bendecker

Help, please. My '96 legacy will run fine for a very long time, but on rare occasions (once every month or two), it will lose power going up a long steep hill. I keep giving it gas and it keeps slowing down. Of the last 6 or so times it has done this, it had me pulling off the road as it sputtered to a stall. I did a restart, it sputtered just a bit, then seemed fine. (The other time, it came painfully back to life while still driving.) Background: 1. 1996 Legacy, AT wagon. 2. 260K Miles 3. New MAF, NGK plugs, NGK wires, Autozone fuel filter, Ebay Special knock sensor, junkyard coil and Bosh downstream 02 sensor (all 2 months ago) 4. New OEM fuel pump (1 year ago) 5. Did a vacuum check for a clogged exhaust. No obvious problems found. 6. Checked for vacuum leaks, no obvious problems found. 7. No CEL. My guesses at this point are: 1. Partially clogged CAT? Maybe some pieces that are not in the way at slow speeds, but when the throttle is wide open on a long hill and it's blowing tons of air through the system, they clog the cat. (How would I check for this?) 2. Some type of fuel delivery issue? If fuel can't quite keep up, the system would "refill" when the car is restarted. I have not actually checked the fuel pressure. Again, I have a close to brand new OEM pump and new filter. 3. Fuel pickup problem? Partial clog? The car had a bit less than 1/4 tank this last time, if that makes a difference. Don't know what it had in it the other times. 4. Something wonky with the ecu that resets when the car is restarted? Any opinions? Thanks.

ARRRGH!!!!!! I don't drive the car often (we have newer cars that the fam likes better), but when I've driven it over the last couple of months, it's worked fine (despite the slight hesitation at startup). Until today... It crapped out going up a long, hard hill. I kept pressing the gas and could feel the power slowly slipping away. Having been through this before, I knew what to do: I pulled over before it completely died, turned off the ingnition, then started t back up and went up the hill. I think it's a fuel starvation issue and will start another thread on it.

We can just barely squeak out 29 on a road trip with our '96, but 28 is really the norm. Mixed is between 22 and 23.

I don't know if it's any help or not, but my '96 has always had this really funky smell when starting up. I don't know if backing up is related since we always back up a steep driveway after starting it so I have nothing to compare it to. It's kind of a sour chemical smell that goes away after driving a bit. It's always passed smog with flying colors.

Hopefully, this isn't in the way too obvious category, but no one mentioned how to get to the nut in the first place. First, disconnect your battery.Then, push on the center horn piece like you are honking your horn, but harder. At the same time, turn the piece to the right. It will pop right off. BTW, I've never seen a nut back there that I had trouble getting off so, if that's your problem, I'm curious about the situation. Finally, I agree with Datsunrides that after you get the nut off, you just wiggle the wheel and it should come off with a little persistence.

My first choice would to be replacing the oil pan with a junkyard special. Cheap, quick, done. That being said, we punched a hole slightly bigger than a pinhole in our legacy's gas tank 7 years back (driving way too fast on a dirt road in a car with no clearance - DOH!). We were in the middle of nowhere, so we cleaned the hole while gas literally dripped out of it. Then we mixed a small amount of JBW and let it setup to where it was just starting to get thick. We pushed the thick JBW into the hole to stop the leak. A bit later, we cleaned the heck out of the first JBW patch and surrounding area, and roughed it all up with sand paper. Finally, we put another patch of JBW over the mini patch patch and surrounding area. Long story, short, the hole in the tank was patched over 7 years ago and we've never had a problem with it.

I'd try a 3M headlight restoration kit. It runs on your drill and goes from one grit to another, finer each time, finally, ending with a polishing sponge that I put McGuires on. I don't know the roughest grit off the top of my head, but I'd bet you could work out some pretty good scratches with it before moving through the rest of the polishing process. I just did the headlights on my '96 again (a thick film of yellow degraded plastic all over them) and they look great.

As far as additives go, I've found that on really high mileage cars (mine have 225k and 260k) the lucas injector cleaner make a very noticeable difference in mileage. Doesn't seem to do boo-squat in lower mileage cars, at least for me. For small engine storage, I run them dry, then put some coleman fuel in them and run them dry again. That stuff leaves no residue/varnish at all and I've never had a problem since I started doing that. I also put stabil in everytime I buy gas for them. I've had way to many carbs gum up on me in the past, so I don't take any chances anymore.

Bratman2 -- mine is actually looking great for its age. The crack is between the defrost vent and the windshield, so I can't complain too much. Looks much better than what's underneath it.

I've always wanted to try glassing a dash -- keep it looking stock, but crack free. Have you done anything like that? Or, a thin dash cover like the old coverlay ABS ones (I have one, but it's cracking after quite a few years). There would be a lot of demand for that.

I had a long thread on this a while back (along with other nasty symptoms -- horrible hesitation at startup). I changed the MAF and the coil and the problem appears to have gone away (knock on simulated wood interior pieces). In my case, the car would completely shutdown for a few seconds, then come back to life. If you're interested in the whole sordid story: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/149756-hard-deceleration-at-65mph-when-let-off-the-gas-transmission/?hl=deceleration

one word: bait We generally use traps (the kind with the big yellow triggers) with peanut butter, but sometimes you just can't catch them. I then grind up a bit of dry dog food with a couple of bait pellets and put it in the engine compartment in a bowl. Problem solved. BTW, I don't like bait as a first line of attack, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

You were spot on with the harness being the problem. The sensor was put in fine, it was the other end of the harness that was not plugged in properly. Pilot error on my part. DOH!! (I hate it when that happens...) But I've saved a lot of money by doing all this myself and have learned a ton about the car, fuel injected engines, etc. (I've never really worked on it, unlike my '81 Brat, which I have always done everything on). On a side note, there appears to be a spliced-in wire the full length of the harness and there was some electrical tape wrapped around all of the wires on both ends, just before they went into the end connectors (I can't imagine it looking like that from the factory). I cleaned everything up, removed the skanky old electrical tape, and replaced it with some good quality heat-shrink tubing. I drove it quite a while (mostly surface streets) and no CEL, no major issues. Gaining confidence, but need more time on the freeway at speed before I'll let my wife or kid drive it.

Got the O2 sensor, jacked up the car and found that the old one was not even finger tight. It was actually loose by about 1/2 turn. So, it was the easiest under car part replacement I've ever had. The old one was a bosch as well. Exact same part number. So... I'm guessing it had been replaced at least once. That's the good news. The bad news is the car threw the same code after driving it about 10 miles. AAAARRRRGH!!! Now, I'm thinking that the wires were fragile under there the first time I unhooked the rear O2 and they need some TLC. So... looking for some time to jack it up again and take a really good look. I have not tested the old sensor with an ohm meter, but I would bet it's fine. Oh well. Stuff happens. The car is still running much better than when this all started. Just a hint of hesitation at startup and none of the really bad intermittent symptoms like hard deceleration and outright dying -- yet. I haven't driven it enough to be 100% confident, though.

Agreed and already ordered on from Rock Auto. Bosch. $59.00 delivered. I'm pretty sure the one in there is original, so it had a good run.

Drove it hard and long today. Other than the very small burp on startup and a bit less power than I remember, it drove fine and had no issues for 50 or so miles. In the afternoon, I took it to run an errand and the CEL came on. P0141 -- heating element in the rear O2 sensor. Could be because I monkeyed with it the other day (unplugged, then plugged back in). Could be going bad. Looks like I need to jack up the car again.

I am definitely going to be testing both O2 sensors when time permits. I have two ohm meters, so I'm good to go. Specs and pin-out are in my repair manual. And, I will definitely be driving the car hard during testing :-)

The knock sensor was replaced with one from Ebay about 200 miles ago (should have mentioned that before, but forgot about it). The old one was the original OEM and had a cracked case.

Put in the "new" coil (used ebay special) and pulled off the battery terminal for a hard reset. There was a dramatic improvement in the hesitation at takeoff after that. Now there is just a hint of hesitation -- nothing like before. At this level, I'm reminded of a video series by Erik The Car Guy on YouTube (great channel), where he kept trying to track down a hint of hesitation at startup. It ended up being a skipped tooth on the timing belt. I'll be doing a timing belt in the next few weeks (belt, tensioners, oem thermostat -- first time attempt on that project) and am curious to see if everything is lined up properly. I have not taken it on a long drive to check for the hard deceleration or the freeway shutdown from hell. Frankly, I'm hesitant to drive with anyone else in the car until I have more confidence in it. So, will likely take a long drive in the next few days with just me in it. If I were to make up a story about what's happened to date, it would be: 1) Hard clunk at startup and continued clunking/shudder at slow speeds: new rear propeller/driveshaft (fixed before this thread). 2) Very strong buck on startup that was so bad it felt like a transmission problem: coil and probably the MAF made it worse. 3) Complete shutdown on the freeway: I'm hoping this was the MAF, but need more testing. I'll post more results so the next poor sap that has these symptoms can see what was done to get my '96 rolling again. As always, thanks for the input.

Thanks for the tip on the battery neg side. I have just been using my scan tool to reset everything. And, just checked on RockAuto and a new downstream O2 sensor by bosch is $55.79. For that price, throwing in a new one sounds like the way to go. I have no idea when it was last changed, if ever, and 260K on a part is more than a good run. Didn't check it across the pins. Will do that as time allows. Thanks for all the help from everyone. Very appreciated.

None of the wire/coil/plug issues you mentioned apply. They were all swapped out less than 500 miles ago and everything was done as pointed out. (Great tips, BTW) I decided to check the coil today. Primary wiring appeared to be out of specs (should be .73 ohms, max, but was 1.8 ohms). But, down at those levels, I did not completely trust my multi-meter, so I tried it on another one -- 1.0 ohms. Then I checked the secondaries. Easy check and both were in specs, but after I put the boots back on and did a few things, I forgot exactly what the numbers were (doh! Getting old...). So, I pulled off the boots again for a quick check. Open circuit on both. What?!?!? Did everything I could to rule out poorly placed probes. Got a flash here and there on the meter, but nothing steady. So, I tried the other meter with longer probes. Same thing. Just for grins, I put the spark plug wires back on the coil and pulled them off at the plug ends and did a check through the wires (thinking the ends in the coil might push out the cups and force a connection). Same thing. Tried the test on my '93. Perfect. So, a new (used) coil is on order through ebay -- $20.00 delivered. I also jacked up the car and disconnected the rear O2 sensor. Seemed to be no noticeable change when gunning it in the driveway (although the car is currently running a bit better for no apparent reason). Didn't take it for a drive. Will do that test again with a full, long test drive if the new coil doesn't fix it.

Yes. The acceleration problem is still there. I unplugged it while running. Oops... it died right away. Then, I unplugged it before starting and, yes, it ran worse. Hmmmm it purrs when at idle and, generally runs fine at anything above an idle (except those few times where it died). It's the transition from idle to rolling that is the main symptom. If I manually push on the throttle gently and slowly from the engine compartment, it chugs at the transition, then seems to run fine. If I try to gun it, it is far worse and sounds like it would stall, but then it smooths out to normal. Does that still point to a possible bad O2 sensor? The "upstream oxygen sensor" was replaced by my mechanic a couple of years ago when it failed smog. The reports says it was "acting erratically". (It did, however, pass smog fine about 2 months ago.)

Did a couple of things: 1. Put in a new MAF. (1 Lucky Texan -- I unplugged the old one it and it ran worse. ) 2. Did a vacuum check for a clogged exhaust. No obvious problems found. BUT, during the exhaust check, I discovered that #2 seems like an engine stumble problem from a stop (although it really felt like a tranny engagement problem). When doing the test, I manually hit the throttle and the stumble was really obvious and 100% repeatable. 3. Sprayed all the vacuum lines to check for a leak. No evidence of one. I have not take it for any long drive where I could feel the hard deceleration problem or sudden death problem. Maybe the coil...? Fuel Injectors..? I think my next test will be fuel pressure, although I'd be surprised if it is low because of the new fuel pump and filter. [ For anyone just looking at this thread: all new plugs (NGK), wires (NGK), fuel filter (all about 500 miles ago) and an OEM fuel pump about 15k ago. ]

Turns out there are a ton of used oem MAF sensors on Ebay. I think I'll buy one and throw it in.

We've used a Yakima roof rack on our 1996 Legacy wagon for years. It's fast to put it on and pull it off and is very strong. Be prepared for a little wear where the hooks attach, though. We also have a rocket box that attaches to it. Very good, but expensive racking system. I have no experience with the Thule racks. If you have an REI near you, they sell Yakima racks and are -- at least down here -- very helpful in letting you check them out and see if you like them.