BrightLights

Thanks to both Cougar and 89Ru and everybody else who has helped me. Yes, the wire from pin #85 of the relay will first go to my driver's position toggle switch and then to a splice into the white wire. It means running another small guage wire through the grommet in the firewall, but *that* I know how to do. Thanks again - this sounds completely right to me.

Hi, Fairtax4me. In Vermont it's exactly the opposite. By law, driving lights have to be wired to come on and off with the high beams. You can have no more than two. And they have to be mounted lower than the car's headlights or, if not, be covered when on a public road. It's all right there in the motor vehicle inspection manual, available for download at: http://www.aot.state.vt.us/dmv/INSPECTION/INSPECTION.htm See page "Car 5.10": 6. Driving and Fog Lamps. Two (2) driving lamps and two (2) fog lamps are permitted on a vehicle provided they are wired to prevent lighting more than two (2) at the same time. a. Fog to assist low beam only. b. Driving to assist high beam only. Any driving or fog lights mounted higher than the headlights must be covered when vehicle is being operated on the highway.

You are not mistaken. I tested for the presence of voltage to ground with the connector physically removed from the high beam, so that (1) the bulb/filament was completely out of the circuit, and thus (2) there was nothing connecting the green wire electrically to the white wire. I see a potential problem with Cougar's solution, but maybe it's no problem at all. The idea with Cougar's solution would be that the green wire supplies current to the trigger circuit (connecting it, say, to pin #86 of the relay) and then tying pin #85 to the white wire would permit a path to ground when the high beams are selected. There would then be a complete circuit for the trigger current, the relay would close, and the driving lights would come on. The potential problem I see is that when the high beams are selected, current will be flowing from the green wire, through the filament, and then to ground through the white wire. Will this current flowing through the white wire when the high beams are on interfere with the trigger circuit's path to ground through the same white wire? Thanks a million for all your help so far. Please tell me if I'm off base here. If Cougar's solution won't work, I have a more involved solution involving a second relay that I think would work, but simpler is much better.

No, the Bosch relay operates only as normally open. I am hesitant to try your approach since I do not know the function of the white wire. It seems odd, but I am wondering if that is how the voltage fed to the high beams gets to ground: The green wire has voltage whether the high beams or low beams are selected and the white wire has voltage only when the low beams are selected. Is it possible that selecting the high beams permits current to flow from the green wire through the high beam bulb and then to ground through the white wire?

Hi, Cougar. Maybe I'm just slow, and I certainly am unexperienced with the new breed of car electronics, but I am having trouble following your advice as applied to my car. My intent was *always* to tie pin # 86 on the relay to the power side of the high beam. That way, if the high beam goes out I still have the driving lights. The problem I am wrestling with is that I cannot identify the power side of the high beam. The high beams and low beams are separate on my car. The high beam has a push-on connector with just two wires. With the plug pulled from the high-beam bulb, and testing for voltage between the terminals in the push-on connector and ground, I get thew following results: green wire: voltage to ground when headlights turned on and low *or* high beams selected; white wire: voltage to ground when headlights turned on *only* when low beams selected. (The bulb seems to be well insulated and does not appear to ground through the headlight housing, but I can't be sure of this.) This is unlike anything I have previously experienced, and, given these results, I am unable to identify any power side for the high beam. The green wire has power whether the high beams or low beams are selected, even though it is connected to the high beam bulb, and the white wire has power only when the low beams are selected even though, again, it is connected to the high beam bulb. Any thoughts? Or am I missing something I shouldn't be?

Hi, Cougar, and thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I follow you, though. The high beam sockets have only two wires, one (green) has voltage to ground when either the high beams or low beams are on, and one (white) has voltage to ground only when the low beams are on. I cannot locate any "middle power lead" going to the high beams. As I mentioned, for the trigger circuit for the relay I need a trigger voltage that is only present when the high beams are on. Cany you clarify? Many thanks again.

Progress is being made. I have answered the question I posted, but that has led to another, which I hope you can help me with (it's far less mysterious). First things first. The solution to makeing the car start with a new wire attached to the battery "+" terminal turned out ot be very simple (I went to town yesterday and bought heavy duty aluminum foil and large alligator clips, but this turned out to be unnecessary). The car goes through a little self-test routine when you start it. All of the guages go through their full sweep and all the warning lights come on, then go out. When you start the car normally, you shoot right past the "accessory" position on the ignition switch to the start position. *After* the car turns over and starts, it goes through its self-test routine. I was never getting to this point because the car would not start with the wire connected to the battery. The solution was to connect the wire from the battery to the relay, then turn the key only as far as the "accessory" position. The car went through its self-test routine with the key in that position. I turned the key to "off", then started the car normally. It starts normally every time now with the wire from the battery to the relay connected, so that problem is solved. But I have encountered a problem wiring up the trigger circuit. The driving lights must, by law, be wired to come on and off with the car's high beams. I *thought* I had the correct wire tapped. The high beams each have a push on connector with two wires, one white and one green. I pulled the connector, switched on the brights, and used a circuit tester to determine that there was voltage between the green wire and ground and no voltage between the white wire and ground. So I tapped the green wire. Logical enough, but apparently wrong. After solving the no-start problem, I discovered that the driving lights came on with both the low and high beams (though not with the headlights turned off). So I investigated further and found that there is voltage between the green wire and ground with *either* the high beams or low beams on, and voltage between the white wire and ground *only* with the low beams and not the high beams. Can anybody help me determine what wire I should tap as the trigger voltage for my relay so that the driving lights come on with the high beams but not the low beams? Many thanks, again, for any help. Here is a picture of the mounted lights:

I called SOA and they politely but firmly declined to help. Same with the service manager at the local Subaru agency. I bet there is a reprogrammable parameter that would take care of the issue, but SOA and my dealership aren't talking. Your suggestion that I consult an anti-theft installer and OB99W's suggestion that I visit http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/ are good ones.

Thanks very much for this excellent suggestion. Yes, there is an electrical supply store about 15 miles away in Montpelier. I just didn't know what to ask for, but now I do. Thanks again.

Early on I tried to start the car multiple times. I admit that lately I have just been trying once. By the way, the car always turns over strongly, even on the first try after re-connecting the battery; it simply won't catch at all. I think the next thing to try might be to attach the wire to the battery "+" terminal and the relay and then, instead of trying to start the car, turn the key to the accessory position, let the car go through its "full sweep" sequence, *then* try to start the car. This is just a hunch on my part, but maybe if the car is switched to the accessory with a proper key (with the embedded chip), the car will sense the wire, however it does that, and decide that it's okay. If that doesn't work, I'll try the other things suggested. This may not happen until later in the week due to commitments/weather, but I am eager to get ot the bottom of this and grateful for all the help from this forum.

I assure you I am not. I went through a lot to mount the lights and to try to troubleshoot the install. As of right now, I have beautiful Cibie lights fully mounted and wired (except for the *one* wire), and they are for the time being purely ornamental. You can all imagine, I am sure, how frustrating this is. I'll take a picture and post it tomorrow or Wednesday.

I am willing to try these things, as well as wrapping the wire from the battery to the relay around the main starter cable. With regard to trying shielded wire, where does one go shopping for shielded wire of an appropriate guage (12-14 preferable)? I'm just familiar with house wiring, audio sound systems, and old-school car wiring, none of which use shielded wire (except for low voltage mic and line cables; speaker cables are unshielded). With regard to taking power from another place, it seems that it would be best to take if from a source that is not energized until after the car has started. Otherwise (absent other measures), the car would detect it however it is doing so and prevent the car from starting. Any suggestions of an appropriate place to tap into? And I'm curious. Has no one with a 2009 Outback tried, either successfully or unsuccessfully, to take power for an accessory directly from the battery? I don't even know at this point whether my car is an anomaly or whether all owners of the same model would experience this problem. Thanks again for all your thoughts.

Hi Gloyale, and thanks. Two questions: 1. Could you please be more specific about how to identify and access this main power lead? 2. Why would this be different electrically from attaching the ring terminal to the "+" terminal of the battery or the alternator? Thanks again for your help.

No alarm lights on the dash turn on, but on a couple of occasions the "chirp" that you hear when you use the remote to lock or unlock the car (or a similar sound) chirped continuously for a few seconds when I turned the ignition switch off after a failed effort to strart the car, something it has never done under any other circumstances. No, everything else seems normal. What would (or might) wrapping the wire around the main starter wire do? Thanks again for your suggestions.

I tried every which way: Ring terminal under the nut that threads onto the bolt that pinches the clamp around the positive terminal; Ring terminal under the square head of the same bolt (on the other side of the clamp); Larger ring terminal under the nut/washer that threads onto the vertically oriented bolt just downtream from the positive terminal (still under the red plastic guard); Ring terminal on the positive side of the alternator. Here's another data point: when I put *just* a ring terminal (no wire) under the nut on the battery clamp bolt, the car starts fine. You're absolutely correct: something is just not right here. I never encountered anything similar on any of the other three cars I put driving lights on. But I have tried many, many times and the result is always the same.