Mikevan10

Hi Keith, As a matter of fact, I have removed and replaced transmissions on Subarus (both automatic and manual) at least six times over the years. I have done all of them by “dropping the trans”. I have never pulled an engine on one. I will be the first to agree that doing the job the way I have always done it is no picnic! But I had always assumed that dealing with the coolant, pulling the radiator, dealing with the electrics, vacuum lines, fuel lines, etc that would be required to pull the engine would be even worse. Besides, I would have thought that you’d still have to do same stuff to disconnect the drive axles and I would think you’d have the same gear oil complications. Plus I do not have a lift rig of any type, so I’d have to go through the hassle and expense of renting one. Rereading your post, Keith, I see that you are only talking about doing a clutch job, not replacing the transaxle. So you are not moving the transaxle at all, just sliding the engine forward, huh? Interesting concept. I will definitely consider that possibility next time. Exactly how do you move the engine forward and then back? I would think that may be tricky without a lift of some sort. But, I am willing to consider the pull engine/trans as a unit option. As I described in my recent “Noisy Legacy transmission” thread (check it out), doing the trans-drop job on these cars is a bit of a nightmare for me. Subaru360 commented in his post on that thread that he simply lifts the front of the trans up by hand, rests it on a cross member, slips a floor jack under the back and slides it right on! I know I’m about 20 years his senior but I don’t think I ever had the grunt to pull off what he’s describing! Not with these transaxles, anyway. Sorry for the thread hijack. And thanks for the advice! Mike V.

Gary suggested a hub with a different offset but I don't believe Simp ever mentioned changing out any "hubs". But for that matter, I think he just mentioned for the first time having ripped a CV joint boot on his "original" drive axle. On the other hand, I stiil don't see why one would pull the engine to do clutch and belt work!?! Mike V.

Well, I wrote up my transmission swap report only to find out the board was down. Luckily for you guys, I saved it for your reading pleasure! So, here goes: Did the transmission swap over the weekend. Solo job, out in the driveway, temperatures in the 20s (not including wind chilllllll!). And I aint’ as young as I used to be…. I had not planned on replacing any clutch parts as that had all been replaced about 50,000 miles ago. And money is very tight right now. But, when I was checking things over before jacking up the “new” transmission I discovered that the center hub in the clutch driven plate (a.k.a. disc) was kind of loose. This was obviously not correct so I spent a good part of Saturday locating and then retrieving a clutch kit. My first thought was to just replace the driven plate but the only Subaru dealer that I found open on Saturday within 40 miles of me told me that Subaru had recently changed the part numbers on the clutch parts and he couldn’t guaranty that the new disc would work with the rest of my clutch. So I ended up buying a complete after market clutch kit. When I removed the clutch from the flywheel I discovered where that above mentioned plastic ring came from. It had fallen out of the clutch disc! It is some kind of insert that holds the splined center hub in position. Perhaps I could have glued it back in place but at this point I went ahead and replaced the entire clutch assembly. Incidentally, the kit did not come with the release bearing clips. I was lucky that the used trans still had the old release bearing in place so I reused those clips. Otherwise I would have had to make a long drive to the open dealer just for those little clips ( I had pondered making my own…). The rest of the job went about as one can expect. I struggled for a while balancing the trans on my floor jack trying to position it to “slide it on” but eventually had to go borrow a second floor jack to support the rear end. Finished up around 4 PM yesterday. One of the things that makes these transmission swaps (or just clutch replacement) so agonizing to me is that you really don’t know if everything is right until EVERYTHING is done and you drive the car. If you find out then that something is wrong, you have the ENTIRE job to do all over again! A fate to bitter to contemplate. Lessons learned: Have a complete clutch kit on hand even if you don’t plan to use it. You can return it if you don’t need it. Have release bearing clips on hand. Dealer item. Have two floor jacks plus a scissor jack (for tilting the engine) on hand. A “transmission jack” could make life a lot easier but I have never had that luxury. Anybody have any comment on that? Recommendations if you have a choice: Climate controlled environment (or at least shelter from the wind) A competent assistant. That's the story. I'll add that I drove the car to Boston and back over Thanksgiving (about 600 miles round trip). No problems (exept for the deer that smashed mty front left fender and driver side door about an hour from home). Mike V.

Thanks for the comments g squared. Yeah, the plastic (Teflon?) ring remains a mystery. I just looked at my Subaru factory service manual and I do not see anything like it. I don't know if the Suabru dealer parts department is open on Saturdays. Hope they are since I need the clips. Don't know anything about a separator plate. Do tell! Normally, I would be replacing the entire clutch asembly (well, at LEAST the driven plate, the pilot bearing and the release bearing) "while I'm in there" but money is so tight right now that as long as this one lasts til Spring I'll have to take it. Thanks again! Mike

Alright, I picked up the used trans today. $400.00 for a grimy old gem. Anyway, I managed to remove the trans from my car. Took me 5 hours working solo. No real problems but it was no fun dealing with the ambient conditions. I'm working out in the driveway and it is plenty windy and the theremometer in the garage read 25 F when I finished. Oh well, enough wining for now. I do have a question! Wnen the trans finally hit the ground, the release bearing fell out along with a plastic ring. The plastic ring has an inside dianeter rouighly equivalent to the i.d. of the release bearing. The outside diameter is about 1/4 inch bigger than the i.d. (so the width of the ring is only about 1/8 inch). It is also about 1/8 inch thick. I do not know what this ring is for. It does not show in the Haynes manual. Can someone please tell what it is, what it does and exactly where it goes?. Also, the release bearing clips were mangled. Hope I can get them at a generic auto parts store tomorrow. I need to complete this job this weekend. Thanks for any comments, moral support, etc. Mike V.

OK, I'm going to take the plunge. I'll be picking up a used trans tomorrow. I think it came from a car with about 120,000 miles on it but this is not certain (maybe more like 150K). Price is $400.00. I'll be doing the swap this weekend. Perfect timing as the weather forcast is for a high of 30 degrees F and very windy! Will be a good time out in the wide open driveway. So if anyone has any tips to speed up my job, I'm all ears (until they freeze off). I have done this job before but I'm always open to suggestions. Thanks again, Mike V.

Correction - It was my 1987 GL that blew the diff (not the 1992). Mike

Thanks for the comments fellas. I am trying to make my decision. The situation is that I was planning to drive this vehicle to Boston and back over Thanksgiving for a total of about 500 miles. The only transmission I have located within 50 miles of me is one with 150,000 miles on it and they want $450.00. (Note to Sub360 - Fleetwood is not far from me. Let me know if you are aware of any deals like you suggested....).High temperatures for this weekend are forecast to be around 30 deg. F and I'll be doing the swap outside in the driveway. Also weighing on my mind is that I had a 1992 GL on which the differential self destructed about 150 miles from home several years ago. Do not want to go through that again. Thanks again, Mike V.

1997 Legacy 2.2 liter 5 speed manual, AWD 201,000 miles The transmission in this car is noisy when I load it (i.e. when I accelerate in any gear). It is hard for me to explain exactly what the noise sounds like, other than it is what you might expect a gearbox running dry to sound like. It is steady, not a wump-wump. It is a general thrashy sound. It goes away when you take your foot off the throttle pedal. Other than the noise, the only symptom is that the third gear synchro is apparently not in perfect condition. It wants to give a little crunch as you downshift into third from fourth unless you have engine speed appropriately synchronized with the current road speed. If you double clutch properly it does not crunch/grind at all. It has been doing this for well over a year. I only mention it here for the sake of completeness. I personally doubt it has anything to do with the noise I now have under acceleration, which has only come about in the last month or two. I drained the gear oil this past Saturday. I do not believe I have ever changed this fluid before on this car in the 130,000 some odd miles I’ve owned it. It was pretty “muddy” looking and there definitely was metallic particles in it. But I would be surprised NOT to find metal particles in there. I did NOT, on the other hand, find any large chunks of anything in the drain oil. I filled it back up with 75W-90 gear oil. Your thoughts? Thanks, Mike V.

Quick update: I got another used MAF sensor from the Subaru repair/salvage shop. It has been in the car for about 130 miles so far without any problems. So far so good, but this problem was intermittant and I have gone over 300 miles between occurences of trouble before (on the original sensor). Will take a while before I will assume that it is fixed. Mike

I neglected to mention that i did clean the MAF sensor (with CRC MAF sensor cleaner) last night. Made zero difference. "It sounds like once this new maf acted up it stayed messed up." Actually, after stranding my wife yesterday, I was able to collect the car and bring it home. It was acting up when I first started it but it then pretty much smoothed out and I was able to drive it home (about 6 miles). It ran ok until I was just about home, then began sputtering, then stalled and I coasted into my driveway. Always grateful, Mike

Seems like I have y‘all stumped. Well, here’s some more clues in case it shakes something loose: First off, for the “troubleshooting” I was doing last night, the car cooperated in that it sputtered consistently. What I mean is that although the trouble has been intermittent, it stayed with me throughout my test session. The engine will start and idle, but it is VERY rough. And it is very difficult to coax it to rev up. Tends to stall. I disconnected the front oxygen sensor. This made no difference whatsoever. I disconnected before starting the engine and it made no difference. I also disconnected it WHILE the engine was running and there was no change in the (lousy) running condition. With everything connected and the engine idling (very roughly), if I disconnect the MAF sensor, the idle immediately smoothes out, the revs pick up a little (probably to normal idle speed) and then the engine stalls. This all takes place within about 5 seconds. With the MAF sensor disconnected, the engine starts right up and idles smoothly. However, if I try to rev it up it misfires/stumbles. It does not stall and I can get it to rev as high as I want (though it is rough). If I plug the MAF sensor in while it is running the engine stalls immediately. Spanking the Main Relay (brown cube) has no effect on the running conditions. I also back pinned the power feed wire at the MAF sensor connector plug and monitored the voltage there and the voltage was rock steady while spanking the relay. I plan to visit the shop that sold me this MAF sensor on my way home from work tonight and see what they say. Like I said, they specialize in Subarus. Any more ideas? Thanks guys. Mike V.

Not yet, OB. But I will try that tonight. If I recall correctly, the Main Relay is located in the pasenger compartment, under the dah to the left of the sterring column, right? I just got back to work after "rescuing" my wife with the broke down Legacy. It had stalled and would not start. Actually, when I tried to start it, it would make a half hearted attemt to run but would stall immediately. I disconnected the MAF sensor and the car started up, although it ran roughly. This tends to make me wonder about the condition of the used MAF sensor that I installed last night. Of course the guy at the independent Subaru repair/used car/used parts shop told me he was sure it was good... Thanks for the thoughts! Mike V.

Replaced MAF sensor yesterday. Car ran "fine" for about 10 miles and then began sputtering again. Does anyone know how I can fim=ne the ground connection in the MAF sensor circuit. Maybe tghe ground connection is shaky. Grasping at straws. A bit desperate. Very poor. Mike V.

Just thought I’d check in again, to BUMP this thread back up, if nothing else. In the mean time, I tried to check out the MAF sensor circuit wiring and function. This was a bit tricky since, as I mentioned above, my circuit does NOT match the one shown in my Subaru factory manual. Anyway, I measured 1.4 ohms between the ground pin on my MAF sensor plug and the engine block (i.e. ground). I measured 1.6 ohms between the ECM and the MAF sensor. I get full battery voltage (like 12.6 volts) at the power input pin on the MAF sensor as soon as I turn the ignition switch on. With everything hooked up, I “back pinned” the EDCM connector plug so I could monitor the MAF sensor output voltage. With engine off it read 0 volts (of course). With the engine idling it was about 1.0 volts. When I revved the engine the voltage would increase proportionately. I saw about 2.5 volts when I would give it a good goose. Of course, while I was doing this testing, the engine was running fine. As I have said, this is a very intermittent problem – most of the time, the engine runs fine, then, for no apparent reason, it will suddenly start sputtering/misfiring badly. And it does not seem to correlate to engine temperature, ambient conditions or anything else. Also, the MIL does not always illuminate, even with it sputtering something bad. Other times the MIL comes right on and the code is P0102. I guess I should just replace the MAF sensor and see if that fixes it. I really hate to do so without KNOWING that that is the culprit. New ones cost about 300 bucks so it will have to be a used one. Not sure how much I’ll have to pay but it aint gonna be a 10 dollar item… I don’t understand how what seems to be a fancy resistor could have an intermittent failure. Do you? Isn’t there a direct test of the darn thing? Also, as I mentioned above, my official Subaru manual does not have a trouble shooting routine for P0102 nor does the wiring diagram exactly match my car. Any help on either of these? Driving the 25 year old, 300,000 mile VW van to Maine this weekend because the Subaru is not reliable. Mike V.

OK. I’m back! I’ll try to keep the story short. Basically, after we last spoke, I went ahead and drove the car to Jones Beach and back. No problem whatsoever. Wife continued to use car on a regular basis. Put over 800 miles on it after changing out the fuel filter with no problem and no MIL. Then one day while I was driving the car it started sputtering about ½ mile from home. MIL came on by the time I rolled into my driveway. Borrowed an OBDII scanner and code P0102 “MAF sensor low input” was up. Let car sit overnight. Started it up and it ran fine. I cleared the code. Drove the car on a 15 mile run. No problem. The car sat for about 5 hours. Attempted to drive home and within 2 or 3 minutes of starting the engine and 1 mile of travel, it began sputtering and the MIL illuminated. I managed to nurse it all the way home (which included climbing over a nice steep ridge-never thought it would make it). It was a hellish ride in the wee hours of the morning… Ignored the car for a couple days. Scanned OBDII. P0102, of course. Cleared the code. Started the engine. Ran fine. Drove a couple of miles. No problem, no MIL. Decided to clean the MAF sensor with the CRC MAF sensor cleaner spray. Also used the same spray to clean the connector plug. Waited about 15 minutes then started the engine. Sputtering badly! MIL illuminates. Code is P0102. I let the engine run/sputter while I jiggled the MAF sensor connector and associated wires until they disappear into the wiring harness. No change. Shut the engine down. Restarted. Still sputtering. Threw in the towel for the night. I have a Subaru factory manual but, in the Troubleshooting section it does not list P0102! It only includes P0100 and P0101. I have not studied those procedures yet but I plan to see if they help. Anyone have a specific procedure for P0102 or any other suggestions? Thanks as always, Mike V.

It's already on the list! Thanks.

Guys, Thank you very much for all of your thoughts and comments! Sorry for not reporting back sooner but I have been very busy. I'll try to comment more later but for now I'll just say that the car has not acted up AT ALL since I replaced the fuel filter and that was about 80 or 90 miles ago. That is not to say that I am certain that that was the cause of the problem. I have not forgotten that it seemed fine after we filled the gas tank only to re-occur some 40 miles later. BUT, I am confident enough that unless it re-occur between now and then, I am going to drive it to Jones Beach on Sunday. I will replace the air filter before I go. Possibly I'll hit the MAF sensor with the CRC too but I am thinking of not "disturbing" it until after my little trip. Again, many thanks. Talk to you soon. Mike

Hi Ferret. Thanks for joining the party! Sounds like useful info. From what you and McDave are saying, I can disconnect either the MAF sensor or the front oxygen sensor and the car will run? So, if it acts up while I'm out on the road this Sunday, I can always get home by disconnecting each of these devices (one at a time) and, assuming one of these devices actually is the culprit, when I disconnect the defective device, the car will begin running staisfactorily enough to drive home (even if its over a hundred miles)? Is this correct, guys? Also, why wouldn't either a shakey MAF sensor or faulty oxygen sensor set a code that will keep the MIL on? Gratefully, Mike V. PS I have not been able to get over to an Iron Pigs game yet, but I will before the season ends....

Right, like Dave said, since the light is NOT on, their scanner will not display any codes. Interesting. The engine will run with the MAF sensor unplugged? Mike V.

Thanks for chiming in OB99. For the very brief period when the MIL was on, it was on steady (NOT flashing). Environmental conditions were not remarkable during any of the sputtering/stalling incidents. I do not yet have a scanner so I drove down to Auotozone last evening. The guy there told me that they only have a Cheapo scanner and it will not display any trouble codes if the MIL is not illuminated. I asked him if he could get the stored trouble codes (i.e. history) and he said No. I know a guy who has a nice scanner but he is out of town til next week. I drove the car about 25 or 30 miles last night under varying conditions. Car was also shut down and restarted several times over differing time intervals. Never had one hint of a problem. I’d like to re-emphasize that this is a definite “present versus not present” problem. It is NOT a case of the car “seeming” to be running a bit rough now and then. When it sputtered, it was clearly sputtering/stalling. I also did pick up a new air filter and a can of CRC MAF sensor cleaner last night. I did not have the opportunity to use either of them yet. I am planning to drive this car to Long Island and back this Sunday. A round trip of about 200 miles. I wish I could have some confidence in it! Again, thanks much for all your input! Mike V.

Understood, Nipper. My question really was really about the INTERMITTANT nature of the problem. It comes and goes completely and it seems to be more severe than just one cylinder coming and going. Regardless, I don't want to beat this to death (yet). I will try to pick up an air filter and some CRC MAF sensor cleaner tonight. I will also look into hooking up a fuel pressure gage. Thanks as always. Mike V.

Thanks for the comments, fellows. I will look for a can of MAF sensor cleaner. Any risk in doing this (like is there something about Subaru’s MAFs that they are damaged by generic MAF cleaners?)? Nipper – I guess it always could have been some “bad” fuel but it has now malfunctioned on two different tanks of fuel. And, as far as a “tune up”goes, I guess I gave it away by mentioning that I had not changed the fuel filter in many years, huh. Well, truth be told, it has not been “tuned up” in years either. But then again, what does a tune up consist of on these vehicles? I would guess new spark plugs, new spark plug wires, fuel and air filters, pcv valve? I am not sure why any of these would cause such an intermittent problem. Thanks again! Mike V.

1997 Legacy, 2.2 liter, 5-speed manual, non-turbo, 198,000 miles Wife was driving car about a week ago and it began to sputter. Pulled off road. Sputtered more and stalled. Started back up but still sputtered. She called me up. Fuel was low although should not have been empty according to fuel gage or miles on that tank of gas. Still, the symptoms sounded like low fuel so I met her with a can of gas. Poured about 2 or 3 gallons in. Engine started fine and she drove it ALMOST all the way home (about 5 or 6 miles) and it sputtered again as she approached our driveway. Throughout all of this the MIL (aka CEL) never illuminated. Next day engine started fine. Filled tank. Drove car to town and back (about 30 miles) without any incident. Seemed perfectly fine. Couple of days later, started car without any indication of trouble but within a couple miles it started sputtering and stalled. She was able to re-start and limp home with engine sputtering. She was slipping the clutch to keep it going. After she got home I went out and started it up. MIL came on and stayed on as I idled (sputtered) it for a minute or so and then I shut the engine down. I went under the hood to listen for vacuum leaks, etc. Wife started car and although it was sputtering the MIL did NOT come back on. I did not hear anything unusual in the engine compartment so we shut it down to attend to other business. That was this past Sunday. Yesterday I bought a new (Wix) fuel filter and installed it. When I removed the old one (I had never changed it, and I’ve owned this car for about 6 years) I blew though it and easily pushed fuel out the other pipe. Darn it! I was hoping it would be obviously clogged. Anyway, with the new filter in the engine started up no problem and idled normally. I drove around for about 10 miles and varied engine speed and load and did not notice any problem. Seems ok now but I have zero confidence since it fooled me once already (read above). MIL remains extinguished, by the way. Please comment! Thanks, Mike V.

Did the automatic transmission change-out over the weekend. The reason for the swap was the transmission was “slipping”. That it, from a stop if you selected “D” and opened the throttle you went nowhere – the engine would just race. If you selected “3” you got the same result. The only way to move was to select “1” or “2”. Then you could take off and once you achieved about 35 mph you could slip it into “D” and if you very gently opened the throttle, you could nurse it into the upper gears and cruise. If at any time you pushed on the “gas peddle” too aggressively, the trans would disengage. Or, if you had to slow down below about 25 mph, you would have to again select “1’” or “2” and start the process over. The advice I was given by Subaru specialists was to throw in another transmission because there is no chance of repairing this one for less than $1,000.00. Since I have no way to disprove that theory, I went ahead and located a used transmission. I was also told that it “had” to be the same exact year. I was lucky enough to find one pretty locally but it cost me $450.00 for a trans with a reported 116,000 miles on it!! Seems like a lot of money but I didn’t have much choice. I need to get at least another 6 months out of this car. I did the job totally solo in my driveway. The entire job, start to finish, took me 12 man-hours. Hand tools only. I do not have a “transmission jack” but I used three floor jacks to do the job. I had done some research on this forum and read A LOT about how tricky it was to make sure the transmission input shaft and the oil pump drive tube were properly seated. So I went through a couple of dry runs with these parts on my “new” trans before I started the job. It was quite clear when both of these items seated. So clear that I was questioning whether or not I was fooling myself. On the other hand, NOWHERE did I read where anyone had any trouble with removing and, more so, installing the four flex plate to torque converter bolts. This was really the only tricky part of the entire job! The Haynes manual says you can do this either through the top or the bottom. Well, although you can get a line of sight through the bottom I defy you to tell me how you could get any sort of wrench on the bolts from there! At least on my car there was no freaking way. So this left me with only the top option which is no bargain. You have to use one hand, like 2 fingers and blindly fish each bolt though the little access opening, find the bolt hole and start the threads. And all the while knowing that if you drop the bolt, you may very well have to remove the trans to retrieve it! Like I said, the bottom “access” hole is all but useless so you probably would not be able to get dropped bolt out through there. Once you get the bolts started in their holes you barely have enough room to get a wrench on them. I cannot imagine how you could get a TORQUE WRENCH on them. Can you?? Anyway, finished up around noon yesterday, added the fluids and it seems to work just fine. Mike V.