ok4450

Why is the comment about packaging not true? The Kenmore brand of appliance sold at Sears is made by Whirlpool or Frigidaire with the name tag and box it came in being the main difference. What I would like to hear is a detailed explanation of this anomaly from a competent tech, car or parts manufacturer, automotive trade organization, reman facility, service bulletin, etc. from somebody, somewhere would clear things up for me. Phrases such as "the problem is gone now so what else could it be", "too much of a coincidence", etc. are a bit shallow. Regarding shaft length, which is not the cause IMHO, what kind of mechanic replaces a shaft without verifying the length against the old one before installation? I stated in a previous post the shafts can easily be inspected while on a table. This is not rocket science and I can now present an example completed as of today. The car in question is a Mitsubishi, which uses the tripod type joint on the inner and the Rzeppa joint (as does Subaru) on the outer. A left side halfshaft was ordered and when inspected right out of the box on the parts counter I discovered it was bad within 60 seconds. They reorder not one, but two shafts - just in case. So yesterday they came in and both were bad (one mildly, another near junk). Inspection took about 2 minutes on the parts counter. Reorder 2 more shafts and they arrived today. Inspection showed one was acceptable (and is in the car now) and the other was defective as noted by a very subtle grind when moving the joint by hand. One of the 2 in the previous 2 joint order was also like this. I asked the parts man if he minded if I removed the clamp and showed him the fault. No problem, and less than 60 seconds later the clamp is off, boot rolled back, and the fault is plain to see. The grooves for the balls are being ground with a coarse stone with no attempt to polish those grooves for smooth operation. My point here is that it is entirely possible to inspect a half-shaft for a fault while spending very little time on it at all. My guesstimate here on the inspection of 5 shafts, including popping a clamp and rolling back the boot, is about 5 minutes total. I believe that a technician has an obligation to the car owner to be able to explain and show why a part is faulty or the problem exists. This will be my last post here on this issue and thank you for your consideration of any points made.

I'm familiar with tight and binding joints, shaft length, and all of that. In a vehicle moving 5 MPH I could definitely see a problem occurring because of any of that, but not on an inert, stationary joint. In regards to the OEM parts, my point is that the company turning those halfshafts off the assembly line can very well be the same company producing them for the aftermarket. The only difference is the packaging. The ball joints on my Ford are made by TRW and these same joints are sold by TRW to any one of a number of distributors who package them as their own for resale. The only difference may be that the aftermarket ones may or may not have the TRW logo on them. One would think if this idle speed/halfshaft problem were related that one mechanically minded DIYer or pro tech would have figured out the cause and posted it on-line. I for one would love to hear the technical explanation behind it. I certainly understand the part about the customer not wanting to pay for this inspection but an inquisitive mechanic should be willing to spend 5 minutes of his own time in an effort to solve the puzzle. This is something I've done many times; it's not that painful to do. One would also think word of this would have drifted back to Subaru of America and a Technical Service Bulletin would have been issued alerting their dealers of potential idle problems caused by bad shafts.

To start off tonight, I will apologize again to Mr. Hewitt in regards to comments about trying to explain something technically to someone not mechanically inclined. Mr. Hewitt, I assure you there was not meant to be any subtle criticism or dig behind those remarks but I apologize for wording it poorly. A couple of quick comments here. One is in regards to OEM Subaru half-shafts and the so-called "aftermarket" shafts. Reman shafts are generally OEM Subaru shafts. The remans are simply rebuilt OEM ones. A couple of years ago I sold about 40-50 Subaru OEM shafts, along with a comparable number of OEM Subaru alternators/starters, to a reman facility as cores to get them out of my hair. These all wound up in your local parts houses and you may consider these "aftermarket". Just an FYI here. Subaru does not manufacture their own half-shafts so technically an OEM shaft would be considered an "aftermarket". Subaru also does this with many other items on their cars; suspension parts, clutches, etc. Every other car maker does the same thing. An example might be TRW. TRW furnishes ball joints, tie rods, seat belts, air bags, brakes, etc. for many car makers; Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, GM, etc, etc. along with many parts house operations. The only difference is the packaging. I don't remember what or how much TRW supplies Subaru but you get the picture. The last comment about half-shafts. Half-shafts, mechanically speaking, are what I would consider grade school level mechanical repairs. Easy to install, easy to disassemble, and even easier to inspect both visually and by feel while the shaft is on the bench. As I stated, I don't buy into this for one minute, but for the sake of argument here let's assume this vibration problem was caused by a half-shaft problem. This means that any half decent technician should be able to take that defective shaft while on the bench and find the problem within 2-3 minutes. If the shaft has a problem that causes a vibration then it should be very apparent with a quick physical while it's on the table. Granted, there are some areas (especially electrics/electronics) where things are not always black and white but a half-shaft fault should be easy to discover if one exists. JMHO, but a mechanic has a responsibility to the car owner to be able to explain WHY the problem occurred and show them if at all possible.

First off, I am going to apologize here for something. I should not have used the words delusional and moron. It was done in moments of frustration, but in retrospect frustration is to be expected when you're trying to put a mechanical explanation across to someone who is not mechanically minded. I've only gone through the same thing with my wife a hundred times when trying to explain something vehicle related to her. If anyone follows my posts on CT they would know that I don't normally resort to this kind of thing, so I offer a sincere apology right now. As to comments about my expertise, or even the profile "egotism" that is mentioned, that is not true. If any of you knew me personally you would see that that does not apply to me in the least. I AM confident in my mechanic abilities (about 35 years plus) and if the ego part is related to the "multi-faceted" part on my profile that is not meant as an ego trip, period. I do have the ability do many other things outside of the auto world in spare time including repair of home A/C units, repair and installation of garage doors/operators (from small residential to 100 foot long commercial), etc, etc. I can even machine my own brake rotors and crankshaft hubs from bare metal blocks if I choose to. The fact I stated on my profile page a few of my outside activities, if you want to call them that, is not an indication of egotism. It's simply to give whomever might read that page a general guideline about the guy behind it. Personally, I'm surprised that anyone ever reads any of them. In spite of the bashing I've gotten from Mr. Hewitt, and others, I'm not upset with him at all. JMHO, but I think he's being yanked a little bit by his mechanic. Tampering with a screw that should not be tampered with, by his own admission the mechanic "was confused", and the playing around with the throttle plate screw looks bad to me. I could go into a number of paragraphs explaining to Mr. Hewitt why he could be getting yanked but he is convinced the axle was the problem so why bother. Professional mechanics should know exactly what I'm talking about here. The problem was there, it's gone now, so ergo it has to have been the axle. Maybe, maybe not IMHO. A couple of closing points here. It has been mentioned about axle length, the strain of the engine pulling on the axle, etc. and I think a point is being seriously missed here. The outer joint is fixed; there is no linear movement in it. However, on the inner DOJ the entire inner race/balls slide back and forth in the ball grooves much like bowling balls rolling in the gutters. There is more than enough movement here to offset any of this perceived strain. A higher than normal idle will cause some strain but this falls back onto the idle adjustment situation again. The last point is that on the way home yesterday I stopped by a transmisssion shop a friend of mine owns. He has about 40 years in on transmissions, half-shafts, etc., is an "expert's expert" to put it one way, and when I posed this question to him he also thought the problem was elsewhere. So, again I apologize for getting out of line with the name calling. I will not retract any remarks about the cause and effect of the mechanical problem involved here because I've been involved with too many Subaru half-shaft rebuilds, replacements, and differential repairs to buy into it.

Not to be accused of hiding out is why. Still, what I am looking for is a technical explanation from some of the Subaru pros here about why a non-rotating, stationary mass will cause a vibration.

I would also be interested in hearing from Mr. Hewitt about why he thinks my Car Talk profile is egotistical. That comment makes no sense to me at all.

Well, this is OK4450 and no, I have not been a member of this board until tonight. CarTalk is the only forum I deal with and for one reason only: I honestly enjoy trying to help someone with car problems. It's the same reason I always carry a box of tools and supplies in my car. More than once I have stopped on the roadside and repaired a car for someone free of charge, even when the car owner was insisting on paying me. Read the entire thread on CarTalk and note that I was polite with Mr. Hewitt up to a point. He stated that the advice he was being given here was from people who own shops, are Subaru pros, etc. My comment then was that anyone who believes a vibration problem is caused by a non-rotating mass is delusional. So, how many here are shop owners and Subaru mechanics? I will maintain to you that an auto transmission in DRIVE, sitting stationary at a traffic light will not vibrate due to a half-shaft. It may vibrate for any one of a hundred reasons but the axle shaft is not one of them. From the wheel lugs clean through the entire differential, NOTHING is moving when the vehicle is at an idle. The one Mr. Hewitt should be upset with is his mechanic who has been altering things he should not alter. Maybe Mr. Hewitt should email the EPA tonight and mention his mechanic's name to them and see what they have to say about that little alteration. As to my qualifications I don't care if you believe them or not. The certificates say otherwise. As I stated, Car Talk is about the only forum I frequent and for the reason I mentioned. Yes, sometimes people do get upset with me but it's generally not because I rip into them and name call. Usually it's because I can be brutally honest and since they don't like the message, choose to shoot the messenger. To close this particular post, and seeing as how I have not seen any technical analysis of this problem from anyone other than ripping into me, I would ask again what your Subaru qualifications? Mr. Hewitt stated that many or most of you are shop owners, Subaru techs, etc. I also remember daehttub2000's ID but I don't remember your complaint. Give me a few search terms and let's research the problem you had. Believe it or not, respectfully yours. OK4450