mellow65

tons of great people and tons of great information can be found here. i can't stand NASIOC much because of so many noobies, and true we all have to start somewhere, but when mommy buys you a STI and you "want to know how to make 600 wheel HP" because mommy said she would pay for you to "fix it up" that kind of stuff gets on my nerves. that and if you post a question, people that have no idea what the hell they are talking about step up and give you their version of fact. Then come to find out they are dead wrong. Other then that I think they have grown past a point of being a small specialized forum. legacy central can be a great place, but moves a little to slow for my taste. ask a question, wait a week get a response. USMB is just a bunch of good old boys and gals that really love the one thing that brings us back to this forum over and over again, Subarus. We like owning Subarus that aren't cool to own. In other peoples eyes our stuff is junk, in our eyes they are works of art. Not many places can someone show a GL touring wagon and get about 20 :slobber:s because they want one too. Also I really like the USRM also and think this is one of the best ideas for any forum. I tried to sugest it to one of the other forums i used to be on and no one thought it was a good idea. Oh well their loss. As long as I own a subaru I will be here checking in to see all the drama unfolding. Seeing who GD is flaming today, seeing Bucky loosing another car to someone that bought it out of under her. Or they way she drools at every lifted EA82 wagon and always says how she wants one. Or me going hormonal buying a new Subaru each week because I found the next cooler one. The way I see it, I will never own anything newer then a first gen Impreza or Legacy so I don't see the need to be any where else. So I'm here to stay.

faster=legacy, cheaper=legacy, more fun, well that ones up in the air. i have a blast in my legacy, but a impreza would be fun too. it's true that they have much more listed for suspension parts for an impreza, but you have to remember that subarus are legos, all 93-01 impreza suspension fits the legacys. I am now running stock 04 STI suspension in my legacy and all I had to do was modify the upper rear strut mounts. From what I read and hear from people the STI stuff is a decent place to start with suspension. Good spring rate, strong inverted struts, good dampening. Like Ed said the 1.8 is a great little motor, you just got to keep the big wheels away from it. You also can't go wrong with the 2.2 either. Just has a little more power. I would stay away from the ea82, under powered, blown head gaskets, just more problems then they are worth. If you remember from the rally school there was a ea82 wagon that after it's first rally cross run was puking antifreeze all over the ground and it was done for the day. As for not plowing, it's just the nature of the beast. Put some bigger rear sway bars on the rear and toss it into corners and you will get some nice over steer. Now lets talk about cheap, all rally people want to do things on the cheap and the production classes, although they sound like the cheap place to start, aren't. G2 is where I would recommend where everyone starts. Because if you really read the rule book and follow the production rules, you could not replace a body panel from a different year car, because that would be updating or back dating. Stupid sounding I know but that's the rules. Now true no one would ever really bust you for something like that, but you have to realize that the cars you are looking at are getting up in the years and you want to be able to do what you want to it to get it out there and race. You don't want to be sitting there asking yourself, "is this legal within the rules of production". that's just my two cents. If I was me, stick with the legacy, they all came with 4 wheel disc brakes, the 2.2 with a 5 speed fwd is really a rocket, parts are cheap and plentiful. And you can still do all the suspension and sway bars upgrades you want. Also the 2.2 fwd shares the same clutch and front axles of it's awd counterpart vs the impreza fwd has different clutches and front axles. I have been thinking of swapping from open to G2. For a couple reasons, but mainly to be closer to a group of people with the same power as I have. But maybe the next car. Either way I wont ever win, I'm just out for the fun of it.

not what i paid for it, its what i put into it to make it bigger, badder and faster

yup i did but it seems i need to find another thanks

does anyone know this off the top of their head. I have access to an auto drive line and it would be going in a 5 speed. I really don't feel like pulling both of them and sitting them side by side (it's damn cold out) so i figure i would use the knowledge of the masters of this board

i hate dragging old posts out of the garbage but i thought it was funny when i first posted this i would have never thought that later on that year I would have bought that legacy that crashed. and with much $$$ it's now it's a whole new beast.

but even then the DR in the 3 doors have a higher low range then the wagons

after figuring out that web site it was cake to find what i was looking for. i got drawn out, at least in my head, what i needed to use both sensors. now i need to go measure it out in the car and see if my idea will fit. I at least made me a list of what i needed so i can print it out and bring it with me out to the stores.

Thanks for all the info. Where did you get the soft lines? I need to do some calling around here to find some better hardware stores that have more fittings. I hit a couple local parts places and they didn't even have the BSPT stuff.

ok not to sound like one of those people that don't bother to look, but man was i lost on that website. Any chance you could fill me in on some part numbers from that site. You know the fact that you have done this a few time, it will help me out quite a bit. I'm what you call not tube fitting smart. or at least i can take what you gave me number wise and that BPST and NPT stuff and hit the hardware store and see what they got. Would you just recommend just a brass fittings or something different.

on the EJ motor how do people add an after market oil pressure gauge. I have used those sandwich plates that you put between the oil filter and block and they work, but I am limited on space there. With a factory oil cooler and a skid plate (rally car) it would be putting the oil filter down lower then i would feel comfortable doing. Has anyone ran a T off the stock location and maybe kept both stock and after market one working. Or maybe running some tubing from the stock location to a remote location or something. I just don't know I am just looking for ideas right now.

why is it every time i see a lifted sedan i want to go into massive debt and build one. way cool:headbang:

ask and you shall receive http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83839

I recently finished a swap of a 99 forester 2.5 into my 90 legacy sedan and have had quite a few questions about how I did it and problems I ran into. So I figured I would write up a little thing about some of the problems I ran into. As most people may know if you been around Subarus long enough, they are like legos. Everything damn near fits in everything else. The motor swap its self was a piece of cake. It was no harder to put in then any other EJ motor. These were a few things that I needed to be deal with before it ran like butter. Throttle Body I ended up using my 2.2 throttle body rather then the 2.5 one. Mainly for ease and not much BS. The throttle position sensor is different and I didn’t want to go through the hassle of repining or trying to make the 2.2 TPS fit the 2.5 TB. The main difference between them is the lack of an IAC on the 2.2 TB. And because the 2.2 TB doesn’t have that I had to make a plate to block the extra area on the intake that is there for the IAC on the 2.5. I just used a 2.5 gasket, then the plate, then 2.2 gasket then the 2.2 TB. I also smeared a little rtv to loose any small air leaks. Other then the plate the TB bolts right on and the throttle cables mount up just fine. Just so you know both the 2.5 and the 2.2 have the same size throttle plates, so from an air flow stand point there is no difference. Injector plugs In the picture below you can see the injector from a 2.2. "A" is where the 2.2 ears are and "B" is where the 2.5s are. So how did I fix this, I just cut off the ears. After they were gone the harness plug clicked right on and didn’t seem to care that the ears were gone. Coil and plug wires This was one that took me a little time to figure out. Ideally I would have wanted to use the 2.5 coil pack mainly because the plug wires would match up to it and the heads. But after trying to repin and use the 2.5 coil I could never get any spark. So I had to resort to using the 2.2 coil. Using the 2.2 coil created a different problem in it’s self. The coil pack from the 2.5 have tips like a spark plug and the 2.2 have tips like a distributor cap. I was able to split the boot that was on the plug wires at the coil and bend the tips to hold themselves into the 2.2 coil. Then I found some rubber boots that are for the 2.2 coil style and slid them over the wires for that factory look. So you may ask, why don’t you just use the 2.2 wires? Well on the 2.5 heads they recess the spark plugs in so far in that you need the plug wires from the 2.5. The 2.2 wires just wont reach. That and the mounting place for the coil is off set towards the passenger side. So two of the wires are longer then the other. Where as the 2.2 wires basicly have 4 wires that are the same length. I also had to make a little bracket to mount the 2.2 coil because the mounting holes between the 2.2 coil and the 2.5 coil are different. Evap system Newer Subarus have their charcoal canister back by the gas tank and the older ones have them under the hood. For this one I really just had to copy the vacuum lines that were on the underside of the 2.2 intake and remake it on the 2.5. I ended up using some of the metal hoses from the 2.2 intake and connected them all with some vacuum hoses. Also I swapped the solenoid from the 2.2 on the 2.5 so it would just plug into the harness. Wiring Harness The wiring was pretty easy. I just snaked the whole harness off of the 2.2 intake and snaked it into the 2.5 intake. Threw a few zip ties on to keep it in place and that was all done. Temp sensor Newer subarus use only one temp sensor where as the older ones have two. One for the gauge and one for the computer. Under the intake is what I would call the water crossover tube. I don’t know what it is really called but if you saw it you would know what I was talking about. On the 2.5 tube it only had one sensor but was not drill out for the second one even though the casting was still there. So what I did was take the tube off of the 2.2 and put it on the 2.5 with some new O rings and I was done. No need to swap sensors because I brought both that I needed to the new motor. Cam and crank sensors These were just an easy swap. Take 2.5 out replace with the 2.2s. Snake wires to the back and you are done. Oil pressure sending unit This was an easy part also. Simply remove the oil pressure sending unit from your 2.2 and put it in the same spot on the 2.5. Knock sensor Just take your 2.2 knock sensor and put on the 2.5 block. Accessories All of the brackets for the alternator and power steering pump and AC pump just bolt right on. All the holes are in the same spots on both blocks. The only thing I ran into was the power steering lines got in the way of the now bigger intake. So just a little bending of the hard lines and all fit great. Things to keep in mind if you are doing this swap. With this combo you not have a working IAC. The 2.2 IAC was mounted on the side of the intake and the 2.5 was mounted with the TB. So by using the 2.2 TB and the 2.5 intake, I no longer have a place for an IAC. Come to find out this really wasn’t a big deal. When you first start the car it will want to die if you don’t put your foot on the gas. I generally just hold the RPMs at about 1500 for 30 seconds and after that it will idle. First low because it’s cold, but once warm you really can’t tell there isn’t one. I have my idle set at about 1000 and it will sit at that all day. Now this is something I am willing to live with. This being my race car, cold starts are the least of my worries. Also if you still have AC the ECU will not be able to compensate for the draw from the AC pump. All of my AC stuff is removed so no biggy for me. Now there is rumor that some older JDM WRX intakes will bolt up to the heads and still uses an IAC mounted to the side of the intake. I was never able to confirm this rumor as finding an intake from a JDM WRX is not something I have ran across. Also this is not a problem if you do this swap to a 1.8 impreza as the 1.8s have the IAC mounted on the TB. One idea that I came up with on how to have an IAC in the legacy was to use a 1.8 TB. The IAC on the 1.8 and the 2.2 do have the same plug but I’m not sure if the 2.2 ECU would run the 1.8 IAC. One thing to note the 1.8 TB is smaller then the 2.2. Not that this would make a large difference but there is a difference. What about the crappy 2.5 head gaskets? Yes I knew before getting into my swap that the ej25s have a pretty bad rep of head gaskets issues, from blowing them in the phase 1 to leaking coolant in the phase 2. So to give the best chance to my motor I started with a plan of parts that have proved themselves to be reliable. As far as I know Subaru has stepped up and now make a decent head gasket. But I had been doing a lot of reading about a company called Cometic. And from what I hear they make some pretty outstanding gaskets. And the funny part was they were no more money then if I was to go to Subaru and get a set from them. So with a set of Cometic head gaskets and a set of ARP head studs I put the top end together. I feel this combo should give me quite a bit of extra protection. Only time will tell but so far so good. So would I do it again? Hell yeah. This what these old legacys should be like. It has way more pickup and go and go and go. I would even deal with the idle problem on a street car. But if I was to put it in a street car I would look further into using the 1.8 TB so I could have a better cold idle and bump up the idle if I turned on the AC. One more thing to mention is that the older 2.2 and 1.8 ECU had a much steeper ignition curve then the newer bigger motors. So it tries to put more timing in then it should and can cause knocking. In the 2.2 you are safe because it has a knock sensor and will pull timing if it hears any knocking. The 1.8 does not have a knock sensor so the safe thing to do is run 92 octane. In my case my car on 87 octane, ran, and pulled hard until you reached the upper end of the RPMs. Then it felt it was running less then it should be. So I ran a tank of 92 through it and it is a whole new beast. It pulls hard all the way to redline and doesn’t have that feeling that it did before. So unfortunately it has an expensive drinking habit now. Now as you can tell this is by no means a step by step “how to” kind of write up. But these will get you through the main things that I had to deal with. I would be more then willing to answer any questions about my swap. So feel free to ask away. As of writing this I have got about 300-400 miles on this set up. And it's still running great. Nothing weird going on except for the cold starting thing that I knew was going to happen. Well except for the crazy exhaust rattle that is driving me nuts. But that has nothing to do with the swap, that's more because I bent it at the last event and I need to replace it.

Have you ever wanted to add a LSD to your older legacy. Maybe to help in the off road or just for some bragging rights. Head over to your local newer salvage yard and ask a rear end out a 02+ WRX automatic wagon. Yes, you could find one from an older 2.5rs, but chances are it will have some higher miles on it a probably driven pretty hard. So why that combo you may ask. First all WRX automatics came with 4.11 gears (same as the legacys) and all came with a viscous limited slip standard. Second you need the axles from a wagon because they share the same width as the legacys, where as the sedan has a wider width. Now I’m not 100% sure you couldn’t use sedan axles, but I used wagon axles and they worked great. The only prep you have to do to the WRX rear end is swap the input flange to the one that is from your legacy. That just takes an impact gun or a big breaker bar. Other then the flange the rear end is a strait forward swap. The only odd thing I ran into was one axle was a little longer then the other by about a ½”. After mounting it I measured between the bearing in the hub to the rear end and the passenger side was just about a 1/2” longer. So the longer one went into the passenger side. The main reason I went with this combo was the WRX wagons seem to be not as popular to get parts from as the sedans. I picked up my whole rear end with both axles with 8000 miles on it for $300. And I will never put the power to it that a WRX would so it should last me a good long time. Keep in mind this will work with older legacys with 4.11 final gears or any subaru with 4.11 gears. I have heard in later years of the legacys they changed the final ratio to 3.90. So consult your manual or if it's old enough it should have the sticker on your rear differential cover what gear ratio you have.

what color?

yeah i was tired of it sitting on the back porch. had to do something with it.

you know as i was doing stuff i kept on saying i should be taking pictures of this. but i was normally covered in filth and didn't want to go get my camera. I can give you some of the key things i ran into along the way. there was only really 4 or 5 main things that I had to figure out. I did this with help from someone that did this in their brothers older impreza wagon so i had some help with some of them. all in all it was a really easy swap. much easier then i had expected. there are things about it I am willing to deal with that maybe a street car wouldn't want to. But I even had a fix for that, but I could never find the part in the junkyard to see if it would work. but i can try to sit down and type something up with some pictures of things I ran into and post it over in the USRM. and you are right they 2.5 get a bad rep, but i wanted to take care of the main problem with them right off the bat. the head gaskets. so i went with cometic head gaskets and ARP head studs, i know some one that was running that set up in 2.5rs block with STI guts and running like 20lbs of boost and he never had a problem. so my poor little NA motor I don't think will ever have a problem. He also said you can even over heat them and they just wont pop either

there are some decent warranty companys out there. and being an auto broker we had the displeasure of going through some sh*t ones. one denied a claim because the said the damage was preexisting. well no crap that's why you get a warranty because you just don't know. So we ended up buying that lady a new tranny. But one thing to keep in mine, you can add warranty any time up to 1 mouth or 1000 miles left of your factory warranty. i always tell people when they are buying a new car to save their money and if they feel they still need it then to get it. because hell with as fast as people go through cars these days, they probably wont even own the car long enough to use the warranty and some companies wont refund your money or you really wont get that much more money selling it with the extended warranty.

the roll cage comes through a hole in the fire wall and connects to the strut tower so you put the foam there to plug it up. it works, i think, that or a have a leak from some where else. but this thing has so many random holes in it, i'm sure it coming from one of those.

not sure what year I got the knob from. I got all the linkage to do a DR swap in a loyale but it never happened. so I found it laying in the garage and figured it would look cool. the button is for my horn. Hella super tones baby.

Have you ever wanted a limited slip in your older legacy. Maybe for some off roading or just to have some bragging rights. Here's what you do, go to your local newer salvage yard and get a rear end for a 02+ WRX wagon automatic. Why that combo, a few reasons, one, yes you could get a LSD from an older 2.5rs, but chances are they would be higher miles and be driven pretty hard. Two, WRX automatics came with 4.11 gears (same as the old legacys) and had the vicious limited slip standard. And three, you should get the wagon axles because the wagons shared the same width as the legacys, where as the sedans had a wider track. Now I'm not 100% sure you can't use the sedans axles but I used the wagon axles and they worked great. The only preparing you have to do to the rear end is swapping the input shaft flange to the one that was on your legacys rear end and that just takes a good impact gun or a big breaker bar. Other then that it's a direct bolt in swap. One thing that got me was the two axles were different lengths, just by a little bit, maybe a 1/2". The longer one went on the passenger side. I figured that out by measuring from the rear end after it was mounted to the bearing in the hub and the passenger side was just a little bit farther away. Another reason to get stuff from the automatic wagons, because they are not as desirable as the sedan stuff. I was able to get a 03 WRX rear end with 8k miles on it with axles for $300. Not to bad and I will never be putting as much power to it as the WRX was so I should last me a good long time.

still dont think so. as far as i remember they kept the same basic design of the 2.2 till it's end. so basically the only plug and play would be a phase 2 ej25 and even with them they changed some stuff. like i think in 2000 they moved the AFS into the intake manifold. where before that it was near the air box. anything is possible, with a little time and thinking. So yes a 2.2 would be doable, but probably more of a headache then you are looking to have right now.

you guys are missing a couple more thing here, it's not all about egrs it also IAC. the ej22s and phase 1 ej25 had them mounted to the side of the intake manifold the phase 2 ej25 motors had them mounted on the throttle body. so when you say plug and play it really isn't. The IAC on the phase 2 ej25 has like 5 or 6 wires to the IAC the older ones have 3. Now if you were to use the ej25 throttle body on the ej22 intake and just leave the IAC on the ej22 unpluged but still mounted you could do that. also the coils are different, the earlier ones were a three plug the later ones a 4 what ever you decide to do, it's not impossible, just maybe a little more work figuring out a way to do it. Like me I just put a 99 forester motor in my 90 legacy and it took a few days of figuring out how to do the little things so they worked. the part of putting the motor in was the easy part.

In my searches to find some good relays to use in my rally car I ran across a great source for them at the junk yard. Here is a picture of what I am using. The rack that they snap on to what from an early 90s pontiac and all the relays were from early 90s cadillacs. All the under hood factory relays for cadillacs were from Hella. And they all have great water proof connectors and big wires going in and out. Perfect for lights or what ever. Also I keep a few spares on the rack just encase they die.