mnwolftrack

I asked this question myself because I'm used to having to replace the headbolts on other motors. However, I couldn't even find aftermarket head bolts, and the consensus was to re-use the head bolts. The heads and block are aluminum, while the bolts are steel. If anything is going to give, it ought to be the block threads stripping out. I re-used the headbolts on my '98 2.5L. In fact, they were some of the cleanest looking bolts I've ever seen. Again, I'm used to seeing steel bolts in steel blocks, and I often see carbon crust, oil, and rust on the headbolts. The Subi bolts looked great.

then I would suggest http://www.car-part.com. It's an online salvage yard database nationwide. You can search the entire country or by state. Even if you don't find a tank, you can at least find yards that list your make and model car (by searching other parts) and give them a call or send an E-mail (tip, search yards in the south that should have rust-free stuff). They don't necessarily list every part online, so you may not see a gas tank even though it's available. You can also try http://www.junkyarddog.com. It's similar to car-part.com except you make the request via online form, and it is mailed out to salvage yards and they respond back to you via E-mail. You will get a lot of generic replies though, some of them will not even mention the part you are looking for or how much they want. They will just tell you to call them. Other replies will be more specific and give you pricing.

I wouldn't know anything about Auburn Subaru. I just bought my parts last week at 10% shipping costs. I just checked the site again at: https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/policy.html and it still says 10% shipping costs for UPS ground. The only 15% I see is for a restocking fee.

I recommend http://www.1stsubaruparts.com. They are a dealer in Washington state and sell at well below retail. Shipping costs are 10% of the order. I just bought from them a couple weeks ago and I'd do it again. They have an online catalog (parts diagrams even) and you can either check to see if it's online or just call them.

There's at least one car out there with an automatic transmission that has no gears. I forget which car, but I'd like to say it was a Nissan or Honda. I recall seeing advertising for it at least a year ago. The TV ad touted how there was no shifting of gears, no jerky shifts, etc.... I have no idea what technology was used, but perhaps the upcoming trend is to just design things that are different, e.g. not a 4 or 5 speed automatic. Besides, the U.S. seems to think more = better, so there may also be a touch of marketing being done.

I would agree, that as automatic transmissions get more and more sophisiticated, the mpg discrepency between auto vs. manual is decreasing and in some cases reversing roles. I've seen a few EPA ratings lately that showed manual vs. automatics tied, and a few of them were even showing the auto getting 1 or 2 mpg better than the manual. My heart still belongs to manual transmissions though. Way more fun to drive and safer to drive in slippery conditions. Downshifting in 4WD or AWD is much better than braking. While you can technically downshift an automatic, you cannot control how long it takes for the torque converter to fully lock. With a manual transmission, you can milk the pedal and create slow grab time during incliment weather to minimize slippage.

I must have read it then. I officially joined the board in September 2006, but I reviewed the board as a guest for a while before that.

I see--if your post was a few years or more back, I doubt I looked back that far. I'm on dialup internet so searching is slow, and information that far back can often be outdated or no longer valid. I may have read it though. I did a lot of reading on this board before I even bought my first OBW in order to research the problems I could expect.

I didn't think to use the breaker bar! I should have tried it (I own several), though it sure didn't seem like I could get much of anything in there. Had I known it would have taken 3 hours, I would have pulled the drive axle and made life much easier. I've had problems with that before too, such as trying to get the pin out of the axle shaft and getting the nut off the lower ball joint and breaking it loose. I used a 6 point 14mm shallow socket (12 point likes to strip things), a 3/8" swivel joint, and three 8" extensions to the ratchet from below. This worked for the second disassembly on the driver side, but not the first time. The first time, I had to put a 6 point basic wrench on the bolt, stand a pipe up on the other end up through the engine bay, and whack it loose with a 5lb sledge hammer to break it loose. Once it was loose, it came off rather easily from below with the extensions and socket. For the passenger side, I just used a ratcheting 14mm wrench from above. I couldn't see the nut, but I could easily get my hand down there to feel it and get the wrench on. I did have the torque converter move and get pulled out once, which is why I recommended pushing it back first. The small input shaft on the end of the t/c was rusted a bit and was a bit stuck in the end of the crank. Put a tiny amount of grease on it, and you won't have to worry about it again if you have to ever pull the motor again (such as to replace an improperly installed rear main seal).

How old is your post? I don't know if I've read that one, and I don't remember reading anything about the problem I found with the black material eing eroded away (but the 3 layers of steel being intact along with the head and block surfaces being good).

I just did the headgasket job myself on our '98 DOHC OBW and have a theory regarding at least "some" of the headgasket failures on this nasty 2.5L engine. So, I thought I'd run it by you. I don't know what the original "composite" headgaskets looked like, but I do know that the headgaskets I pulled from this engine were not the original. And I know this because one of the cylinder heads had a heat tab applied to it (machine shops put these on). The headgaskets that I pulled from this motor were 3 layers and appeared to be all metal, but they were not the same as the new multi-layer-steel (MLS) headgaskets I just bought from 1stsubaruparts.com. The new headgaskets are like 5 layers of equal thickness metal. The gaskets I pulled were 3 layers, and the middle layer was much thicker. Another noticable difference was that the new headgaskets were bare metal on the surfaces with exception of a silver-like coating applied around the fire rings. However, the failed 3 layer headgasket surfaces had a black (plastic?) coating over their entire surfaces. This coating was cracked/broken/absent in the failed areas. The failure occurred in the "typical" spots: the passenger cylinder head at the bottom of the cylinder walls where there are two small water ports in the head gasket. It's almost like the black coating failed and created a gap for the combustion gases to leak through. Has anyone else noticed this? The cylinder heads and block surfaces were not eroded at all. If anything, they had a slight build up of carbon at the failure points just like on the tops of the pistons. I've read about other theorys on this board regarding head gasket failures including wobbling cylinders due to lack of stiffeners or supports built into the block, weak composite head gaskets, exhaust manifolds in close proximity to the bottoms of the cyinder heads and head gaskets, and more. But I wonder if this is responsible for at least some of the failures? I wonder how common the type of headgasket is/was that I removed? Are these 3-layer "steel" headgaskets I removed an aftermarket brand or some sort of intermediate "updated" OEM headgasket? They didn't look composite to me. When I think of composite, I think of the graphite flakie stuff I've seen used with other headgaskets that gouges and bends real easy. To show my protest against these failed 3-layer headgaskets, I even tried to roll them up into a wad and stomp on them but was unable to do so. The middle metal layer was too thick. I had to put the headgaskets in a vice and squished them into joyful shapes (it made be feel a LOT better!).

The nice part is, this motor is VERY easy to remove and I think Subaru actually put some thought in it? I'd rather they had put some of that "thought" into better headgaskets, but oh well. Anyway, I didn't believe boardmember grossgary when he said he removed this type of motor in 2 hours. When I had to pull the engine the second time for the main seal leak, I got it out in 1 hour 50 minutes. Reinstallation took about 2.5 hours due to having to use the torque wrench and clean things and slowly burp the cooling system during filling.

I just removed and reinstalled our '98 2.5L twice. The first time was for headgasket replacement. The second time was for replacing the rear main seal AGAIN. MAKE SURE TO SEAT IT CORRECTLY! I have another thread I just posted a couple days ago about this. The image that someone else posted in your thread showing the rear main seal depth is correct. Be very careful not to drive it in too far! It is NOT a redundant seal, and oil will P*SS out if it's in too deep or crooked. Other than that, everything was pretty straight forward. This is the easiest engine I've ever pulled. It took me 1 hour 50 minutes to pull, and 2.5 hours to reinstall. It's pointless to remove the hood. I didn't even move the hood prop. I hooked a strap to the hood latch and hooked the other end to the roof rack and set the hood standing straight up. It's also a waste of time to completely remove the a/c compressor and power steering pump. Just remove the bolts from each and bungee them out of the way. I place the power steering pump (right side up) in the air filter box lower housing. I place the a/c compressor flopped over in the battery tray or on the strut tower depending on where I am working. The bottom starter nut is a 17 mm. It is the most easy to reach from underneath. The worst part of the whole project for me was getting the two stupid 14mm nuts loose at the bottom of the bell housing where it bolts to the engine. The worst one was the driver side. The steering shaft and drive axles are in the way and it was 3 hours of fun trying not to strip the nut. The passenger side wasn't quite so bad because it can be more easily reached from above. My recommendation would be to try breaking these two nuts loose first before starting anything else. And before you try that, soak them good with some lube first. There's also absolutely no reason to disconnect the intake. It can very easily be pulled with the engine. In fact, pulling the intake takes a lot more time because of several hard-to-reach hoses and electrical connections, and the EGR tube. Leave the intake intact. There are still a few vaccuum lines you will have to disconnect, but not many. If your '97 is like our '98, there's a small vacuum line from the passenger fender well to the backside of the passenger side of the intake. There is also the brake booster hose. Both of these are easy. There are 3 electrical plugs on the top of the passenger side of the transmission that run to all the electronics on the engine. You will need to disconnect these, and disconnect the engine ground strap from the top of the driver side cylinder head (it should be on the front-most intake bolt). So technically, you will have to remove one of the intake bolts to remove the ground strap. I also have no idea why you'd want to remove the front bumper. You WILL want to remove the radiator so it doesn't get damaged when you slide the engine forward. Removal is easy--just remove the top two 12mm bolts and the two 10mm overflow tank bolts. I recommend removing the tank first because it will allow you to gain access to the tranny cooler lines that run to the driver side of the radiator. I also recommend finding or buying a couple pieces of similar size hose and place them over the connectors on the radiator tranny cooler ports so that the tranny fluid doesn't spill out. I placed a small bolt in one end of the hose, then shoved the other end of the hose over the connector. Then, for the other half of the line that is still in the car, I just ran a bolt into that hole to keep the tranny fluid in. Hopefully this makes sense. "While you are in there" you may also want to consider replacing the front input shaft seal on the transmission and the goofy torque converter shaft graphite "c-clip" style seal. These are dealer only seals but are about $15 worth of good insurance. If you haven't dealt with the torque converter removal and reinstallation before, you will want to read up on it. In fact, you may want to do what I did. Remember when I said to push the t/c back with a small screwdriver just before you start pulling the engine away? As soon as I got the engine about 1/2" away, I again stuck a screw driver down there, now between the gap between engine and transmission, and made sure the t/c was all the way back. Then, I drew a marker line on the outermost part of the t/c mounting bolt flange to mark it's depth compared to the front face of the bell housing. That way, I could tell if the torque converter was trying to move out at all. As I pulled the engine out, I could watch the t/c and made sure it stayed put. Then once I had enough of a gap, I ran a bolt through the top passenger bell housing hole with a small metal piece i fashioned from some scrap, and I bolted that in place to further hold the t/c in place. The two studs at the bottom of the engine (the ones the two pain-in-the-butt 14mm lower engine-to-transmission nuts attach to) will probably try to catch the t/c and pull it out as you pull the engine away. Lastly, make sure to disconnect the "dog bone" from the top of the transmission, particularly before you start jacking up the transmission and hoisting up the motor. They won't go very far with the dog bone in place. I disconnected one end of it (from the transmission) and used a pry bar and pushed it up and out of the valley it sits in, and moved it off to one side. I found that leaving it sit in it's valley causes it to hang up and prevent from jacking up the transmission/engine. Overall, the project is pretty easy. I've spent A LOT more time on other types of engines. The worst part of working on this car was those two lower engine-to-transmission bolts, and me incorrectly seating the rear main seal too deep. Other than that, it wasn't bad at all. I've always removed the torque converter bolts through the inspection hole up top. Never tried from below but from up above has always been easy. I can have one hand on a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt, and another hand on a wrench removing the t/c bolts. There are a couple of electrical connectors and small hoses you will want to temp. move out of the way to gain better access here. When you are ready to hoist the engine out, put a jack under the transmission and jack it up a few inches as you hoist the motor up a few inches. This will give you some clearance to get the engine mount studs out of the cross member and give you some wiggle room from other things. Before you actually start pulling the motor away, put a screwdriver or small prybar between the torque converter and flex plate via the top inspection hole. You should be able to easily push the torque converter back about a quarter inch. This will help in keeping the torque converter from sliding out with the engine (it's a bit of a pain to slide back in). For what It's worth, I TRIED to follow the Hayne's manual but ended up writing my own steps. I had 30 steps in all and was much easier to follow. As previously mentioned, use masking tape and a marker to label all hoses and wires you disconnect. It's not important to label exactly what they are, rather, just label each end of the two pieces the same. I used letters, and the end of a hose was labeled "A" and the spot the hose was to hook up to was also labeled "A". Then I wrote a step in my procedure that I disconnected hose "A" and so on. If your a/c compressor is the same design as ours, you may find this tip a bit helpful. The compressor has a goofy small bracket at the bottom that bolts into the head with one 14mm bolt pointing straight down. The two long lower a/c compressor bolts mount sideways (pointing towards the center of the engine) through the other end of the bracket. I couldn't get the two lower bolts all the way out as-is, and I had to leave them in place but unbolted from the much larger compressor mounting bracket and left them in place in the small bracket and compressor and pulled it all out as one unit. Reinstallation required the reverse procedure in which I had to run the two lower bolts through the small bracket, then through the compressor, then drop it all in place.

I noticed on mine after removing the seal I drove in too far that not only was there nothing to stop it from going in too far, but there were two changes in diameter of the crank surface visible through the opening there (in other words, the crank got more narrow via 2 step changes the further in you went). I must have drove the seal in to the 1st diameter change and the seal was not making good contact. It was obvious that it was leaking around the inner crank sealing surface and not the block sealing surface. I put the motor back in yesterday with the second new seal, let it idle for an hour as I cleaned up the mess I made in the garage, and took it for a test drive. No more leaks--whew! This is the first seal I've seen on several engines I've worked on that you can actually drive it in too far. The Haynes manual only mentions setting the seal to the depth of the previous one. Well, what if the previous one wasn't set correctly.... There's nothing to even keep the seal to be driven in straight in the first place. Both new seals that I drove in didn't want to be driven in perfectly flush. I had to tap at alternating spots because it kept going off-kilter.

Yeah, I paid full price at about $30 each, times two..... Luckily, no more leaks now and it runs like a champ!

I just learned this the hard way putting my 2.5L back into our '98OBW last night. I had pulled the motor a week ago as a result of the usual head gasket problem and had the heads checked over by a machine shop. The rear main seal wasn't leaking, but I figured I'd replace it since "I was in there." Well, I apparently wasn't paying too close attention to the depth of the original seal and drove the new seal in way too far. I didn't realize there wasn't anything to stop it from going in too far. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I think I drove the new seal in about half an inch passed flush. It should be sitting much closer to flush, like 1/16" in or so. The result? A great running motor with new updated multi-layer steel headgaskets--and a whopper of an oil leak coming from the back side . Luckily, pulling the motor again only took 2 hours because it was so fresh in my mind and I left the intake assembly on the engine. I should have the engine back in, AGAIN, in a few hours.... Make sure to learn from my mistake!

I can speak from experience because I just pulled my 2.5L twice.... I thought I'd replace the rear main seal just because I was in there, but the main seal wasn't leaking. I drove the new seal in too far (didn't realize there was nothing to stop it from going in too far) and had oil pissing out the back last night. I pulled the engine again (did a headgasket job the first time), and have the uninstall down to about 2 hours. Draining the coolant takes the longest, so start that first while you do other work. You will have to decide if you want to pull the engine vs. pull the transmission to change the seperator plate. I personally find pulling the engine easier (I don't have a transmission jack but do have a cherry picker). You will also have to decide if you want to replace any other seals while you are in there, particularly if they are leaking or not. I probably should have left well enough alone and left the main seal as-is. Besides the rear main seal and seperator plate, but there are also a couple seals on the transmission, depending on if you have a 5 speed or automatic. If you have an automatic like my '98, there's a front output shaft seal, and there's a goofy graphite "c-clip" style seal that slides onto the end of the torque converter (you have to pull out the torque converter to get to it). A word of caution on the torque converter--it's tricky to get back in! If it's not back in all the way, you can ruin the transmission when you re-join the engine to transmission. There are previous posts on this subject.

Stupid Haynes manual....it's got me second-guessing myself. I'm about to reassemble my '98 OBW's 2.5L dual cam engine, and the Haynes repair manual reassembly procedure begins with "check the head gasket manufacturer's installation instructions" and use gasket sealant on the gasket "if necessary. Well, the updated OEM Subaru multi-layer steel headgaskets do not come with instructions, and I can't imagine using RTV on a headgasket but I better ask here just in case! 1. We are not supposed to use sealant on the headgaskets anywhere, right? 2. Is the head bolt torque procedure identicle with the new headgaskets? I am just going to follow the Haynes manual unless someone tells me of an updated procedure---a rather silly and complicated procedure, I might add. I already had a ft. lbs. torque wrench, but I had to go out and buy an inch pounds wrench because my ft. lbs. only goes down to 10 ft lbs.

also something to look for if the engine is out or apart, is to look for a "heat tag" on the cylinder heads. Machine shops always put these on when they work on heads. It is a small metal disk with a softer metal core that melts out at certain temperatures. This will tell a shop if the engine overheated at all since the last time the heads were worked on. I learned this just this week when I brought my 2.5L heads in for a checkup while doing a HG job. I thought the engine was original. Nope! It's been worked on before. Only one head had the heat tag, and it was the one that failed again. The gaskets I removed weren't the updated MLS (multi-layer steel) gaskets though. I'm guessing the work was done a long time ago and the same type of gasket was used again.

Grossgary, Was it you that mentioned a while back that the bearings are greasable and that you often do this instead of replacing them, but that you need a special fitting to get the grease into the bearings? If yes, could you elaborate on the special fitting and where to get it? My pulleys are all good, but I might as well grease them while they are out, if at all possible.

Take off eh! Oh wait, that's more Canadian.... How about some lutefisk or a Sven and Ole's Pizza from Grand Marias eh? I think we have an Auto Value here in my town. I will have to check it out when I go pick up a timing belt. I bought most everything from 1stsubaruparts.com, though they messed up the order and I have to send stuff back and get different items. As for porcupine73's--we don't talk like dat here eh! Dey talk like dat way over West of us in Fargo and the Grand Forks, or maybe down there in them Twin Cities!

Interesting read. I have a regular 1/2" drive ft lbs torque wrench, but I noticed in my Haynes manual that the head bolt torque procedure I will need to be doing later this week calls for inch lbs. I was thinking of checking out Northern Tool or Sears. I don't want to be spending a lot of money on this, becuase this is the first time I've ever needed to use one. Head bolts are about the most critical thing to torque on a car, but I'm used to it always being a ft lbs unit.

outbackusjunkus, did you buy chance buy it at a Minnesota Napa? I'm just wondering if this is something I can even expect to find locally (northern Minnesota).

Hello, I'm in the middle of doing a headgasket job on a 1998 OBW 2.5L EJ25. What do you recommend for cleaning the block surfaces? I'm not used to working on aluminum blocks and want to be careful. I'm also not used to such large voids. All other blocks I've worked on were a much more solid surface. I'm not taking the block apart itself and just want to clean the block's head gasket surfaces. The heads will be going into the machine shop, so I'm not going to worry about those.

I'm actually not even able to find head bolts after market (short of Ebay cheapies which I don't trust), so that leads me to believe it's not so critical to reuse the old ones. I will end up calling 1stsubaruparts today. I tried to yesterday but got delayed. I will at least get the main gasket set on order. Stuff like belts and other misc. items I am ok with just getting locally.