greenleg88

Photo album link added. and again here. Suspended particulate is definitely metallic and steel, dragging a magnet through it was pretty fun. haha. Definitely no chunks, so i figure someone who has seen more transmission pans off may be able to just say "that's normal" I agree it may be on its way to doom as well... It was most notable when starting from a complete stop, revs would increase and hang around 3k rpm while vehicle speed increased eventually. It would shift pretty hard and maybe hang a little bit, but most notable was from a dead stop. The few times i saw the "AT Oil temp" light on, it was just overrevving and felt slippery all over the place. It makes sense that with overheated/old fluid, there was more slip, thereby exacerbating the heat generation, especially at low speeds seen in off-roading. Just drove the car a bit more with the fresh fluid, to get it moving through the transmission, and it feels a lot better. It is much more responsive from a stop, and all around drives fine. Some observations: - The fluid is still super dark now that the rest of the fluid is mixed in; I may perform another drain and replace in a few weeks to get more old fluid out. The real test is if I continue to get "AT Oil Temp" lights/overheat the fluid when I'm out in remote areas. - The whirring sound when in Drive or reverse is still present, and I can not confidently say it goes away at speed (was suspecting it was just whirring from the torque converter until it fully locks up). - If the transmission is on its way out, its going to be driven until failure as I don't plan on changing it prematurely. Depending on how the slipping behavior plays out, It will probably just get a couple more fluid changes between now and then..

Update: Oil pan was removed, inspected the guts- nothing egregious stuck out. There was significant (~1/4”) clearance between the dent in the oil pain and any of the internals. There was a pretty thick film of essentially ferrofluid on the bottom of the tray and magnet. Can anyone comment on the amount of metal shavings in the fluid for a trans with 157k miles? Photos to be posted on a separate link- This looks like a TON more then expected. With everything back together and fresh Subaru fluid, the car shifts noticeable better in all gears, almost like new! The whirring sound when in reverse or drive still remains and it still feels to be slipping. https://imgur.com/a/N2TsI05

The steering was a bit tight when stopped making parallel parking a nuisance. Once the rpms increase, the steering feels fine again. I noticed the power steering pump and surrounding area was totally soaked in fluid when I was doing all the other timing belt work so I swapped it out- the resistance feels marginally better at low rpm but i think it’s still there. Seems like a separate problem though. Roger that- my plan was to swap the fluid and un-dent the pan/inspect for damage just to see what happens. I suspect the fluid hasn’t been changed in the life of the car. Hopefully there is a smidge of life left, but I’ll start looking at replacement transmissions. Some of the referenced threads i included links to in my OP seem to imply the 5EAT is “hot Garbo” with frequent valve body replacements necessary to keep it running. I haven’t been driving the car so it’s not getting worse, but I hope to have more info/findings in the coming weeks.

Yeah I'm not too concerned with the sports mode switch at the moment; that seems mild compared to the mechanical issues. What is TB an acronym for? (torque bind?) I have another car, almost identical except 5MT. In comparison, the car in question drives pretty much normal; I am not fighting the steering wheel (aside from some resistance, likely due to a known power steering rack leak on the passenger side). When accelerating, I would describe the car as "heavy" feeling because of the active slip. I find it especially odd because i have yet to do a ATF change - only the fluid that drained from removing the radiator and the ATF filter has been replaced. I'm hesitant to accept that it could be a bad tranny mount because that the rubbing sound started immediately after that change was performed. I'm okay with finding out I need to replace the transmission, i would just like to be able to diagnose it correctly. If there's a chance i could replace the valve body assembly, along with all the solenoids, that sounds way nicer. The concern is if there has been significantly more damage done to the transmission itself (either from neglecting the fluid or prolonged use with mismatched wheels).

Thanks for the reply nipper. If it shows the previous cycle, then that is very odd because I haven’t had the sport shift mod error in at least 10 start/stop cycles and the most recent time the engine ran, I got the at temp light I parked the car immediately and haven’t been driving it since. If a fault code were to come up I would expect it to have been listed. -Could you elaborate more on what you think the problem is? -Also, how did you determine there is/was torque bind? I’m quite sure you identified torque bind on my 98 legacy about 10 years ago, but this car feels nothing like that- just pure slipping. Wheels and tires are all matching with very even tread wear . The car did come with another set of wheels that the previous owner said he took off right away, but that did have a difference of maybe 3/32 between front and rear. If any damage was done, I’d suspect it is possible from when those wheels and tires were in use.

Yeah, it seems to point at Body integrated unit (BIU) and then the gear shift selector. Both of which I believe don't seem related to the real slipping issue.

I still have to find the time to take the transmission pan off, but i was able to pull the TCU codes; No codes on the ECU, but the TCU had: P1817 - Sports Mode Switch Circuit (Manual Switch) I didn't mention this in the original post, as its only happened 2 or 3 times, where when if I put the car into manual mode and shift the transmission then try to revert back into "D", the car remains in manual shift mode. Also something that happens is the I, S, and S# engine tune knob is a little unresponsive occasionally; i imagine this the symptom causing this code. I don't suspect that is related to the trans slipping though. I found a cold thread that described the symptoms I am experiencing but they had codes P0700, and P1718 whereas I did not see any active or temporary diagnostic trouble codes on my TCU. Upon reading more, it seems like a fault transmission fluid pressure switch could also cause similar problems as I'm experiencing. Will post more another update once I pull the pan off.

Thanks for the reply. 1. There is no indication of any kind of fault light on the dashboard. Are TCU fault codes typically hidden? or is it possible that there can be a code, but not displayed? I only have an OBD2 reader, but I seem to remember the wifi/phone app version of the reader I've used before having a TCU reading feature. Or ill look into getting the FreeSSM software setup. 2. No current check engine lights. 3. A-ha! yeah there is a small dent, on the trans pan. I suspect from an off-roading incident. I was anticipating removal of the ATF oil pan in the future anyway, I suppose i'll plan on replacing the pan when I get to that and inspecting for damage. The drain plug is also impressively seized in the pan anyway. 4. Didn't come across any TSBs on the Subaru website. It seems as thought though their general recommendation for troublesome transmissions is to swap the entire valve body assembly, even if it may just simply be a solenoid or some other sensor. Pretty much along the lines of don't bother with diagnosing, just swap the whole thing. Previous owner seemed generally open about most things, though I imagine would want to hide any transmission issues. I don't initially suspect this was a known issue prior to sale because all work was done at a shop with receipts. Though I imagine if the shop were to recommend a valve body replacement along with some of the other work I just did, that may have been the catalyst for sale. Transmission was slipping a bit and AT fluid overheated on one road trip, but was otherwise drivable; the car really turned into a paperweight after it was reassembled, after the ATF fluid loop was opened during timing belt/radiator work. I'm wondering if topping off the fluid (some more? might not have cycled through the gears enough when filling) may be necessary, it is slipping quite egregiously right now. I will wait for further responses, but it sounds like I should plan on: - Check for TCU codes - Remove/replacing the AT oil pan, inspect for damage, replace fluid.

Hello All, Its been several years since I've posted, but I come to you all for your wisdom. Patient: - 2008 outback XT limited, 5EAT, 157k miles, owned since ~152k miles Symptoms: - Transmission slipping, occasional hard shifts - RPMs rise when accelerating from a stop with non proportional increase in vehicle speed, bangs 2nd and 3rd gear sometimes. - "Rubbing sound" when car is running and is put in reverse or drive etc. Sound goes away when in park or neutral. The sound can be described as a light sand paper sound. May be the transmission bands slipping; I am not sure what the source of the sound is. - AT Fluid Temp light illuminates at times. first time i saw this light was after about 3 miles of some very low speed off roading. - Coolant Overheating on very large climb (3000ft, over 5 miles, in 90°+ heat) suspect partially related to ATF dumping heat into radiator. - AT fluid temp light illuminated on a 3 mile trip around town, immediately after recent maintenance*. Recent Maintenance: - Timing belt, water pump, thermostat, 11MM Oil pump, coolant temp sensor, coolant (radiator out), - Replaced ATF filter, refilled ATP to "full" mark using Subaru ATF while engine is running. - Power steering pump, engine oil cooler gasket, brakes, other unrelated blah blah My thoughts: - Intention was to replace the ATF as part of this job as well, but to keep issues separate the ATF change will be performed later. - Since the transmission was slipping prior to all the unrelated engine maintenance, (and only the ATF cooler and filter loop was opened, but refilled) the transmission should otherwise be slipping, heating up the flood, and shifting hard as it was prior to the radiator removal event. My questions: Any ideas as to what is causing the slipping? I suspect slipping and hard shifting is somewhat separate, as the hard shifting could be due to something valve body related. Should I proceed with a drain and replace of the ATF and return to full mark (while engine is running) or don't bother. Am I looking at a potential torque converter, valve body assembly, full transmission replacement? Thanks all! Related threads I've found: https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/171114-outback-5eat-vs-cvt/?tab=comments#comment-1417184 https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/170318-5eat-blown-transmission-cooler-fitting/?tab=comments#comment-1411338 https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/171001-fb25-engine-reliability/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-1417221 https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/170658-transmission-engine-or-all-the-above/?tab=comments#comment-1413879 ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/170283-2005-turbo-xt-outback-exhaust-question/?tab=comments#comment-1411088 https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/170283-2005-turbo-xt-outback-exhaust-question/?tab=comments#comment-1411071 https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/169577-05obxt-vs-03-forester/?tab=comments#comment-1405536

So i suppose the plan is to replace the transmission as soon as possible... which wont be possible for at least a few more weeks. The clicking has developed into a significantly more noticeable whine sometime in the last 80 miles or so. In my past experiences, it does sound more like a brinelled bearing than a gear missing teeth. Perhaps someone could take a listen and make some comments? Im hoping can still squeeze out another 1500 miles out of this very sad transmission as I am in the middle of the country in Kansas at the moment.

hmm. well that was informative.. i just got 4 brand new tires mounted and balanced on the car, and there is definitely a shake at about 60 miles an hour. i am thinking about bringing the wheels to get balanced again, as i dont recall this shake being there before the tires were changed (but the noise was still present)... any other thoughts or ideas to make this a definitive diagnosis and not something such as throw out bearing which was mentioned (because of the elevated noise while clutching).speaking of which, what do bad throwout bearings sound like...? potentially similar kind of rolling/humming/tick? These are the two gears you suggest replacing? plus the center diff which slides onto that splined shaft.. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5863/trannydiff017kg3.jpg i saw you made a few posts about someone else working on a similar project. any thoughts on where to sources the parts [people seem to be getting lucky and finding parts for <$300, but the center diff alone seems to be about 500], and estimated time to complete the job [seems like 3 hours... assuming no broken bolts]? (potentially with access to a lift)

I will work on getting an audio clip up. thanks for the replies the tranny fluid was changed within the last 5000 miles, and there was certainly a bit of metal on the magnet (picture soon) if that is the case, with the center differential and transfer gear, how long have people been driving on them before immediate attention was necessary? i am not too familiar with the parts of this transmission and have been trying to look at different diagrams to get a better understanding. what type of damage occurs when the center differential completely fails and what is the worst case?

speed dependent was supposed to mean speed of the driveline. BUT coasting in neutral at idle, the sound is very very quiet, but i if i can hear it, it would be at the same rate i believe. coasting in gear, off load, the noise is quite noticeable when the radio and blower fan is off. on load, the noise is there, but tough to pick out over the engine of course. a partially engaged clutch, while shifting gears makes it a very loud noise.

i have had mismatched tires on the car, for a while, and based on my research, am quite confident it is an issue with the center differential. can anyone confirm this? and perhaps comment on how long these can be driven on like this before a catastrophic failure. i have driven less than 100 miles since hearing the noise. although...i am not experiencing torque bind (yet?) and perhaps i will eventually i imagine...? i was reading this thread - http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f89/center-diffs-how-replace-them-46979/

2000 Impreza outback sport - Manual Transmission 209k miles Hello all - It has been a while since I have been on here, but I know this message board is full of knowledge, and I'm having some trouble diagnosing a speed dependent clicking noise in the drive train somewhere. The clicking started before my last major project, in which i replaced: - All 4 Struts - Steering Rack - Both Tie rod ends - Rebuilt power steering pump - Both Front Axles - Both lower control arm ball joints - 4 New Tires - Transmission fluid (prior to this project, but still recently) Many may immediately jump to CV joint, but noticed the wear from the old damaged ones, and that is no longer noticable with the new axles, so i have ruled those out. The noise is speed dependent, i can feel the clicking in the shift knob, and when the clutch pedal is partially depressed, the noise is significantly louder.it is a relatively fast click - i think it is similar to the sound made when two wheels are off the ground, and you rotate the wheel one direction, and you hear the clicking from the differential. Seems to be speed dependent only and can be heard in any gear. My thoughts are: - Clutch - would a broken finger from the pressure plate cause such a clicking? - Differential - Transmission any help would be greatly appreciated. I do need to drive the car across the country in less than 5 days.