mountainwalker

It was the dealer saying that. I asked him if SOA recommends that, and he said yes, but of course, he could have pulled this out of thin air. I'm going to ask SOA directly. Fuel additives are one of those things that some people I know swear by, and others feel are useless.

Subaru recommends Fuel Injector Cleaner every 3K miles for optimum performance and fuel efficiency. The dealer sells the Subaru cleaner for $7.64. Do you use Fuel Injector Cleaner regularly, and if so, how often and which kind? If you fill up with Chevron Techron once in a while, is it still necessary?

Are you sure the belt should be replaced if it still looks good? And the tensioner and Idler? What kind of a noise was your car making? Here are the dealer costs of the parts you recommend and their Subaru numbers: Drive Belt - $39.95 - 809221100 Belt Tensioner - $106 - 23769AA003 Idler (there are 2 on the 3.0L H6, so this is the price for each): $46 - 23770AA020 By the way, Subaru parts guys said the OEM Crankshaft Pulley (Harmonic Balancer) is purposely made to be a bit heavier so as to dampen vibration, which he says is a problem on the lighter pulleys used in racing.

That's what's so frustrating about a problem that isn't consistent. If it were consistently causing a problem, it's much easier to diagnose. Our mechanic couldn't duplicate the issue, and even for us, after it happened several times, it didn't happen again (though we've been sticking to our usual refilling before the tank is below 1/4 full these days - it was unusual for us to let the tank get down low close to empty twice in two weeks). Anyone have a guess as to what would cause this a few times over 2 weeks after letting the gas tank get down close to empty twice, and cause this both when the tank was near empty but not quite empty, and again when the tank was full, and then not cause this for 6 weeks? And could this possibly have any connection to the Crankshaft Pulley coming apart now? Don't think so, just checking. What systems would you check now if any? Like to nip any issues before they become major problems, and before they hit you when it's least convenient.

Anyone know where to find a 1-piece Crankshaft Pulley for the 3.0L H6? Currently the OEM ones are 2-piece, and the one on our 2003 VDC 3.0L H6 Outback just split right down the middle. 1 Lucky Texan noted that there are 1-piece aftermarket ones made for the Impreza, and found one for the 3.3, but not yet for the 3.0 or 3.6.

That would be worth finding out, but may be a little late for me this time (and hope this one lasts a long time). Where would you begin to look for one?

Makes me wonder - is it possible to make a one-piece pulley with a mold or eventually with a 3D printer, and if so, why not make it that way? Also, if this is common, why did so few dealerships within hundreds of miles, plus our garage's Subaru parts supplier, not have it in stock?

Crazy, yes. It seems to be uncommon, but I did see threads about it referencing the pulley delaminating. Perhaps like with most manufactured goods there is some percentage of bad ones in a batch, and we just got the lucky one LOL (it's better to laugh out loud than to cry). Or is it possible it was installed in such a way, or that a belt was fixed in such a way, so as to cause the failure? BTW, though we maintain the car so well, always doing proper maintenance on time, and don't drive on rough roads, we've suffered two random repairs in the last 12-18 months totaling $800 that have nothing to do with maintenance - a CV boot which blew open after a piece of road debris sliced it open, and this Crankshaft Pulley coming apart.

So the problem went away on its own - no issue for the last 6 weeks. At least nothing other than removing the fuel pump to inspect it and putting it back. The progression was: Several times the car didn't start on the first turn of the key when the gas was very low close to empty. One pump of the gas pedal and it started. After pulling out the pump to inspect it, nothing was found wrong. Then right after filling up a full tank of gas, it wouldn't start right at the gas station on the first try as well, until after a single pump of the gas pedal. Then the problem disappeared, though I've been staying at my usual above 1/4 tank full and haven't been testing things by running very low. What I can't explain is why: A) Pumping the gas pedal once was all that was needed to start the car after it wouldn't start up on the first try. Why the issue went away. I should mention that the Crank Shaft Pulley (Harmonic Balancer) just came apart on me yesterday, and I've just ordered a replacement, though don't see how it's connected to this. Two thoughts: 1) My indie mechanic suggested that perhaps the fuel we Californians are limited to by state law may mean a higher chance of impurities getting into your fuel pump, and that whatever was in there, had a chance to get out after running on a new tank of fuel. 2) Because I had driven the car twice within the space of a very busy two weeks close down to empty, that perhaps some debris got into the filter, which when it was removed to look at it, or when it had a chance to run more, got out. I typically always fill up before 1/4 tank - that's generally a good habit to keep considering most modern fuel pumps are cooled by the gas they are sitting in, and that gunk floating at the top has more of a chance to get in when you're running on low gas.

What I can't explain is why: A) Pumping the gas pedal once was all that was needed to start the car after it wouldn't start up on the first try. Why the issue went away. The progression was: Several times the car didn't start on the first turn of the key when the gas was very low close to empty. One pump of the gas pedal and it started. After pulling out the pump to inspect it, nothing was found wrong. Then right after filling up a full tank of gas, it wouldn't start right at the gas station on the first try as well, until after a single pump of the gas pedal. Then the problem disappeared, though I've been staying at my usual above 1/4 tank full and haven't been testing things by running very low. Two thoughts: 1) My indie mechanic suggested that perhaps the fuel we Californians are limited to by state law may mean a higher chance of impurities getting into your fuel pump, and that whatever was in there, had a chance to get out after running on a new tank of fuel. 2) Because I had driven the car twice within the space of a very busy two weeks close down to empty, that perhaps some debris got into the filter, which when it was removed to look at it, or when it had a chance to run more, got out. I typically always fill up before 1/4 tank - that's generally a good habit to keep considering most modern fuel pumps are cooled by the gas they are sitting in, and that gunk floating at the top has more of a chance to get in when you're running on low gas.

I thought it was the alternator seizing up as well. Got a call from our indie mechanic, turns out it was the Crankshaft Pulley (Harmonic Balancer) coming apart, splitting right down the middle. Think I saw a thread about crankshaft pulleys delaminating. This can't occur too commonly as none of the Subaru dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area within 1.5 hours had the part in stock, and I was only able to locate one at a dealer 2 hours drive away - having it shipped in UPS to hopefully arrive by tomorrow noon. The closest one my mechanic found through his big Subaru parts supplier was in Portland, OR. The hit: $229 for the part, $10 shipping and 1 hour of labor at the garage.

2003 Subaru Outback VDC, 3L H6 about 110,00 miles Car is currently drivable and oddly not showing any dash warning lights and power steering is now working, though all this below happened hours ago so bringing into garage ASAP. 1. Car stalled for a moment when dropping someone off at the curb around 4PM. Started right back up. Parked the car. 2. After getting back to the parked car about 30 minutes later, I noticed a decent amount of water/fluid under the car, but thought this could have come from the A/C. 3. On the short 5 mile or so drive home on local 25-35 mph roads, not highway, I was making a right turn at low speed and felt the car stall and lost power steering. Car started right back up, but I suddenly noticed that two red warning lights were showing on the dash: BRAKE and BATTERY SYMBOL. I also smelled a slight burning smell. Power steering was still gone. I was a short distance from home and there was no check engine light, so kept driving. 4. I stopped on a side street and noticed that when I pressed the brake, I could hear a clicking sound coming from the base of the gear shift lever. I could still smell the slight burning smell. I was only a few blocks from home so kept driving. 5. Kept driving the last few blocks home, and suddenly the BRAKE and BATTERY SYMBOL went OFF (stopped showing), so now no warning lights were showing, the clicking sound from the base of the gear shifter when depressing the brake was now gone, and I now could hear a little screeching sound and a rattling sound when driving, though nothing was hanging off the bottom of the car. Made it home and called AAA for a tow. Never had multiple warning lights come on before. 6. When tow truck showed, car started up and drove with no issues and no warning lights, and the power steering oddly was working again, though I wouldn't take a chance on driving it in with so many indications of a problem. Last time I brought the car in was about a month ago, because it wouldn’t start several times when the gas tank was low, and then once when it was even full. Reported the problem on this forum. Good indie mechanic couldn’t replicate the issue and said the fuel pump wasn’t clogged and that there was no evidence of the common failed gasket issue on the fuel pump and suggested waiting until the problem reappeared. Then the problem just disappeared altogether and the car was fine this last month. Battery was replaced only about 1.5-2 years ago, so I'd be surprised if the battery was at fault. Any ideas on possible causes? Never had 2 dash warning lights come on at the same time before, and never had this many systems fail only to work again two hours later.

Thinking it could be a leaky injector. Also will have them look at fuel filter. I have depressed the pedal 2-3 times after not starting the first time - it has started for me on the 3rd or 4th try after pumping the pedal 2-3 times. Someone suggested that starting on throttle full open is a good way to test flooding - if it starts on full throttle, indicates flooding.

1 Lucky Texan, thinking you might be right about a leaky injector. OK, so brought it in to our good indie garage, asked them to check for fuel filter cap and 0-ring deformation - none found. Only error code thrown was P0183 code (Fuel Temp Sensor A, High Input Circuit). No Check Engine Light, just the error code. Mechanic couldn't replicate the no-start problem I was having. After leaving, I filled up a full tank of gas. Everything was fine until two days later. Went to start car in the afternoon after not driving it all day - no start - and this time it wouldn't start 3x until it started on the 4th try. I drove some blocks and then parked to see what would happen - car wouldn't start on first and second try again. I'm thinking maybe a leaky injector that's flooding the cylinder? Any suggestions? Found info related to the P0183 Error Code here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=77153 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7578&highlight=P0183 I had copied and pasted summary notes from what I found in these threads: Code: P0183 Engine Fuel Temperature Sensor A Circuit High Input Description: The comprehensive component monitor (CCM) monitors the EFT sensor circuit to the PCM for high voltage. If voltage were to exceed a calibrated limit and a calibrated amount of time during testing, the test will fail. Possible Causes: *Open or Short to power in harness* *Damaged EFT Sensor* *Improper harnes connection* *Damaged PCM* Diagnostic Aides Verify EFT-PID value to determine open or short -It uses fuel temp to know when to run the integrity test. It basically makes sure you have no leaks in the fuel system, which would allow raw fuel in the atmosphere. In an endwrench article for enhanced evap soobs it says: To test the integrity of the [fuel] system, the system shuts off all access of the tank to the outside atmosphere. [then a bunch of other steps]. The testing of this system is only conducted once per drive cycle and only under very specific conditions: • The fuel tank must contain less than 9.6 gallons of fuel. • The fuel temperature must be less than 113°F. • Engine speed must be over 1500 RPM. • Vehicle speed over 28 MPH. • Throttle position must be mid-range. • Intake manifold vacuum must be equivalent to cruising vacuum. • 455 seconds must have elapsed since engine start. -the ECU uses the fuel temp sensor input to know when it can do the evap fuel system integrity test. -Typically when the CEL illuminates with a fuel temp sensor code, either the fuel filter is partially plugged, the pump is defective, or the sensor is bad. The fuel continuously circulates from the tank to the injection unit and back to the tank again whenever the pump is running. Any restriction (plugged fuel filter or pinched line) will cause the fuel to heat up and trigger a code. BTW: in tank pumps are good because they are submerged in fuel which acts as a heat sink to keep the pump cool. Running the car on empty a lot can lead to premature failures of the fuel pump. Ideally you should always refill BEFORE the low fuel light comes on. Also in winter you should keep the tank above 1/2 full all the time as doing so will reduce moisture buildup in the tank which will reduce the chance of a frozen fuel line, and reduces corrosion in the tank. It also means that you will have "extra" fuel in an emergency. In addition, apparently having the wrong ECU for your model Subaru can also throw the P0183 code. Doubtful in my case as I'm sure I have the OEM ECU.

The whooshing we sometimes (not always) hear when removing the gas cap is a vacuum inside the tank - meaning air rushes inside the tank, not out. Usually hear that after driving for a while at highway speed and then stopping to fill up. Remember what I've reported about the failed start has only happened twice ever and in the last few weeks, and only after parking the car overnight when the car was at or right near empty the day before. Two presses of the pedal, and it started. No smell of fuel. Have heard people say you shouldn't let the gas get down too low for fear of gunk floating in the tank clogging things up, but isn't that what a filter is for? We only fill premium/super gas per Subaru instructions for our car.

Not at all worried about buying the fuel filter or cap - as you said can always return or sell to another member who needs them - just with finding and buying the right size o-rings to go along with it.

1 Lucky Texan, will the 2004 Outback fuel filter and cap fit our 2003 VDC 3L H6? Interesting to note that our 2003 VDC model came loaded with features that were standard on the 2004 models, and the car came with a 2004 manual.

Thanks 1 Lucky Texan for the fuel filter and cap link - but where to get the o-rings, and which sizes to order? I'd like to have these on hand before going to our independent garage so that if this is the fix, we're not jumping right to a brand new full fuel pump assembly at a cost of almost $400. I do think it's a good idea to check error codes on the computer.

grossgary, if it was the throttle position sensors, why would I be able to start after 2 pumps of the gas pedal? Don't know if related, but a few years back we had an issue with the throttle dying when coming down off of speed, say coming off a highway, and then stopping at a red light. The idle speed would fall low enough that it would just stall. Started right back up. Only happened about 3 times, and then we had a major servicing, and then it never happened again.

Grossgary, would it possible to order caps and O-rings with you for our 2003 VDC Outback 3.0L H6? I wouldn't even know where to begin finding these LOL. The better of the two local dealerships here quoted around $775-785 for the fuel pump assembly + labor. And the best part was that the service guy said whenever they encountered any issues like this, even when they can't replicate them in their garage or see the problem, they just automatically replace the full fuel pump assembly. By the way, he said that this type of problem would not throw a Check Engine light.

Where can you order the parts from? I'd love to get all the info organized before taking the car to our great indie garage.

Asked the better of the two local dealerships if they're familiar with this problem - they said they just replaced the entire fuel assembly at a cost of about $785 in parts and labor. Ouch. Our indie garage is great and always much more reasonable, but if they can't source the parts they'd still have to get a whole assembly. Does anyone have a good source for the cap and o-ring parts aside from junk yards (and if the original Subaru parts are designed or made badly to begin with won't they just fail again)?

Thanks, similar problem written about at Subaru Outback Forums: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/110-gen-2-2000-2004/45780-gen-2-h6-fuel-pump-o-ring-failure-ethanol.html

I'm very interested in this thread - experiencing some issues I posted that could be related to this problem. How'd it turn out?

This is for our 2003 Outback VDC 3L H6 which is in very good condition. Never happened before, but happened twice in the last few weeks. We usually fill up way before the gas tank empties, usually at ½ or 1/3 tank, but sometimes get close to empty. When we have gotten close to the empty line or light and parked the car for the night, we’ve never had a problem starting the car on the first try the next day. Recently twice when we let the gas go very close to the empty line or light, parked it and returned to start it the next day, the car didn’t start right away. It clearly wasn’t an electrical problem so I pumped the gas pedal twice and the car started fine. After driving the car for 15 minutes still without filling and parking, returned 45 minutes later and car started fine. What could be the cause of the car not starting right away when parked for the night when close to empty? Dirty injectors? We do fill up from time to time on Chevron Techron before a longer drive to keep the fuel system clean (supposed to be same as using a fuel system cleaner).