Mikevan10

Guys! I am on the verge of starting this little project. If the rain holds off (I am forced to work outside in the driveway) I will start tomorrow night. Sorry to be a nag but I would REALLY like some feedback on my second to last post (above). Am I on the right track or am I fooling myself thinking I have it figured out? (I am talking about the assembly/installation process, NOT the question about the "seal pipe" which is a non-issue). Thanks again! Mike V.

He is going to need a special tool to keep the crankshaft from turning when he loosens or tightens the crank pulley bolt isn't he? Mike V.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am now convinced that the "seal pipe" that the Subaru parts guy suggested that I replace is INTERNAL. My assumption is that this guy remeberss that when they REBUILD a trans, they replace that pipe. I consider it not applicable to a trans swap. Mike V.

OK. I did some inspection of my "new" transmission. Here are my comments and questions: The Tranmsmission Input Shaft (the actual input shaft, not part of the torque converter or oil pump drive) has a small O-ring near the torque converter end. I plan to replace this. The torque converter has a larger diameter tube extending from the rear (i.e. trans side) of it. This tube has the slots cut out of the end of it that engage, and drive, the oil pump. This tube has kind of a wobbly connection to the torque converter itself. I assume this wobbliness is normal. Correct? The wobbly tube has a split, square section, ring near the trans/oil pump end of it. This ring is made of a hard material. Perhaps graphite. Perhaps Teflon. I assume this is the "ring seal" everyone likes to replace. Correct? I carefully re-installed the trans input shaft and then the torque converter. I rotated the torque converter while applying axial force to it until it pushed "home". I am fairly (like 99.999%) positive that the last 1/4 inch that it slid was when the slots in the end of the torque converter tube engaged the lugs (for lack of a better term) on the oil pump. Once I reached this condition the plane of the engine side of the tabs that you bolt the flex plate ("flywheel") to was about 1/16" forward of the plane of the bell housing mounting flange. Does this sound like the torque converter and the trans drive shaft are properly, and fully, installed? What is considered the "hard" part of this assembly task? Getting the trans input shaft fully seated? Getting the torque converter (actually the oil pump drive tube) fully seated? If you, before attempting to install the trans onto the engine: 1. Insert and fully seat the trans input shaft, then 2. Insert torque coverter and make sure you have the 1/16" dimension mentioned above, and 3. Don't let the torque convertter slide back out during the transmission mounting process, WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT/TRICKY ABOUT THIS JOB? Am I missing something? Am I wrong in my thinking that I have the torque converter fully home? Thanks guys for your comments. I REALLY appreciate it!! Mike V.

I believe the "seal pipes" mentioned on pages 4 and 25 of the service bulletin are one and the same. I also believe that, as someone suggested, this seal pipe would only be replaceable upon partially dismantling the transmission, which I have no intention of doing (unlesss I have to). I will comment more later after I examine my replacement trans (externally). At this point, can anyone clarify which part exactly is the "ring seal" (I believe this is some sort of split ring - possibly graphiite?). Is this the part that is shown on page 25 of the service bulletin, between item numbers 13 (the seal pipe) and 11? And is what spomeone referred to as the "torque converter seal" item 18 on this same illustration (on page 25)? Thanks, Mike V.

I am planning to swap out the automatic transmission on my 1992 Legacy this coming weekend. I have a used one on hand. Man are these things HEAVY! Anyway, my query at the moment concerns the "Seal Pipe" that goes (I believe) behind (or maybe over) the split oil pump shaft seal ring. I stopped my my local Subaru dealer yesterday to order the split seal ring and also the front tans seal. Those were the only parts I really intended to replace "while I was in there". The parts counter man advised me that whenever they (i.e. the dealer) replaces an auto trans, they replace this seal pipe (part number 31295AA003) because it tends to crush down to size when it is installed. In all of the recent discussions about replacing automatic transmissions on this board lately, I have seen no mention of this. The dealer wants $32.00 for this part and I have no desire to spend an unnecessary money on this job. Any comments on this, please! Thanks, Mike V.

"For it's age you would expect to have to put aftermarket fenders on the front..." Why would you go to the expense and effort to do this on such a vehicle? Mike V.

So, Mr. Wolf. How is the A/T swap going? Please update us. I am thinking you must have run into unexpected difficulties? Hope not! I am going to be executing the same drill very soon. What's up? Mike V.

Skip, You said, "As a side note to this diatribe, my 94 Leg wagon does a similar thing - I have to hold the ignition switch in the start position for sometimes as long as 5 seconds before it begins to crank. No noise, no nuttin' for 5 second then -er -er -er -- VRoom. Been doin this for a year." Obviously you are handy with diagnosis, maintenance and reapair of these things. So I am curious.... Why don't you figure out what's wrong and fix it? Not trying to be a wise acre. Just naturally nosey. Mike V.

Just to let y'all know..... in hopes of getting this trans to last just a bit longer, and maybe even work just a little bit better in the mean time, I went ahead and bought 4 quarts of ATF and a quart of Lucas Transmission Fix, drained what would come out of the trans pan and put the new ATF and Trans Fix in. Total waste of time and money. Operates exactly as it did before the exercise. I never have believed in snake oils and I doubt I ever will. I'll be in touch. Mike V.

Thank you VERY much triple seven. I have read (or alt least scanned) through the end wrench articles and I have looked at lots of A/T threads in the archives and I have researched ny Haynes manual and NOWHERE else did I find the instructions you provided as to how to extract data from the TCU! From looking at your photo, I am tempted to conclude that the ECU on the 1992 Legacy is not below the glove box as it is on my 1997 Legacy. Correct? Perhaps the ECU and the TCU are located on the driver's side under-dash on the 1992? Another question/comment: The instructions you posted for reading the TCU codes refer to the "Power Lamp". I noticed that some end wrench articles referred to the Power Lamp while otheres referred to the AT Oil Temp lamp. Did they change the nomenlature at some point? I apologize for not knowing what the lamp is called on my 1992 but I do not drive the car. In fact, I don't normally drive either of the Subarus that I maintain. But I do drive by boxer power (VW). Thanks again! Mike Vanderzanden

Me again. While I am searching for a replacement auto. trans. and hoping for th weather to "warm up" a bit so I can throw it in, I was wondering about the electronics accociated wih this system. I understand there is a microprocessor based Transmission Control Unit (TCU) somewhere in the vehicle and of couse I am only too aware of the Engine Control Module (ECM), although my dealings with the ECM have been only on my OBD-II equipped '97 Legacy. The only manual I have for the '92 is a Haynes and it does not address the TCU (nowhere does it even mention "TCU"). Anyway, the current questions are: 1. Is there a way to interrogate the TCU to see if anything is bothering it? 2. Can I get any transmission related information from the ECM/OBD-I? Thanks again! Mike V.

John said: "this is not a recommendation but a possibility, and only good for some one with survival skills, willing to be stranded in the dead of winter a long way from home. it maybe possible to drive this car for a while by starting in 1, shifting into 2 and running up the speed to about 40 - 50 or more and then shifitng into D. but again it won't work for long, and it will leave you stranded eventually." Which perfectly backs up what I had said previously: "Oh yeah, you cannot start off in D. The engine will just race. You have to put it in 2 (or 1) and once you get up to about 35 mph, you can do the gentle shift into D. If speed drops too low (I'm going to say below about 20 mph), for example to take a sharp turn, you have to drop it back down to 2 until you regain sufficent speed." And this is what I have the kid doing until I come up with the "proper" used transmission. He will not be any more than 20 miles from home. Now to start researching what is available locally for used transmissions and how much flexibility I have as far as year, trans model number, etc. My Haynes manual doesn't even mention a "TCU". Where is that bugger located? Is it plug-connected like the ECU/ECM? Thans all. Onward. Mike V.

So, gentlemen, do I understand that the bottom line consensus here is that this is (almost) definitely an internal, mechanical problem with the transmission and that the most practical, and in fact the cheapest, solution is to replace the tnasmission and the TCU should also be replaced?

I'm sorry guys but I am dense and I guess I also am prone to beating dead horses (you should remember from previous threads...). PLEASE note that I am not questioning anyone's expertise, I just am trying to understand and also I want to make sure that I am describing the situation well enough to understand. I appeciate how easy it is to get off track in an on-line troubleshooting session. So here goes a shot at very specific questions: The car does drive in D. What "gear" do you think I am in at that point? If I remeber correctly, the tach read something like 2500 rpm while vehicle speed was something like 50 mph. The car does nothing when you select 3. It doesn't matter whether the car is stopped or rolling at any speed when you select 3. As soon as you select 3, the engine just revs. At one point I did say "Putting transmission in "D" (Drive) does not "engage" transmission. Acts like is in neutral. Putting in "3" has same result. Putting in "2" does drive the car, as does "1". " HOWEVER, further testing revealed that if I got up to speed in 2, let off the gas, selected D and gently reapplied gas, it DOES drive in D. But if I give it too much gas at any point, the engine will "disengage" and rev without driving the car. 4EATs come in both 2WD and FWD versions? Who is Phil? Gratefully, Mike

Yeah, I was pretty much resigned to facing a transmission swap... But please elighten me as to what it was that led you to that conclusion. Something in my most recent post? I thought I had described that the transmission was slipping in my original post... My selector has 1-2-3-D so I guess it is a four speed. Since I don't get any drive with the stick in 3 but I can coax it into pulling the car along in D, are you suggesting that the 3rd "gear" clutch is shot but the whatever "clutches" it into 4th is not? Mike V.

Thanks for the comments nip! OK, I gather from your comments that this is a 3 speed transmission (I told you I was ignorant about automatics!). So when you are asking about the characteristics of its operation in third, you must be asking about how it operates in D. And the answer to your question is that when it shifts into third (with selector in the D position) you have to be light on the throttle and increase throttle opening gradually as vehicle speed picks up. If you give it to much "gas", it disengages and revs. I thought I had covered this in my previous post. By the way, putting the selector in position 3 does nothing. The engine just revs. This is regardless of whether you try it from a standstill or while rolling along at any speed. What method are you suggesting for checking the coolant characteristics. Visually? Chemical analysis? Thanks again. Mike V.

Good day Subaru people. Here is additional data from last nights freezing cold session: Car had not been run for 24 hours. Was sitting outside. About 11 degrees F ambient temp. Started engine, moved car about 30 feet (close to garage) and let it idle a good 5 minutes. Cycled transmission through all "gear" positions as recommended by Haynes manual (without moving the car). Checked ATF level. The fluid looked nice and cherry red and did not smell burnt to me (who has never worked with/on an automatic transmission before). Basically, looked and smelled like the new Dexron III I had on hand. However, the level appeared low. It was below the lowest mark on the COLD side of the dip stick. The fluid was barely warm. I decided to drive the car a bit before adding any fluid just to make sure it did not appear low just because it was cold. As I mentioned before, the car will drive in position 1 or position 2 but not in 3 or D. Reverse also works fine. Anyway, I took off in 2 and drove about 5 miles (pretty gently; never exceeded about 3500 rpm). Towards the end of my test drive I tried 3 and D. 3 was totally unresponsive (engine free to rev) but I noticed that if I took my foot off the throttle, shifted from 2 to D, paused, then GENTLY opened throttle (i.e. "gave it gas"), I could feel the trans attempting to pull the car! I was actually able to cruise at speed in this fashion. However, if I were to attempt too much gas peddle, the trans would "disengage" and the engine would race. It would "recouple" if I let off the gas and GENTLY reapplied it. Got the picture? When I got back home, I checked the fluid. This time, the fluid level appeared to be all the way up into the good zone on the HOT side of the dip stick (i.e. between the high and low level marks on the hot side). The fluid was still barely warm. Closer inspection of the dip stick, however, revealed what appeared to be "dry" spots along the length of the stick that at first appeared to be immersed in fluid. But I couldn't be sure if it was just that the fluid was getting wiped off the stick as I pulled it from the tube. So I dried the stick off and checked it again. I did this several times with basically the same results. That is, first glance indicated fluid was in the correct level zone but closer inspection showed "dry spots", or "dry" lines well below the low level line. REALLY hard to say. I decided to add fluid. I ended up adding close to a pint of Dexron III. After driving and rechecking level, I had essentially same result: First glance at the stick indicated level was good (it never was ABOVE the full line) but you could always detedct spots that appeared "dry" if you looked closely enough. The performance was same after adding fluid. I ended up taking my kid for a ride and showed him how it was possible to nurse the car along in drive and let him try his hand. He seemed to "get it" so I told him he could drive the car WHEN AND WHERE NECESSARY. My suspicion is that I will need to replace the transmission but I am hoping to put it of until the driveway temperature is at least in the 20s!! Oh yeah, you cannot start off in D. The engine will just race. You have to put it in 2 (or 1) and once you get up to about 35 mph, you can do the gentle shift into D. If speed drops too low (I'm going to say below about 20 mph), for example to take a sharp turn, you have to drop it back down to 2 until you regain sufficent speed. I have more questions and comments about waht nipper and John write above , but I'll leave it here for now. Does this help pinpoint the problem??? Thaks a million guys. Mike

Oops, Skip did mention the TCU. Sorry Skip. Anyway, what are the chances this IS controls (electric) related and how might I troubleshoot it? Mike V (who is not relishing the thought of spending this weekend laying in the driveway during the current FRIGID conditions....)

I have been scanning this forum for automatic transmission related threads and I see lots of references to the "TCU" (which I believe is an electronic transmission control unit) as well as solenoids and other electric/electronic wizardry. Yet no one who has commented on my particular problem has mentioned anything to do with electricity. Is it clear that my problem is definitely mechanical? Also, can anyone tell me what the model of transmission I would have? Again, it is a 1992 Legacy, 2-wheel drive. One salvage yard I spoke with today said that I need a trans from a 1992 car. 1991 and 1993 used different units. Does this ring true? Thanks, Mike V.

Skip, No flashing lights. I don't recall ever seeing an "AT" light. Remember this is a 1992 model. Don't know how much the ECU interacts with the transmission. After the car is driven (in the "2" position) selecting "D" does nothing (just as when the car is stone cold). No wierd noises. Acts like it is in neutral. Reverse works fine. Thanks again for the comments! Mike

I meant to say Sunday night fine, Moday morning N.G. but your point is well taken. The arctic blast took hold! But driving the car for about 20 minutes/10 miles makes no difference in the way the transmission operates. I would think that if this were truly temperature related, it would get better within that operational time frame. Keep in mind it wasn't exactly balmy on Sunday either. I am still wondering how you can get enough "Trans Fix" into the unit without draing some ATF first. If I recall correctly, I think my manual says the level fgoes from the LOW mark to the HIGH mark by adding one pint of fluid.

Wouldn't you effectively have to do as John suggests since just adding the Lucas Trans Fix would overfill the transmission? Does anyone have any other suggestions? Doesn't it seem strange that this happened so suddenly? I have not personally been driving the car but I am told that there was no warning sign (e.g. slipping) - Sunday night it was fine, Tuesday morning its a no-go. Much obliged, Mike V.

Although one never really KNOWS what an unsupervised 17 year old does, I am about as certain as I could be that "neutral drops" or any similar aggressive driving techniques are not something this particular kid would do. I don't believe a problem with one of the drive shafts would show up as a problem in DRIVE but not in "1" or "2". Can you explain your reasoning? Any other suggestions, please?? Thanks agin, Mike V.

All of a sudden, my kid's 1992 Legacy has developed the following symptoms: Putting transmission in "D" (Drive) does not "engage" transmission. Acts like is in neutral. Putting in "3" has same result. Putting in "2" does drive the car, as does "1". I checked the fluid level. Level was just above the "L" mark on the dipstick with the engine warmed up to operating temp but the transmission still cool since it is about 15 degrees F outside and I only drove the car around the block. I did notice that there appeared to be very tiny bubbles in the fluid on the dip stick (in case that is of interest). I checked the level with the engine idling. Any ideas? Thanks for any comments/suggestion! Mike V.