mikec03

Here's a post by AWD showing the new head gasket installed in the NA 2010 Subarus. It's a MLS like the turbos. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-changed-there-head-gasket-for-the-2010-25l/

Ivan Imports I have read every post in in four Subaru forums in the past 6-7 years concerning head gaskets, and you are the very first to advocate a "form a gasket" as a head gasket replacement! Congratulations for advancing a new idea. I'm going back my fox hole now before the shooting starts.

Question: According to some internet information, subaru changed HG for the 07 model to the 633 gasket. However, the jury is still out as to whether that change will reduce the failures.

Someone from Prestone recently posted the production point in 2002 where Subaru started to add the conditioner and extended the warrenty on the head gaskets to 100K miles. They are: Sedan = 2129 vehicles Wagon= 1972 Outback =5593 Now the question: At this point [1] did Subaru just start adding the conditioner AND/OR [2] did Subaru switch over from the 521 HG to the 632 HG? In short, did they also change the type of head gasket at that time. Eventually they went to the 633 gasket, of course. My 2002 sedan was manufactured in Jan 2002 and was the 11.722 sedan made. The head gasket is steel with a black coating which is brittle and peeling off. I don't know if this is the 521 or 632 HG. Extra Credit: what is the difference between the 521, 632, and 633 gaskets? Maybe it's academic, since many of the 03-05 are showing head gasket failures, indicating that the 632 gasket is no better then the 521. It could however be important as a wedge issue to get Subaru to kick in for the HG repair.

How do you know if your gas fill pipe is leaking? It corrodes out where the plastic guard presses up against it about 18" below the fill point. You will smell the gas if you stick your head behind the rear wheel. Both of my 90's subaru had the fill pipe corroded out at about 13-14 old.

These replies so far have been good BUT they don't answer the posters original question as to what could "strand" him. To answer this question, please imagine yourself living 50 miles north of Fairbanks. Tie rods, struts, or axle boots wouldn't strand you there. 1. I would first suggest alternator failure, but you already replaced that. 2. The starter can fail, although in a couple of my 80 & 90's subarus, it gave advanced warning so I was never really stranded. At worst, it required a 15-20 tries to get it to engaged and sometimes an hour wait. [side note: the rebuilt alternators are probably as good as the original subaru's but the rebuilt starters are definitely not]. 3. Even a wheel bearing probably wouldn't strand you. I once rode 50 miles at 20 miles/hr with the subaru front bearing screaming. Even then I had advanced warning which I didn't understand/ignored. I can't think of anything else that will definitely strand you, other then broken belts but you seem to have taken care of that. I suppose the radiator hoses or the radiator could spring a big leak? Maybe someone else has had a catastrophic failure that will chime in. However, I do warn my kids [who drive the 90's subarus] that they have to be alert. And I'm within driving distance so I can rescue them which has happened twice [alternator and starter]. PS. How have you managed not to replace your gas fill pipe?

jim milewski If you pulled out a MLS hg from your 1'st gen dohc, all the internet comments indicate that your HG had already been changed! Were you aware of that? The MLS that you pulled out also sounds like the Subaru replacement gasket. Incidentally, people who should know think that the Subaru 1st gen replacement gasket is almost bullet proof, but of course that depends on the skill of the installer. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-changed-there-head-gasket-for-the-2010-25l/

You make me jealous since I only have 210K on my '95. But I have had so many rust holes in it, I'm buying Bondo by the gallon, and it will never make 300k just due to the rust alone.

The dealership replacement gaskets for almost all of the 2.5 NA engines is the 11044AA633. I don't think that you could get any other from a dealership even if you wanted to. Although I have not yet had an HG replaced, the most knowligible posters [in my opinion] think that the engine should be removed and the heads trued up. Be aware that you are only allowed .002" out of flatness for the combined head and block! Actually, it would probably be better for you to check what the track record of the repair place that you chose. Of course, this is very difficult to check. Good luck.

OK, I'm convinced. No additives. But is it better to drive around without the solenoid activated? The torque bind is only a little annoying except in tight turns. Or should I put the fuse in and drive 2 wheel during the spring, summer, and fall which is what I prefer? If by continuously activating the solenoid, it eventually fails am I any worse off? I could just do the repair at that time. Or, I already have 204K miles and maybe it will last until 300K [at which time I can put the car to sleep]. There's no check engine flashing and no codes. And I did a ton of circles, frontward and backward with no effect.

I know what your thinking. Not another torque bind post! I have a '95 auto with 204k miles. I have torque bind the last 2 years. I have been running in the summer with the solenoid activated in order to run with 2 wheel drive. But posts here have made me scared that the solenoid will fail since it isn't really supposed to be activated for long periods of time. I've changed [drain/fill] the ATF three times but this doesn't seem to do any good. Maybe I shouldn't have used the generic Advanced Auto fluid? Anyway, I read ALL the torque bind posts and I know everyone's opinion! [i really do] But is there anyone here who used the limited slip stuff [Trans X, GM LSD, Lucas LSD, NAPA LSD] and has run their car for a long time [say 50K] without a problem?

I have to do this on my '95. Can someone specify the relay they used. The amp rating on the connected side must be quite a bit higher then a normal relay.

I was going by the following quote from Wiki: "Beginning in the 1997 Model Year, the 2.2 liter engine for 1997 Legacy and Impreza models has had internal and external changes that yield an approximately 10% increase in power and 3% increase in fuel economy. Accomplishing this involves many factors........ Compression ratio has been increased to 9.7 to 1 by reshaping the crown of the piston. This eliminates the clearance that was available between the piston at TDC and the fully opened valve."

Since I have a '97, it would be nice to think that some were made without the interference pistons. You would think that someone on this site either has a bore scope or has taken the heads off a '97 and could post the mgf date of the car and whether it's interference. Maybe some are not aware that the top of the piston should be domed if it is a interference piston. I hope that subaru replies to ocei77, but I doubt that they will.

My fuel pump died. But I went to a junk yard and pulled a used one for an old subaru. I guess that was smarter then I knew.

I only have 25k on the timing belt [subaru oem] so I won't change it for a while. I know that it is a interference engine [why did subaru do that!]. Anyway, I will look you guys up when the time comes. Thanks again.

Thanks Tom [aka TheLoyale] for listening to my engine. The person at Sommers Subaru [Andy] agreed with you. He said that if it was a rod knock, it would be noisier at higher speeds and wouldn't go away when the car heats up and that it was likely piston slap which occasionally happens with 2.2 engines. I was kind of surprised that he didn't suggest any money costing investigations. My previous impression is that they are honest and competent at Sommers. Thanks to all for the suggestions and advice. I will keep running it and hope for the best. It sure sounds a little bit like this when cold however [from subaruoutback.org] and this engine froze shortly thereafter. http://www.nlsa.com/Subaru/SubaruSound.wmv

Thanks TheLoyal It's a '97 2.2 legacy. I could drive it to you anytime Friday if convenient. Email me @ mchellman@wi.rr.com. I'm right on the Waukesha/Mil border.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm still trying to nail down that I definitely have rod knock and I will proceed with a swap if I do.

Dagostino looks intriguing. Do you know if they have done a lot of subarus swaps? Would they buy the motor?

It looks like I will have to do a 2.2 engine swap. Is there a non dealer shop or person in the Milwaukee area with experience in this?

Maybe I can clear up some of the confusion. Subaru used head gaskets that had three different numbers from 00 to 09. Unfortunately, no one on the various subaru forums know the difference between them. I know because I have tried very hard to find out. The last gasket [11044AA633] which was installed starting around Nov. 05 is now used as a replacement for ALL NA SOHC engines 00-99. Unfortunately, many of the cars with this OE gasket have failed which you can confirm using the search engine. Furthermore, even though this time period included the use of three different engine models, the fact that the same head gasket can be used in all of them indicates that there is not significant difference between the engines in regard to the structural strength at the block and head connection. PS the 633 gasket is a single metal sheet with a thin, hard black coating on both sides.

I have a '95 with 202K. It's somewhat a matter of price. At 250k, You can expect a lot of things randomly failing as you probably know: starter, water pump, bearings, oxygen sensors, fuel pump, etc. Specifically, for this model year, the gas filling tube is leaking or has already been replaced, and the back panels above the rear wheels should be rusted through. And on my '01 that I used to have, the clutch completely failed at about that mileage. But if is less the $1000, and you don't mind being stopped by the side of the road occasionally, go for it. In point of fact, my '95, has been stopped by the side of the road twice in the last 70K.

Ive done 3 rust repairs in this area of the 90's cars. The procedure is cut, fiberglass, bondo a few times, and paint. You can get it as smooth as you want with the bondo, sand, bondo etc. The only thing that I have learned is that if there is a 1/2" rust hole, then cut a 3" hole out. You have to get rid of the partially rusted area or the rust will be back in a year.

fiber-tex Maybe this is a common problem with the 2.2's? As I posted earlier, I got the car to start down to 10 degF by replacing the cts and fixing an air leak, but it didn't fix the root cause. But what I do now is start the car with the accelerator all the way down. The car starts immediately, and I quickly release the accelerator petal. Yesterday, it started at 0 degF on the first crank. So try it. Starting the engine with the accelerator at 100% is a classic remedy for a flooded engine. So does this board think that my fuel injectors are leaking, and the cold cts rich fuel set point combined with the leaking injectors is flooding the engine?