mountainwalker

This is interesting. What exactly do the WRX tires provide in terms of performance advantage? The odd thing is that one person in this forum or another Subaru forum on Edmunds said they were for speed not snow. You are saying they are for snow. Exactly what do they do? What are they better/worse for snow? They do happen to come with snow tires on them, so I'm assuming you are right that they are better in snow. Just don't know why. Sorry for my ignorance, I'm new to Subaru, owning a car after not owning for some years, and never heard fo WRX rims before a week or two ago.

Just picked up a 2003 VDC edition in excellent condition with two sets of rims, including a set of WRX rims. Will the WRX rims make a difference? Will be using this subie mostly for work highway/around town during week, and every few weeks a 2-4 hour road trip. Not racing. Will be driving on good California highways and roads in mostly very good weather. Also, in very good-excellent condition, what are the WRX rims worth? In very good-excellent condition, what are the regular rims worth?

Thanks to all for the great advice and encouragement. We picked up a 2003 VDC in excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition maintained well with a whole bunch of nice extras, including a gold warranty for many more miles, Thule roof box, WRX rims, extra rims, extra snow tires, etc. I'll post some pictures after we pick it up. I can't thank all of you enough. Now I have to figure out whether we really need the WRX rims - not sure how much of a difference they make for our driving.

Thanks Suzam, that's what I thought, just checking. From the look of things, barring any extraordinary incidents before then, I'd be looking at just those things.

What would be a typical garage cost for a 90K Outback 2003 H6 maintenance if the car is in very good shape?

I noticed after checking on a few similar vehicles in the crossover and compact-mid SUV category, including other Japanese makes, that the Subaru Outback, especially the 6 cylinder, seems to hold its value very well for the same number of years. Why is that? I used 2003 as a benchmark.

1) Is there really no difference between an 01 and an 03 H6 VDC with the same miles, if both of them were maintained well consistently? 2) One seller says that the original CD player/stereo was skipping and was removed and replaced last year during a major tune up with a new one that doesn't skip (seller still has the original if I can repair it). Does this still preserve the benefits of the McIntosh sound system? I'm assuming the McIntosh was about the speakers more than anything else. 3) How much value do Brembo rotors, specifically sized for the model of Subaru Outback add? I know they are far superior to smaller weaker OEM rotors that came with some of the earlier Subaru Outbacks (and which led to vibration and rotor warping especially when carrying heavier loads). 4) If one of the 2 cars (the 03) was driven in Western mountain snow country for 3-4 winters (not visiting but there full time), could that have made it more prone to corrosion? I think out West salt is not used like it is in the Northeast.

1) Is there really no difference between an 01 and an 03 H6 VDC with the same miles, if both of them were maintained well consistently? 2) How much value does a tow hitch that's never been used add? 3) One seller says that the original CD player/stereo was skipping and was removed and replaced last year during a major tune up with a new one that doesn't skip (seller still has the original if I can repair it). Does this still preserve the benefits of the McIntosh sound system? I'm assuming the McIntosh was about the speakers more than anything else. 4) How much value do Brembo rotors, specifically sized for the model of Subaru Outback add? I know they are far superior to smaller weaker OEM rotors that came with some of the earlier Subaru Outbacks (and which led to vibration and rotor warping especially when carrying heavier loads).

Is that all? No initiation? No trial by fire? I don't have to paint the Subaru symbol on my chest and drive down the street while sticking out of the moon roof?

The main difference is that H) is 2 years newer - all things being equal, and records checking out for each, before inspection, at which price would you go for H) ? Before inspection, at which price would you go for ? I say before inspection because inspection could reveal needed repairs/damage.

Just last week I posted a thread on this which got a lot of replies: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88525

I found 2 similar H6 Outback Wagons to evaluate against that meet the criteria of good service records and single owner or 2 owner with second owner purchasing the car after one year and maintaining it well ever since. All 3 cars coincidently have about the same mileage. Below here’s again, and I’ve added H) which is a 2003 Outback VDC H6 with 83,600 miles, and for comparison I), a non-VDC Outback H6 with 84,500 miles. H) is a 2003 VDC with the same miles as the 2001. Which do you prefer? Do you have any concerns about H) being driven in a West Coast winter snow area for the last 3 years? 2001 Outback VDC H6, Miles 82,740, Asking $12,000, Individual seller. KBB Fair $10,775, Good $11,835, Excellent $12,725. Cosmetic condition looks good. Seller claims that car was always dealer serviced and says he has all maintenance and repair records. Seller purchased car from first owner who owned it for a year and sold after moving cross country – current owner has owned it ever since. Tires are near new Michelin MXV4's. H) 2003 Outback VDC, Miles 83, 600. Asking $13,600. Individual seller. KBB Fair $12,400, Good $13,745 and Excellent $14,705. Cosmetic condition looks good. Seller purchased car from first owner who owned it for one year before moving. Car spent first year in dry climate of San Diego, and since then in a West Coast mountain area that gets winter snow. Comes with WRX wheels and studded snow tires (which we don’t need). Seller claims they had a major tune up done at the dealer (and replaced the stereo at that time which is a slight bummer if it was the McIntosh stereo), and says the car is still under warranty. Will know more details soon. I) 2003 Subaru Outback H6 Wagon. Miles 85,000. KBB Fair $9,340, Good $10,430, Excellent $11,300. Cosmetic condition looks good. Seller has always owned car and claims careful maintenance. Vehicle has new Michelin tires. Does NOT have VDC and options that come with it. Have already lined up good independent garages near these that can inspect any one I'd like to send in.

I would have to agree with you. Sound advice, especially when I remember how meticulously I maintained my Volvo and how carefully my father maintained our cars, and how much longer they lasted than cars belonging to the vast majority of neighbors and friends. Lesson learned. I have a cousin who is a former EE who built a very successful Detroit-based company which refurbs and distributes parts for high-end foreign cars, and is a lifelong car nut, and this also is his most important piece of advice for buying a used car.

The dealer cars as expected have NO history whatsoever. And their answers were very unsatisfactory (what I expected). So for B&C above, would you send both of those cars to inspections with good reputable garages? Would you definitely pass on C because it doesn't have full history, even if it checked out very well in inspection? Note C is priced about the same as B, while B has more than 20,000 extra miles. BTW, I checked with dealers in Arizona - no one will sell you 2008 Subaru Outback 6 cylinder models for even close to 19K cash. Best price offered so far was $28,000 for cash. Not saying you couldn't knock the dealer down a little more, but it's not looking like you could walk away with a $19,000 new H6 car either. Where exactly did you hear this? Don't get me wrong, this is not about disbelieving you - I want to believe you, because I'd like to find the dealer who would do this.

Thanks Cougar, that's good to hear. Have you always driven it in Alaska? Inspires confidence. From everything I've read and asked about the Subaru Outback, and my own experienced with a 4 cylinder Volvo and 4 cylinder rent-a-cars, I'm only interested in the H6 Outbacks. Including LL Bean H6s expands the pool as there aren't that many VDCs out there 01-03. Have you also driven an H6 with the VDC to compare?

Hi jamal, The questions are SEPARATE questions - a question about best tires to get doesn't belong in the same thread as choosing which edition or year of a vehicle. A question about inspecting or about a particular mechanical problem (head gaskets) doesn't belong in the same thread as buying. And on. I may be new to USMB but I'm not new to online forums and have been a strong contributing member to others for years. Having different posts with specific titles enables those members best able to comment or benefit from those discussions to participate in them. I'm very thankful for the advice I've gotten here, members have been terrific, but there's no merit to your comment at all.

What are OBW and HG?

Wow that was super helpful. Thanks again. Would you really still go to buy a used 2001 for as much as $10-11K when as you mentioned you might be able to pick up a new 2008 for $19K? What do you think an LL Bean H6 3.0L 2008 would go for in cash from an Arizona or other area dealer that isn't moving them? Note MSRP for this model is $32K. Wouldn't it be hard to get your value selling the older car (2001)? Would it not be easier to hold the value with a 2003? And if you could buy a 2008 at a low enough price, wouldn't it be easy to sell for what you bought it for or a little more? Meaning, why pay $10-11K for a 2001, or $16-17K for a 2003, if you could get a 2008 for 19K? Also, if you could buy a Subaru Outback 2008 loaded for as little as 19K, wouldn't you find buyers in higher-price areas like the East Coast or Seattle taking advantage of the arbitrage and buying them in another area and having them shipped to them? I'm not doubting you about new 2008s for 19K, I'm hopeful you're right! But I'm trying to understand then why go for a 2001 for 10-11K? 19K is so below the E Coast or Seattle price, why not get the new 08 for 19K and then if you had to ship it back to the E Coast?

See bold * below

To help evaluate a car locally, would pay for your time. May have to evaluate in SF Bay Area and in LA remotely. Will do full garage inspection, but would be helpful to have someone knowledgeable take a look. Will be an H6, either VDC or LL Bean. If you are interested, please email or PM me. Could really benefit from an experienced local subie driver.

Why is year irrelevant in this case? Because of the quality of the maker/model? Do miles always take precedent over year with VDC 01-05?

Any tips on specific vehicles in the list you'd go for, assuming all other things equal, much appreciated. Also, any tips on buying a used car from a dealer much appreciated. No experience with this. How much to offer under their ask, and what extras (guarantee period, free or low cost service check at a certain point, etc.).

Thanks CNY Dave, How are the "I buy 'em fix 'em sell 'em" tribe different from dealers? Just more amateurish? Do you evaluate the service record on the basis of Carfax, current owner's copy of records and/or other? What exactly is the 50K/60K service? Is this only for cars under 50-60K in miles? If the mileage is over 50-60K, is there a service deal you can get? Is there a typical 30-60 guarantee from dealers? Never bought from a dealer before.

Thanks to this forum’s help, I’ve narrowed our Outback search to an H6 VDC edition, roughly 01-05 model years, and would appreciate your feedback on the following VDC vehicles we’re evaluating. I’d like to send the best 1-2 options for a thorough garage inspection right away. Which are the best 1-2 values to send for inspection? Which would you be cautious about/stay away from? All are supposed to be in good cosmetic condition, but can’t be sure about the mechanics until an inspection, and the cost of inspections can start to add up. Arranged in order of year and asking price, includes mileage and KBB and Edmunds estimates based on temporary assumption of car’s condition based on seller description (before I have inspected). A) 2001, Miles 130,000, Asking $8,000, Dealer seller. KBB $10,875, Edmunds $10,528, assuming good condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. Concerned the big delta between the asking price and KBB and Edmunds could mean something is seriously wrong. 2001, Miles 82,740, Asking $12,000, Individual seller. KBB $12,755, Edmunds $13,168, assuming excellent condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. Seller claims that car was always dealer serviced. C) 2001, Miles 60,680, Asking $12,400, Individual seller. KBB is $14,170 Edmunds $13,958 assuming excellent condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. Seller says he bought from previous owner (a son who inherited from father and didn’t need the car). Seller says he buys a few cars/year, cleans them up for resale to make a few bucks. Condition notes - small ding on driver’s side door, tiny paint scratch over rear bumper that was painted over, a little scuffing on outside of driver’s seat. D) 2003, Miles 74,800, Asking $14,000, Dealer seller. KBB $14,505, Edmunds $16,176, assuming good condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. E) 2003, Miles 65,000, Asking $15,000, Dealer seller. KBB $15,730, Edmunds $16,188, assuming good condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. F) 2001, Miles 61,500, Asking $16,000. Dealer Seller. KBB $14,110 and Edmunds $13,849, assuming excellent condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. Looks WAY overpriced. G) 2003, 46,000 miles, $17,000, Dealer seller. KBB $19,315 and Edmunds $18,186, assuming excellent condition. Cosmetic condition looks good. Has OnStar system (though could care less about OnStar).

Thanks for all the advice. LOL rust is not a big concern, but was only in mind because a friend in Carmel, California years ago complained of her car being eaten away by rust from the fog that rolls in every day at around 6PM and rolls out next day around 11AM. Keeping it longer term is up in the air only because of an illness in the family where it might be better for us to be on the E Coast for a few months in the fall, long term we'd still be splitting time between W Coast and E Coast, so would likely be keeping the car. Even if sold at some point in a few months, wouldn't buying a good older 01-03 H6 or H6 VDC be a smart move as the engines are better than the H4, the 6 cylinders seem to age better and hold their value longer, the 6 cylinder acceleration adds to safety and so does the VDC system?