The Dude

Ok, South Carolina isn't exactly the South Pole. But we do need our car heaters in the winter. I have never driven a car that reaches operating temperature as rapidly as the Subaru Forester. It's uncanny. Even with ambient temps in the high twenties, the temp guage is showing fully heated and heat is pouring out of the heater after only one mile of operation. Is this normal? Why does the Subaru heat up so quickly?

I have driven a lot of cars, and Subaru is the only one I have driven with the "mystery" temp gauge. You know, as soon as the car reaches operating temperature, the needle just stays there in the middle of the gauge. No mater how heavy the load, or how high the ambient temperature, there is absolutely no movement in the gauge needle. Why? What benefit does the driver get from NOT being able to see the heat loading of his engine? What would we see if a Subaru had a "normal" analogue temp gauge? Maybe wild and extreme swings in engine temperature, with even higher transient heat spikes. So, why does Subaru have that strange "three stage", no in between coolant temp gauge?

I'm not an attorney, but I don't think that you're "on your own" even if you're past the warranty period. The rebuilder had a duty to provide you with a servicable engine, according to you, he NEVER did that. There seems to be very little negative on the web concerning Enginesus. Maybe "Bob" will make it right. You never know. I was never able to find an address for Enginesus. Their location on Ebay is listed as "USA", which takes in quite a bit of real estate. Their website appears to provide only a toll-free number and an e-mail address. So, out of curiosity, where are these guys located? I prefer to purchase high ticket or high risk items from sellers in my own state. It is much, much easier to bring the seller before a judge if things go sour. CCR, Inc would be one notable exception.

I'm on my second Forester, I sold the first one, a 1999, after 200,000 almost repair free miles. I'll be among the first to opine that the 2.5L DOHC was close to being a piece of junk. Although even the DOHC seems to hang together pretty well AFTER the headgaskets have been properly replaced. It's still early days, but I think the 2003 and newer 2.5L SOHC engines have been pretty reliable. Not perfect, but I would image the newer 2.5L SOHC engine is in the same reliablity ball park with Honda and Toyota. I have seen very few negative post about the H6 on this board. It's very cramped in a H6 engine compartment so routine maintenance can be more expensive than on a H4. One other thing, it can very expensive to replace a timing chain on any car when it's finally needed. Just out of curiosity, ask the dealer how much a timing chain replacement would run. I briefly looked at a Matrix, and was blown away by the timing chain replacement cost. It's just my opinion, but I would not avoid the newer H4 engine. I bought a 2006 Forester, so I think I have put my money where my mouth is.

THe 1999 Legacy Outback has the DOHC 2.5L engine. There is no question about it. The 1999 Forester had the SOHC 2.5L engine, because it was made in Japan. The American made Legacy did not get the SOHC egine until the next model year (2000).

Is 7,500 miles an excessivley short tire rotation spec? Probably. However, I would stick to the schedule as as long as the drivetrain is still under warranty (60,000 miles). The AT, and especially the multi-pack clutch are potential weak spots on the Subaru. For that reason the tire rotation and tire matching specs are very tough. BTW, I followed the 7,500 mile rotation while my 1999 Forester was under warranty. After that, is was a tire rotation every other 5,000 mile oil change. I sold the car at 200,000 miles without experiencing any AT problems. If you pay attention to your tires, including keeping them up to pressure, 10,000 miles probably isn't much of a stretch.

Other may have a different opinion, but I would say fix it ASAP. All aluminum engines tend to take repeated overheatings very badly. You don't need warped or cracked heads in addition to the blown head gaskets.

I respect your opinion, but if someone should expect to replace the head gaskets on a Subaru at 120,000 miles THEN IT SHOULD BE LISTED IN THE SUBARU MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE. That's right, Mr.& Mrs. John Q. Public deserve some kind of heads up that the car they are buying is going to require a $1,200-$1,500 repair job at 120,000 miles. Then they can make an INFORMED DECISION and probably buy a Toyota instead. Replacing the head gaskets is NOT scheduled maintenance for a normally aspirated engine. The head gaskets should last the life of the engine. Other manufacturers can make head gaskets last over 200,000 miles, why can't Subaru? Subaru has had a decade to perfect the 2.5L engine. Have they? I'm not so sure. I'm a Subaru fan, but I'm not a Subaru apologist, there's a big difference. When Subaru scews up, I'm calling them on it. And if I get burned by my 2006 Forester, I'm buying something else next go round. It's just that simple.

Why I am I not surprized?

Years ago, my brother took his brand new AMC car to the dealer for service. That night a tornado picked the AC unit off the dealership's roof and dropped it on his car. The car was totalled. Personally, I think the twister did him a favor.

See if Subaru of America will at least participate in the repair costs. If they won't, here's a plan: 1. Add radiator stop leak to your cooling system. 2. Wash away all evidence of coolant leakage. 3. Then TRADE that sucker at the Subaru dealer of your choice for a H6 Legacy. The person who buys your leaker will get some type of warranty from the dealership. So, if it leaks the buyer won't be paying for the repair. Screwing Subaru, the company that perpetrated this abomination on it's customers would be the first choice. That's not possible, so sticking it to an authorized Subaru dealer is the best you can do.

Good point. The 2.5L is basically a bored out 2.2L block. Some would say OVERBORED. There is precious little metal left in the 2.5L engine. For the 2.5L to not blow a head gasket everything has to be done exactly right. There is vitually no margin for error. A Subaru is not a good car for someone who checks the engine by looking through the ignition keyhole. Subarus are hands-on cars. Either do it youself, or pay someone else, but maintenance can not be ignored with a Subaru. Subaru, reliable if maintained, damned expensive if not.

.... Upon questioning, Bryce informed me that he had never worked on a Subaru AWD transmission and that he would like the opportunity to learn. Maybe that statement from Bryce was sign from heaven that you should've gotten back in your car and driven off like a bat out of hell. Why even ask the question if you're going to let some inexperienced wannabe Suby tech "learn" on your car? Your situation is a big stinky ankle-high pile of doggy poop, but you kinda stepped in it. That aside, IF they installed used parts and represented them as new, that may very well be fraud. That could give you an egde. This thing has a very, very bad feel. You probably need an attorney. Never authorize work without a WRITTEN estimate. Always check out a shop thorougly BEFORE taking your car there for service. Is there a BBB in Canada? How did this business check out with the BBB? I feel for you, but you need to take a much more proactive approach when dealing with repair shops. BTW, are you being charged for "storage fees". It might pay to find out.

I assume that you are referring to the Phase I DOHC 2.5L engine only. The Phase II 2.5L SOHC, although not perfect, has proven to be a reliable engine. Given the feedback on this board, it seems that even the infamous Phase I 2.5L is reasonably reliable once the blown headgaskets have been properly replaced. It does not pay to cook these engines. Aluminum expands MUCH more than cast iron when heated.

Subaru provided an extended warranty on your model year engine specifically for external head gasket leaks. Coverage was extended to 100,000 miles. EVEN if you're over 100,000 miles, I would suggest contacting SOA. It is very possible that SOA might pick up a portion of the repair costs. It costs nothing to try.

Nipper, it may be that you know more about cars than you do about women. What takes less effort, convincing an unwilling wife to look at gauges, or installing an audible alarm? Installing an adible alarm, a couple of hours. Not having your better half blow up the boxer, priceless.

I think you have a valid point. Subaru has a "staged" coolant temperature gauge. That's why the temp gauge needle doesn't move even when accelerating up a long, steep hill. Of course, an oil temp gauge is superior to a coolant temp gauge for heading off engine overheating.

If I am not mistaken, the rear 12V outlet in my Forester stays "on" even when the ignition is off. So, placing the solar charger on the dashboard and running the wire to the rear 12V outlet may work. BTW, allowing a battery to completely discharge greatly reduces it's useful life.

Don't repeatedly overheat your engine. If it's the head gaskets, and it probably is, fix them. Only thing you're doing is moving from an expensive repair to a really, really expensive repair. Warped heads or a seized engine aren't going to help the situation. Given a choice between driving a car in for repair and having a car towed in for repair, I 'll go with driving everytime.

No matter who changes the oil, check the level yourself after the service has been performed. I change the oil myself because I can do it right, and I can do it less than 1/4 of the amount of time it would take to drive the dealership and kill at least a half hour in the waiting room. Oh yeah, always check the oil level again, the morning after the oil change. You can't stop all the idiots in the world, but you can slow them down.

I went through a similar same set of problems with a rebuilt engine. CCR engines aside, rebuilt engines often seem to create more problems and expense than they solve. The only thing that saved me was that I bought the replacement engine through the installer. That way the installer had total legal responsiblity for the entire job. Otherwise the rebuilder would have said "we sent you a good engine, that crummy installer screwed it up". And the installer would have said, "I did a great install job, it's that piece of crap engine from the rebuilder". The installer and rebuilder would have bounced me back and forth like a ping-pong ball. THEY DEFINITELY HOPE THAT YOU GET DISCOURAGED AND JUST GO AWAY. I had to sue the installer in small claims court. I won, but it was not an experience I would want to go through go through again. It's my opinion that there are fair amount of morally challanged people in the rebuild business. Watch yourself.

Are you talking about WOT after gradually attaining speed? Or are you talking about a "jack rabbit" start from a traffic light? Because, without question, excessively hard acceleration from a stop is very, very hard on a car. The engine, drive train, and suspension will probably have greatly shortened life spans.

Thank you for your information on European towing regulations. Here, in the US, Subaru of America recommends an unbraked towing limit of 1000lbs (454 kg). In most of our fifty states, motorists would be free to exceed that recommendation if they wished to. Many states require that the towed vehicle have it's own brakes if the towed weight exceeds 3,000 lbs (1,363 kg). When I purchased a heavier trailer for my sailboat, I bought one with brakes. I still believe the much lower US towing limit is based on lawsuit liability alone. If a US Subaru driver has an accident when towing over 2200 lbs, SOA can say the driver had exceeded the published towing limit for the vehicle. That would eliminate, or at least greatly reduce, any exposure SOA might have in a lawsuit resulting from the accident. European gasoline (petrol) prices are very high. Naturally, Europeans want the highest possible towing limits from the most fuel effecient car. Subaru is not a particularly fuel effecient car. But Subaru has a much higher towing limit than other cars in Europe with similar MPG. This allows Subaru to occupy a niche in the very crowded, and fiercely competitive, European car market. Anyone fancy a Skoda?

US engines have a higher output. If anything, UK spec Subarus would have a higher final gear ratio for higher MPG. That would mean less towing capacity, not more. Tires could easy be ugraded by Subaru Of America in a "towing" package. No, it doesn't wash. It's more likely a marketing decision or a liablity concern than a real hardware difference. My Forester tows my 2,000 sailboat like a feather, the car has way more actual towing capacity.

If you have, or can borrow, the tools, why not do it yourself? This is the perfect opportunity to learn how to replace head gaskets. The engine already is an economic write off otherwise. You have nothing to loose. This is not brain surgery. Go for it.