.

If it's like mine (a '98), it doesn't have hydraulic lifters. It's DOHC with buckets and shims.....no hydraulic lifters.

I'm with SuBrat. Change the tranny fluid a few times before you spend the $750. I thought my trans was toast and a few fluid changes made the torque bind disappear. For how long, no one knows. If it comes back, I'll change the fluid again. It's pretty cheap. My old fluid did not smell burned or anything either so don't go by that. BTW, the service guy at the stealership was sure I needed that part in the back of the trans replaced. Don't take their word for it. Find out for yourself. That was almost a year ago and no torque bind since.

Sounds like two votes for Robbins. I have also contacted a friend who works part-time for an automotive machine shop in Nashua. I still need to talk to the owner about the work to get a quote. Robbins quoted me about $300 a set for a valve job if I supply the two replacement valves. Seemed high to me but I haven't had head work done in a while.

Can anybody point me in the direction of a good machine shop that knows Subie heads? I need to have some cylinder head work done to my 2.5 DOHC and would like to take them to a place that can do the valves and set the valve clearances. Derry/Manchester/Salem/Haverhill, MA/Plaistow area would be great. The closest recommended shop I've found is Robbins Auto Parts in Dover. That's where Singer Subaru sends theirs. Anybody any closer that's done a good job for anybody here?

Very....just lower and to the right.:-\ Question about timing mark on the harmonic balancer.....is there supposed to be a mark on the harmonic balancer so you can use the ignition timing scale on the timing belt cover? I couldn't find any notch or mark on the balancer at all. No way to tell when you're at TDC with all the covers on.......odd.

Used may have been the way to go. I got the engine out yesterday and got it partially dismantled. The autopsy is as follows: The bullet appeared to enter through the left shoulder and........OOPS! Wrong autopsy.......let's see ......it's here somewhere......Oh, here it is.....it looks like the lower left geared idler failed and the right (PS) cams jumped time. This allowed the piston too smack the exhaust valves on the right rear cylinder (I forget which number that is). Both valves are bent and won't close. It's like the story of the three bears: Papa Bear said, "Someone's been changing my timing belt." Mama Bear said, "Someone's been changing my timing belt." Baby Bear said, "Someone's been changing my timing belt, and they used aftemarket parts, didn't change all the idlers, screwed up two of the cam sprockets and got debris in the engine and messed up one of the cam bearings and cam journals." It appears this engine has been worked on before. Way too many of the bolts were WAAAAY too tight. The flange is damaged on the left side intake cam sprocket. Teeth are fine and it doesn't rub on that flange so I think this will be OK. Right side exhaust cam sprocket has damaged teeth from the previous "repair". Needs to be replaced. The geared idler on the lower left spit the bearing out and just about seized up. This is what caused the failure. The lower right idler appears to have been replaced during the last failure/repair. I suspect it caused the failure last time. The top right idler is very noisy. When removing the cams on the right head, we noticed bearing and cam journal damage on the center bearing of the intake cam. Looks like a piece of debris came up through the oil hole and got lodged between the bearing and the cam. The rest of the bearing and the journal looks OK. The engine must have pretty good oil pressure or this would be a lot worse. The two bent valves will need to be replaced. I will probably lap all of the valves while I've got the heads off. Since these are overhead cam engines, can the valve clearance be set on the bench? Is the "special tool" for pulling valve shims needed or is there another way to change them?

I just pulled mine out yesteday because I am doing the head gaskets as a result of pulling the PS head due to bent valves (jumped time). Since I am doing the timing belt, idlers, water pump, etc it wasn't that much more work to just yank it out. I bought an engine hoist from Pep Boys for $119 after rebate. No freight involved ($$$). It made removal pretty easy. I didn't want to try to do the heads, etc in the car because I've got a bad back and I would like to walk the next day. It's sore enough now.

Placed my order for my parts from GenuineSubaruParts.com. I hope to tear into it this weekend and do an autopsy. I'll post back what I find. I called my local Subaru dealer to see what they would charge for the parts and they charge MSRP. He said they don't make much on engine parts. Of course he also told me the woodgrain trim in the interior of my 98 GT must be aftermarket because they didn't come with woodgrain from the factory. A tip of the hat to Jamie SubaruGenuineParts for saving me beaucoup bucks, even after S&H.

That's wierd. I tried to double check but I can't get on the OEM parts site. Can't get on 1stsubaruparts.com either. It was down for me yesterday too.

The part that sucks is that my buddy that helped me tow it home has a flatbed trailer. We talked about it and said "Nah, it's too much trouble to get the trailer out and come-a-long it up on the bed, let's just tow it." I was vaguely aware about the flat-towing no-no but it wasn't in my thoughts at the time. I was just concerned about getting it home w/o getting a ticket.

Well guys.....I'll let you know how far you can flat tow a 4EAT......just did it last Thurday when the car died from the timing belt problem. Flat towed it about 15 miles at a top speed of about 35 MPH. Key on in neutral. When I get it running, I'll let you know if it rolls.

Thanks for the replies. If you look up the gasket set today @ SubaruGenuineParts.com, the 96-98 2.5 DOHC Overhaul Gasket Set retails for $250 but their price is $183. I was thinking or replacing the crank sprocket as a minimum plus the tensioner and any other sprockets or pulleys that look or feel iffy. I picked up my folding 2T engine hoist from Pep Boys last night. $139 minus $20 rebate makes it $119 for the folding one (no sales tax). Made by Big Red. Probably a Big, Red piece of offshore crap but I only need to pull two engines with it at the present time. Hopefully, the count doesn't go up! Putting the Bronco and Saab 9KT back on the road today. Should be enough cars to get me past my repair job. Thanks again guys. I'll be posting back on a regular basis asking stupid noob questions. The shoe is on the other foot for me as I'm usually answering Buick GN questions, not asking them.

Sorry about that guys.:-\ I should have explained the troubleshooting part a little more in this post to start with. The belt is not completely broken. I don't have it apart yet so I can't tell for sure, but I suspect I'm missing a few timing belt teeth. Why it didn't wreck both sides I don't know. I pulled one the passenger side timing belt cover back far enough to peek behind it and had my wife crank it over. The sprockets turn but I've got no compression on the passenger side cylinders. grossgary- I'm leaning toward pulling the engine and just doing the known problem areas for this engine.....both head gaskets, timing belt, water pump, oil pump o-ring, tesioner, any suspect pulleys, oil seals.....basically the works. It just seems like a lot of work for a couple of bent valves (probably). I got the garage cleaned out yesterday so I can fit a car in there. Had my wife help me push the thing in backwards. I need to see if I can pick up an engine hoist tonight. One of the nice folding ones if the price is right. If not, I have a guy at work who will lend me his. Should I just buy the whole engine overhaul gasket set? Will it have all the little o-rings for the oil pump and cam seals, etc? It's $183 and it sounds a little steep compared to the individual parts price. Head gaskets are only about $30 each...that leaves $123 left for o-rings and lip seals????? What about the oil separator plate? All I can find on GenuineSubaruParts.com is a "baffle plate". Is that the same thing? Are there other recommended places to get this stuff? Sorry about all the noob questions. I just don't want to get in the middle of the job and find out I'm missing a seal. Or worse, get finished and find out I should have changed "X" while I had the engine out. Thanks for your patience.

It looks like I've had a timing belt mishap on my 98 Legacy GT 2.5 DOHC. Compression test shows zero on both passenger side cylinders and 120-150 psi on the driver's side cylinders with the engine cold. I'm thinking of doing the timing belt, timing belt tensioner and pulley, water pump, oil seals on the front of the engine, checking the oil pump and pulling the PS side head to see what needs to be done to fix it (new valves or head replacement). It sounds like I can make a tool for the crank bolt removal from a 2-3/8" socket. It also sounds like I don't need the tool to hold the cam sprockets in place on the driver's side either if I rotate them in the proper direction after removing the belt. The question I have is regarding removing the cylinder head on the passenger side w/o removing the engine. Can I get the head off with the engine in place?

Quick update....all is not rosy in the Granite State. First thing I did was shoot a little ether in the intake to see if it would fire......no dice. I checked coil resistance and the primary was in spec but the secondary was low on both pairs. It's a Diamond coil and I was only getting 12K or so instead of 17.9K-24.5K. I hooked up a timing light to each plug wire and cranked it. Driver's side fired OK but passenger side was intermitent. Not the best way to test but it should have popped if it was firing. Pulled the plugs and put my compression tester on each cylinder and checked them dry. Driver's side was 120 and 150. Passenger side was zilch, zero....nada. The belt may have skipped teeth and screwed up the passenger side head. In any case somethings not right and I still need to do more work. Time to clean out the garage. I'll start a new thread.