mountaingoatgruff

thanks, i know all these logical things. i'm just going out on a limb with my family's financial well being here and i guess i'm looking for reassurance. i'll be driving the extra distance and i really hope the car checks out well. i'm relatively new to subes but i'm already obsessed with my 84 hatch (despite it's problems, all the fault of previous owners! ) and i'm sure whatever legacy i get will be just as fun! also, i looked online at some pics of 93 legacy wagons............ i like the newer ones too but there's just something about the facelifted 92-94's. my favorite sube, after ea81 gl's of course!!

i'll be going to the bay area to check out a 93 legacy L wagon to maybe buy it as my first legacy - ej22, 5speed, awd, 25th anniversary edition. got a couple ?'s the guy is willing to meet me halfway with the car, but that means the car will be all warmed up and have been driving over an hour already. i want a car cold when i check it out, but that mostly applies to carb'd and auto trans cars. are there any potential issues in the awd, brakes or whatever that dissapear at operating temp or after an hour of driving? i want to be absolutely anal retentive here (i got burned on my last car buy and i absolutely can't afford to this time) so no issue or possibility of one is too small to note. i'm already gonna look like a prick when i literaly go down my checklist and test drive the car to bum**** egypt and back, so it wont hurt to add anything to the list. also, what comes with the "25th anniversary edition" badging? the guy seems to be making a really big deal out of that part but from what i've seen it just adds chrome door handles, antenna, and a couple extra emblems. are they special where it matters - underneath? the car is exactly what my wife and i need and its $1000 below blue book for my zip. i'm in a lean time right now and with my son and all i can't afford to buy another car that needs work. i expect to replace the timing belts, do a full tune-up, rotate tires, etc, etc - but that's all i have the cash for!! i think i'll drive an extra hour to feel better about this, what do you guys think? i gotta call the guy back in the next hour or so - naturally, quick replies especially appreciated!! thanks

lets see if i can state my opinion about the whole spfi vs weber thing without stepping on toes... i didn't even consider a weber primarily because of ca laws. i'm more likely to be able to sneak oem subaru spfi parts past a smog tech than a shiny weber with it's obvious lack of emissions equipment that would stick out like a sore thumb under my hood. everybody knows most 80's japanese cars are stuffed to the gills with vacuum and emissions crap, especially smog techs. almost all of you guys are fortunate enough that you don't have to worry about that though. second, there's the diagnostics point GD made. information is usually more readily available, more clearly defined, and more tried and true for factory setups over mod setups - regardless of the car/mod. that also brings up the fact that spfi is "plug and play" - no trial and error process of tuning (and if tuning these webers is anything like 60's strombergs or holleys, count me out!!) i can see where lots of guys would love the weber setup for the fact that its a sweet carb. my brother and i once changed a perfectly running efi vw over to a dual weber setup just for the novelty of it. ran about the same, probably less reliable - whatever. personally i prefer the look of a clean carb with a chrome filter housing over an intake that's not crowded with junk. i don't mind the extra installation work for spfi cuz my car is a dd, i want the extra bit of mileage and reliability over the novelty.

i am in the process of doing an spfi conversion right now. i hesitate to chime in here, but i know i'd want to hear every perspective available. i have an 84 gl hatchback that i bought recently with the impression that it had a reman'd carb and was running great. i never got to hear it cold before i bought it (long distance purchase). turns out the thing has soooo many problems its unreal. i had an 83 gl wagon when i was 19 that i loved and my only complaint was the carb - it ran like crap when that p.o.s. hitachi wasn't in a good mood. while asking around about my carb, GD suggested i do an spfi conversion. after looking into it i realized it wouldn't cost me much more that to practically replace my whole carb setup and it's fried systems, my ea81 dist was bad, and i realized after getting in there that my intake gaskets were bad, too. i read GD's writeup, thought it'd be doable and took the plunge. with all due respect to GD and the utmost of gratitude for his help, i must say - there's a couple of things i've had to learn and do that aren't even mentioned in his writeup. when you prep the wiring harness, there's more to it than GD wrote. i didn't pull the harness myself so that was most likely my biggest roadblock. also for a guy that knows auto electrical, maybe those things are more apparent but this is my first auto electric project close to this scale. i don't remember off the top of my head what it was but my advice would be that before cutting anything you need to take the time to fully understand what each part of the harness is before the surgery how it should be after - that was 10 hours of referencing, reading, etc. for me. i spent a total of 14 hours on the harness alone! there's no spot for a cc clutch switch in my car - no way, no how. i had to convert to the ea82 clutch pedal and cable (which included grinding off the welded ea81 cable mount and reinforcing the bracket after that), fab up a mounting bracket for the switch (i used a piece of al angle stock), and then relocate my wiper relay to make space for it all. i didn't mind cuz i plan on doing the 5speed swap down the road and i'll use the ea82 cable, but you'd have to be down to do all that if your setup is like mine was. then there's the inevitable unexpected, mostly waiting for parts and running into things you need to research. i found a horribly stripped exhaust stud (which i have yet to fix), a bird's nest of wiring under my dash, broken/defective parts here and there, and i can't remember how many times i've gone to the parts store in the last month. i've been at it over a month now, but i've also spent lots of time fabbing up a new fuel pump shelf, dist hold down plate, and the clutch switch mount. all i really have left is to install my modified clutch assembly, the harness (including splicing, lengthening, etc.), and plumb my fuel lines. i don't want to discourage you because i believe that aside from other factors in my life right now this conversion will prove worth every hour spent on it. i hope to be done in the next few weeks (waiting on parts and help with soldering. i've never done it and i want to know its done proper and learn firsthand from someone with experience). i'll update you when its running if you're still interested.

first - i'm not insulting anyone with mere sarcasm. if somebody feels insulted by that they're just being confrontational. i may not have accounted for the fact that japanese economic and working conditions put ours in the us to shame in many ways (not that its hard to be any better that this country is ending up), but that wasn't my point. point is, whoever did that grinding needs a slappin! second - what did the original assemblers do there? in order to fit the intermediate flanges in there, those castings have to be ground off. so what need would there be for further grinding after that? could it be that this was necessitated by the replacement of the heads/engine with parts that weren't ground? there's been a long trail of things that lead me to believe this engine is not original or ca equipment, the car's not build for ca market, and extensive work has been done to it. i can tell the dash has been completely removed (fortunately the wiring was properly reconnected), the engine&trans have both been pulled, and there's signs of repairs/tampering elsewhere. can you say "sloppy seconds"

uh...gaskets? i had gaskets between each pair of the two flanges, but not between the intermediate flanges and the heads. another dealer only? maybe this time i can make one of my trips to the dealership on a day that i'll have time for some test driving.:cool: i figured i'd be alright to oversize the stud, but i wanted to see if anyone said anything about the structural integrity of the head/exhaust port after doing that. is it normal to see the casting of the lowest & rearmost 10mm headbolt of each head to be ground away so poorly. looks like it was done with a die grinder in about two minutes and you can see above where they nicked the exhaust port surface of the head. those guys must have been making like 12 cents an hour making these cars and i know that's how meeting production quotas can go, but is that factory work?

84 spfi ea81 in the precess of eliminating my air injection system i noticed i have some savage exhaust leaks. both heads are leaking around the intermediate flanges. so i removed the pipes and intermediate flanges. one of the long studs in the driver's head FELL OUT as soon as i popped the nut and bolt loose! the threads were apparently stripped, repaired with a helicoil type product, and stripped again. the damage: you may be able to see in the pic that the metal is distorted around the stud hole. the dark line by the other hole at top of the pic is where somebody got happy with a grinder clearing out the bottom headbolt casting to make space for the a.i. port. nice, huh? the hole is stripped and distorted so bad that you can literally stick the stud in there to the bottom, wiggle it around, and pull it out easy. i'm pretty sure a helicoil won't fix this so i gotta replace my head, right? these engines like both head gaskets replaced if one is just like other engines, right? any other suggestions for repair?

so maybe i will eliminate the system. i've added a new cat and i don't anticipate problems with smog due to my actual emmisions quality. the problems i would expect, if any, center around the fact that my 84 car has a vac diagram under the hood that shows a carb and other things i obviously don't have any more and my muffler has rust pinholes. i'm planning on finding a good aftermarket muffler for it, but i want to wait till cash isn't so tight so hopefully i can squeak that by too. any suggestions on a good low restriction muffler that'll give me that low throb without whining at mid/high rpm's? i HATE glasspacks and the trademark rice rocket sound. i wonder what a mild 2 1/4" flomaster or dynomax would be like under there... the test techs around here don't ask questions. if the tech notices i have efi when it should be carb'ed he'll likely fail me on the spot and sent me to a ref who will then inspect my vehicle. if this happens the ref will be checking to see that my smog equipment is present and functional. i don't know whether they'll expect all available smog reducing components to be working or just those that are part of the spfi system but this is cali and to predict a state official's behavior you just pick the most retarded possibility! couldn't i just block the ports on the undersides of the heads with a bolt and a copper washer or is there something else (that wont require removing the heads) that will be effective to plug them? if it has to be inspected and the ref doesn't see the parts hanging off back there they'll probably be less likely to expect them to be functional so i'd prefer to remove the pipes and valves if i'm not using them.

like i said, i'll be hooking the system up and i'm just asking about the potential effects of eliminating the system. i will be sure that i do everything i can to pass smog legitimately (aside from the fact that the whole spfi thing is kinda illegal), including utilizing the air injection system. let's suppose the engine and all of it's systems/components are operating as intended. i would just like to know if there is a noticeable difference in the way the engine operates if the air injection system is eliminated. is it more powerful or does it use less fuel?

what have you guys with spfi ea81's done with your air injection system? i'm doubtful of how much it actually helps emissions but i plan on hooking it up for my smog check and cuz i really do want to leave a cleaner atmosphere for my son - the biggest reason why i'm ditching my V8. i'm just wondering for future reference if anyone has noticed power or efficiency gains by eliminating the system. seems like the ea would breathe deeper without it, but i don't know how much air those reed valves really let by, with or without the control valves.

i guess this may be another dumb question , but i can't find this thing in my haynes (maybe i just can't find it cuz i don't know what to look for to begin with but the cars in the pics in my edition don't have this part). anyhow, i'm sure plenty of you guys know... what the hell is this thing? its hanging off the back of my driver's shock tower and it looks to be part of my old emissions system. it doesn't seem to serve it's purpose all by itself so please tell me i can scrap this thing since i'm going spfi - i kinda need somewhere to stick that freakin coffee can of a fuel filter. also, this next pic kinda sums up how far along my spfi conversion is. see all the missing parts and loose wires? i put my coil below the battery. this way i can still buy plug wires made for my car and they'll fit the same. the relays are hanging in the wind by the passenger hood hinge for now. i got a piece of 11gauge steel plate to make a base and i'll use an outdoor electrical outlet cover over top of it to enclose the fuel/ign relays and fusible link in there with some leftover space for future expansion (lighting relays or whatever). i also decided to make a new hold down plate out of the leftover 11gauge for the dist instead of opening up the bolt slot. i thought it'd look better is all. should be up and running by the time man develops colonies on the moon!

very good informtion from each of you. i'm not intimidated by doing the maintenance that should've been done all along cuz it never is and i always have to do it. i'm going to look at a 93 on tuesday, if all goes well my wife will be the happy driver of a blue legacy wagon! edit: how lame are the auto trannies in these cars? i always perfer manual in any car but after looking around, there's not too many here. i don't plan on 4 wheeling the car, but i want high gas efficiency and reliability. should i hold out for a 5speed or are the autos not that bad?

my wife and i are looking into buying an early 90's legacy, maybe 93-96 range. we would like to find an awd 5speed wagon with around 150k on the clock and options are always nice (i won't hold my breath for an lsi, though) my question is this: what should i look for in particular on this vehicle? do they have any common issues or especially expensive needs? i know the 2.2's are bulletproof and subaru stickshift trans are hardy so really i mean within the awd system but anything is helpful. i'm just looking for suggestions on places to check besides the normal fluids, suspension, engine state, etc. is there a method to quickly diagnose the state of the awd system? something that i always like to do is take the car on the test drive to autozone if there's one close enough. they'll hook up their diagnostic computer and pull codes for free. even if there's no codes it can be fun and/or informative to observe the owner on the way there! no suggestions will be considered trivial. thanks in advance!

i use acetone at work on a daily basis. i operate a bobst diecutting press manufacturing corrugated containers and folding cartons (boxes). we use things called counter plates to make the folds easier. the counter plates are mounted in the machine using industrial grade contact adhesive. to remove them, we first use a citrus based cleaner to break the glue bond, then acetone to clean the glue and citrus off the counter plates and their mounting surface. the counter plates are made out of a phenolic resin compound for ease of manufacturing and to stand up to the harsh chemical abuse they receive being mounted/removed many times. as they age, the phenolic resin begins to break down under this chemical abuse. my point: the rubbers and plastics used in automotive applications are like styrofoam compared to this phenolic resin against acetone. i'll be damned if any acetone is ever going in any of my gas tanks, let alone as a regular long term additive!! speaking from my experience with 300 and 400 plus cid mopars, instead of worrying about questionable or downright deceptive additives try thinking of ways to improve the volumetric efficiency of the ea engines. you'll notice the benefits of these changes in mileage, performance and engine life.

yeah, ca sucks, and its only getting worse. my brother live in sc and co and i'm sure you'd love to hear the kinda crap they give me for not having moved out of ca already. i planned on moving to wa in less than two years, but lately i've considered co because i have closer family there. about the ecu's: i called vintage subaru in nc and as soon as i got off the phone i kicked myself twice. i've dealt with them before and kept thinking every now and then that i should call them. the gentleman there told me he has part number listings telling which computers correspond to which model/option cars. he assured me that he would be able to find me the correct 87-89 black ecu for a 4wd manual car AND he beat the best price i've had so far for a "guess-which-one" ecu by $20. he'll have an update for me monday and if all is well this beast can be laid to rest and it'll be on to the next...

to explain for grossgary - i'm doing an spfi conversion on my 84 hatch. because i'm in california, i'm worried about whether or not my car will pass smog checks.cali doesn't really allow these kinds of mods but if the smog tester doesn't notice and the car passes, the mod gets overlooked. if my check engine light is on i automatically fail, no ?'s asked. in order to prevent this, i need an ecu which requires input that i'll be able to give it. besides, i don't want my cel on every time i drive my car anyhow - i could miss a cheap opportunity to fix a potentially expensive problem or something like that and my wife would never trust it enough to drive it. i can't feed it a signal from an auto tranny's park switch because i have a 4speed so using an auto car's ecu will likely fail me come smog time. i can't use a later silver ecu because (according to my understanding so far) they require a neutral switch input and a clutch switch input. my car doesn't have either switch. i can rig the neutral switch by using a switch mounted to the clutch pedal but after i rig the neutral switch this way i have no place to put the clutch switch. because the earlier black manual car ecu's (again, according to my understanding so far) don't require both inputs, only the neutral switch input, i need one of these ecu's for my car. i've found a few black ecu's, but the sellers either say they are for years that don't correspond to the info i have received here or they don't know if they're from auto or manual cars. they're just too expensive to buy one and see what happens ($80+ is all i can find). all this adds up to mean i need to figure out what my car really requires and what applications these ecu's i've found will work with - without tripping the check engine light for lack of input from whatever source.

i can't post links because not all of my information comes from the internet. the local parts store has a guy that my father and i have both gone to for parts for years. he has a whole wall of shelf after shelf of parts listing books/catalogs. i've gone to him for things that kragen's, dealerships and junkyards all laugh at me for asking about and he's hardly ever gotten inaccurate information from his books or failed to deliver. i asked him to help me find an ecu for my application (of course i explained exactly what my application is) and he told me he has a supplier with parts available that say "1990-93 Subaru Engine Computer 22611 AA392" - we called the supplier to verify if its a black or silver unit and its black. (my silver 92's part# is 22611 AA395.) according to GD, subaru changed from black ecu's to silver ones in 90 or 91 so why would this black ecu's part listing say its for cars up to 93? also there's many listings on ebay with all sorts of item descriptions. of course, that's ebay so we all know that most of the sellers likely aren't doing their research before writing their item descriptions, but i've contacted a couple that insist they pulled their listed ecu from a particular vehicle with their own hands. one's description matches GD's info and the other doesn't. in situations like this what i usually do is attempt to gather as many opinions as i can (and short of documentation from subaru or an affiliated company - ALL of this is observation based opinion at best) so that hopefully a consensus will emerge that i can use to make an educated guess. just because i'm asking this question again in a separate new thread does not mean i am a moron that can't understand what GD has already said. it means i have decided not to guide this purchase entirely by the opinion of one man that i don't know, which would be something that would make me a moron. one other thing, too - Gloyale stated in a post to my spfi ?'s thread "My 87 FSM shows a clutch switch and neutral switch? 88-89 do not? For Automatics, 87 uses the same neutral and p(Clutch) signals. But in 88+ additionally has In gear signal?" were these questions answered somewhere that i missed, particularly the one asking about the fact that his 87 fsm shows a neutral AND a clutch switch? if Gloyale was right and his 87 fsm shows a neutral AND clutch switch it would seem that the only documentation from an authoritative source provided so far conflicts with GD's information.

wow GD, you are an rump roast! forgive me if i am hesitant to take your word as gospel when i receive conflicting info from mutiple sources. its been my experience with mopars that those who are revered for their automotive knowledge are usually reliable but never to be taken as prophets. i'm not looking for monosyllabic information, just additional perspectives/opinions to verify that information or let me know i need to investigate the conflicting info i receive elsewhere.

i need to know about the interchangeability of spfi ea82 ecu's from late 80's to early 90's. i've been looking and have come across some black ecu's that claim to be from 88/89/90 and even newer cars, many silver ones from 91-93 and a gold one from an 88 (i don't think the ad is correct - it doesn't look like my spfi ecu). what years are interchangeable for the ea82 spfi system ecu's(specifically a 92 ea82 spfi), and which models/years are interchangeable between auto and manual cars? i'm looking at buying a black ecu from a guy that says he pulled it from a 91 car with an auto trans and he insists the same year manual car ecu's are the exact same. is this true?

i know it's not the wanted forum, but i have a post asking there too... HOW ABOUT ONE OF THEM BLACK 4WD MANUAL ECU'S FOLKS???

i went to find the wires i need to tap into from my ignition switch and i'm not sure which one to use. in the writup GD says (referring to the pink 6pin connector) to disconnect the plugs, find the constant hot on the body side, then find the pin that has continuity with the constant hot with this switch in the "on" position to tap for the ignition relay control. next, find the start signal wire by finding the pin that has continuity with the constant hot pin only with the switch in "start," and run that wire to the ECU. my question is regarding the ignition relay control wire. my connetor has two pins that have continuity with the constant hot while the switch is in "on." one also has continuity while the switch is in "start" while the other does not. i want to tap into the wire that has continuity in "on" AND "start" for my ignition relay control, correct? also, Gloyale has an ECU from an '87 2wd auto car and i need to know if i can use this with my 4wd 4speed car and '92 spfi parts. if anyone has a black ECU out of a 4wd manual car, i know a little hatchback that would be eternally grateful.

what is that gold box with the sticker and blue wires in the top right of the pic labled Fan_Box_EA81_1? i have one that came with all my spfi parts from the wrecking yard and i was just wondering. thanks

when i got the car, it ran okay with obvious issues, most notably the carb. it would barely start cold after tons of pumping and cranking, wouldn't idle correctly even warm, the poor car could barely pull it's own weight, and by comparing it's consumption to my truck's which has the nifty digital mileage display (not that i really trust it) the hatch was getting around 10miles/gal. it needed a tuneup like nobodys business, the oil was toast, and it leaked in ten places but the car passed smog like that with no repairs but a new cat - barely, but it passed. by the time i take it in again i'll have performed the spfi conversion (including rebuilding the throttle body and testing each sensor according to fsm procedures. so far they're all good with a couple to go), given it new cap/rotor/wires/plugs, installed a less restrictive conical air filter, pulled oil pan to replace gasket and de-gunk, adjusted valve lash (yes, its solid lifters. i don't know if an 84 should be but this one is), and anything else i can think of and manage to do while waiting for parts. if it doesn't pass it will be cuz the doof testing wants to give me a hard time for having spfi (in which case i'll be consulting you, s'ko, for advice) or cuz i left a 1/2" impact wrench in the #3 cylinder. it should be breathing soooo much cleaner after all these repairs/mods that it would be ridiculous for it to fail an emissions test. this is california though...

i went to the dealership after work today and ordered all my gaskets - they'll get here on wed. just for laughs i looked up how much a nos rubber plenum is (the thing that says "subaru f.i.") - $540.00!! not much of a laugh there my white paint is gone but i knew better than to touch the stop bolt. i'm not even going to dip the lower section with the throttle shaft cuz i'm not sure about the bushings/bearings/whatever they may be on the shaft. i'll just clean the housing with spray cleaner. i did dip the top half though. of course i pulled off everything that's not metal and i even backed the plugs out. what's the screw behind the iac valve that looks like a mixture screw for? is it an idle mixture for a fuel passage into the iac port? mine took 2/3 of a turn to seat it so i recorded that and backed it out too. really all i dipped was the injector cap, upper half, screws/washers, and the hardware on the end of the throttle shaft. should look perty once i get it together again. my dad (a mechanic or 30+ years) usually laughs when he sees how anal retentive i get about these types of things, the rest of the time he stands there giving me confused looks.

i'm not planning on doing anything to the EGR, good law abiding citizen that i am. and as far as porting the intake, i just wanted to clean off casting imperfections and polish it up in there. i don't think i'll be powdercoating for lack of time as much as anything else - i'm going from days to graveyard as of monday so this weekend is valuable adjusting time. my TB looks like a chocolate cake gone wrong so i'm tearing it down and dunking it in chemdip. i'll still bead blast the intake and then i guess i'll go the engine epoxy route. should be interesting finding places to hook all these vacuum lines...