GlenSz

yeah, definitely a Loyale, you can tell from the pic, as noted by Coyote Paws: Thanks for that info, definitely helping me to understand the vocabulary better now. wasn't really sure what HLA's were initially when people were first talking about them, but now i get it, thanks again. good advice here, gonna see what a new pump will cost VS. just the oil pump seal kit (oil pump shaft seal and the pump body seal). although i would like to not take the chance, i also don't want to replace the pump unnecessarily at an additional cost, but i can understand want to just do it while everything is taken out anyway....wish i woulda known all this when the timing belt went and i paid to have it replaced and the timing package reset, but i'm learning all this still. i'm really hoping you're right on this one, @175eya said the same thing about the mickey mouse seal and suggested doing that first as well, vs. a whole new oil pump, but with what it'll take me w/ the help and patience of @175eya to do the work, i probably won't want to take the chance that i might have to take everything out again to do the pump as well. thanks everyone who've replied to this thread. it's this kinda free education from the experience of others that keeps me glued to this message board. thanks again, Glen

trying to eliminate my TOD (tick of death) or lifter tick and looking into maybe just making some adjustments along w/ using a heavier weight oil along with an oil treatment, but not sure i can make those changes if the rocker-arms are hydraulic. it would seem that based on the relative simplicity of the Loyale's engine, they'd be solid, but not sure. anyone got a firm answer for me? thanks much, Glen

just an update, I added used 15-40W oil and used Slick-50 and after a few hours of driving locally, the tick almost completely went away. I took a trip to Jersey over the weekend during which I drove on the highway up to 70mph and greater distances like an hour and a half on the highway at 65mph, and unfortunately by the end of the weekend the tick came back. But the next day which was also a warmer day it disappeared again. also, when the ticket isn't there I noticed a slight improvement in performance, i can hold it at 70 mph and it's at 4200rpm.

@175eya it's no problem about this weekend, i gotta help someone down in middletown move, so i can't anyway, and you definitely should get that money when ya can, i'm in the same boat. but we'll figure out some time soon, which leads me to my question for everyone on this thread, especially the guys who are clearly knowledgable and experienced enough to be discussing the finer points of inner-engine repair and mechanics, so outta my range that it seems as complicated as open-heart surgery, and thus far have learned some peripheral stuff, like finding the leak in a break line and bleeding them, by watching @175eya, thanks again buddy, but even the lengths that need to be taken to change the oil pump seem way outta my league, and would gladly help in anyway i could and at least watch and learn, but could never do myself. no garage, not a whole lotta tools, and almost zero experience, the only thing i have on my side is a decent amount of mechanical logic and some light construction work experience. what i need to know is if i continue to drive it with the tick/TOD, until i can figure out what it is, trying the most inexpensive/simple solutions first, will it damage my engine, damage it worse if i'm running, not necessarily it hard, like 65mph on the highway occasionally (cause i gotta conclude if the engine is not operating at peak performance, it's struggling more, the harder i push it, and could therefore do more damage to it), will i be damaging it? this afternoon i'm gonna do an oil change and use a heavier weight oil, 15-40W, and use some of that Slick-50 stuff. also, wouldn't getting my oil pressure checked first tell me if it in fact the pressure is low and could be helped by a new oil pump, before going ahead and finding the part and doing the work? wouldn't that make sense to have the pressure checked first? maybe i'll get lucky and the oil treatment and 15-40W will work, even if for a little while. thanks to everyone who've put in there opinion and offered advice, it's greatly appreciated and never taken for granted. The USMB have proven to repeatedly prove itself to have the nicest, most generous members of any BBS i've even been on, thanks again. -glen @joesubaru @superpoo93 @scoobiedubie @Subeast-EA81 @NickNakorn

Trying to assess my current '94 Loyale / 3AT situation, concerning the ticking sound which accompanies the generally rough sounding idle. Not a knocking but a tick, which i've been told is commonly referred to as "Lifter-Tick" or "the Tick of Death", and can be caused by a few different things. I'm getting help from another USMB member and fellow Loyale owner, @175eya, who said he eliminated his by swapping out his oil pump, but don't quote me on that, i think there was more to it than that. I've also heard simply using a particular type of oil treatment, not sure off the top of my head which one, and then using a heavier weight oil will more temporarily solve the problem. additionally, it's been suggested the valve covers need to be adjusted. i can live with the noise, but i'm looking to increase the performance of my little 90hp engine and more importantly, help save it from any potential damage i'm currently doing to it buy continuing to drive it while it's ticking. even being able to get it up to 70mph at 42k RPM, rather than 65 at the same RPM would make highway driving better, and i'm hoping that solving the ticking issue could help w/ that. thoughts? thanks, the generosity of knowledge and expertise i've experienced here on the USMB already has fantastic and i'm truly grateful.

seems like it was a leak in the back, passenger side line that goes between the wheel and where the other lines come together in the back of the car. i'm gonna get the cheapest/best quote from a number of different mechanics i've used before in the area, cause tracking down that same break-line and trying to replace it on my own seems like more work than it's worth if it should only cost btwn $50-$80 including the replacement line, as @175eya said it would probably be.

i can't agree with everything you said, @MR_Loyale, and i can't express my gratitude enough for all your honest advice and consideration of my situation. @175eya is actually on his way over to my apt. right now, trekking for hoboken to brooklyn to help me figure out my brakes. he's had nothing be great stuff to say about the USMB and it's members and i'm seeing what he's talking about. it's awesome to be able to link into the existing community via the internet as an obvious amateur with little to no real knowledge of the stuff necessary to do anything on my own and receive so much help, encouragement and honesty...and all for free? seriously, USMB rocks, i can't say enough. i have no apartment parking lot, just the street in front of my building and the laundromat parking lot at the end of the block...that is if my local bootleg dvd salesman who i'm pals with is working, cause he's sort of the security guard & parking lot attendant for the laundromat, lol, and watches my car if there's no parking on my street when it's crowded during the day. sometimes living in the city can be interesting? anyway, seems like on non-winter days, especially on weekends, there's at least somebody working on their car on my block, so it's pretty common-place, but not good for anything major. i also have to move it for street-cleaning, sunday-tues nights & weds-fri nights. there is a fenced in parking lot across the street from the laundromat parking lot which i think i can pay monthly for access to, but i have to ask some of the neighborhood guys who'll know. i also haven't looked into getting a small garage somewhere close by my apt.. i helped a friend insure his '51 Austin through my name cause he had no primary vehicle insurance, which you need to insure a "classic car". he had a small garage in bed-stuy, not too far from me, and he kept the Austin and a motor cycle in there with some tools. i'm gonna see what's available and make a decision, which will also include figuring out how much i can deal w/ not having a solid, daily vehicle for awhile, cause i don't want to rush this process especially as a complete novice. in recognizing that, i also don't want to waste my time, money and possibly a nice starter or project car for someone on here, the USMB, learning how to D.I.Y. it. i did want to acknowledge how lucky i am to have some of the subaru engineering help keep from destroying itself when the timing belt went. i definitely felt the almost exact same engine failure on the highway outside of Akron, OH in a '86 ford e250 van that i had for years and years, and once it went, that was it, major internal failure, no rocker-arm movement? like i might have said, i'm embarrassed with how little i know about the basic engine mechanics for having owned so many used cars and logged so many driving miles, i've literally driven through all 48 continental U.S. states. so maybe this is an opportunity to learn some more, but as i said, i know i need to have patience and help, which if i don't have enough of, could make it not worth it for me w/ the Loyale, so i'm gonna still try to figure that out. i wish i woulda got on these boards much sooner before buying the loyale, cause it definitely would have helped to know more about the car, both Loyale's in general, and that one in particular. I made a rash decision cause i just took a shot, liked how it looked, hoped for the best and wanted to believe what the young man who sold it to me told me about it and didn't know enough of what to look and listen for with it, so it's on me. what he told me was that it was his grandfather's car which he started driving a year ago after he grandad sold it to him and that he drove it daily and the noisy knocking (which i've come to find out is actually more of a "ticking", @175eya told me about the "tick of death") was happening ever since he had it and it was just loud, but drove fine. he also said he did routine maintenance on it, including regular oil changes and fluid checks. i didn't know enough to see that a bunch of spots had been bondo'd and painted and there were plenty of spots that were just painted, to make the thing look nice for an easy sale. i did, however know enough to bring it to an independent oil change place, not a jiffy lude, before taking it on the highway and back to NYC from Reading, PA area. the guy who worked at the oil change place said all the fluids were topped off and it looked like a relatively new oil filter and that it wasn't even worth him doing anything cause it was all topped off, but did say he saw a number of leak spots up front and even at the back from the rear dif, so my suspicion is that this kid just wanted to flip the car by making it look as nice as possible, cause it was relatively clean to begin with, but also not put any work into changing all the dry-rotted rubber parts in it, including all the seals, the strut mounts, hoses, etc. and merely getting an oil change and quick service so it ran long enough to sell it. all this being said, i've already invested plenty of time, money and effort into it that i kinda feel like just going for it at this point, cause i never really had much of a shot and just trying to resell it, like all 3 mechanics, 2 of which were subaru dealer mechanics, advised me to do if i was looking for a reliable and ready, everyday driving used car. i also kinda felt like after i knew the extent to which the engine needed to repaired, trying to sell it to someone else based on how it looks without disclosing everything i knew and just trying to flip it like the kid did to me wouldn't be right. also, i couldn't do that if it didn't run, and then the timing belt went. @175eya just got here, so were gonna move it to the laundromat parking lot cause my buddy is working and said it's no problem to put it in the lot, even overnight, cause our street's actually being paved tmrw so all the cars on both sides have to be moved. i'll update the thread after were done today. thanks again, muchos gracias to everyone donating their time and knowledge!

@Ivantruckman, as 175eya mentioned, it's a 3AT. @NumbChux & @175eya, not losing any fluid since the pedal feel changed. i never was below the "Low" line in the reservoir, i just filled it up when the dash light came on and was good for a few days, but then it went on again even though the reservoir level was right in btwn "FULL" & "Low". i just opened and closed the res and the light would go off, but after a few days of that, i lost pressure, so not sure if it's air in there, or if i'm leaking from the MC or brake booster. might be leaking from a burst line, but i don't seem to be leaving any puddles or spots when i'm parked, but it's hard to tell where i live and i constantly have to move it, day to day. need to check the tires for brake fluid, but if it's a caliper or cylinder leak, wouldn't my reservoir be getting low or empty? just not sure where the fluid's going if it's not emptying the res, but i have no pedal pressure. @175eya, yeah, definitely need some help checking and bleeding it, ASAP, what are your plans this weekend? particularly saturday morning/afternoon? the weather looks ok to work outside, just need the light. i don't want to drive it while it's in this state, so, being my only resident Loyale expert, how can i bribe you to maybe come my way? certainly cover your travel expenses. haha, and then some. you guys gotta know i'm trying to keep my patience with this, but yeah, the whole story of the initial finding and purchasing of this Loyale about a month ago is in another post/thread i started, which has all the info about different subaru mechanics' inspection/evaluation and warnings about this car, considering how long it sat for, etc., leaving me to wonder whether or not to keep putting money into it, considering paying too much originally for it and not knowing exactly what to look for and missing some major stuff that might've kept me from making such a quick purchase on so little info or insight when i first went to Penn. to look at it. my complete repair manual is lost in the mail somewhere and i'm not ready to drop hundreds of dollars more into it after just having the timing belt replaced at a cost of around $650. at least my waterpump is working like it should now, so the overheating issue i was experiencing is gone, but less than a week after that, this brake issue is causing me to wonder if Murphy's Law is now taking effect and i'm starting to pour money into a bottomless pit, as i was advised by 3 separate mechanics i brought it to, to check it over after first buying it. thanks for everyone's time and advise, oh and thanks for the starting tips, 175eya told me a similar trick as yours @Numbchux, holding the key in the on position and turning on and off the lights and other electrical components. but knocking the steering column with my knee is another tip to add to my bag of tricks if that happens again. i also put a battery booster in the trunk, just in case i can't find a jump if i'm desperate. the battery in there seems pretty new, so i think it's probably a bad connection. just can't tell if it's in the wires or connections at the starter or the ignition. thanks again, any and all advise is much appreciated! oh and this a link to the thread i started about what the initial mechanics' appraisals of my loyale when i first got it back from PA: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136054-loyale-more-trouble-than-its-worth/

the "Low Brake Fluid" dash indicator light started coming on, i filled it the first time, was fine for a few days, then it came on again, but the fluid in the reservoir was right between "Full" and "Low", and taking on and off the cap of the reservoir temporarily turned off the dash light. when it came on again, i made sure to fill it up completely again. then the next day, i noticed when driving, the brakes were getting softer, requiring very little pressure to push the pedal down about halfway, then eventually all the way down before the car would actually brake enough to come to a stop. i think my first concern was maybe something got into the reservoir when opening and closing it so many times and it clogged the line somewhere, but after talking to a few folks, the thought maybe some air got in and i should just bleed them completely and refill. from what of know, this car sat for probably 7 or 8 years before a got it a little over a month ago. up to this point, the brakes were working, despite the rhythmic shudder which was relative to the speed of the car when braking, like you'd experience on a bicycle if there was a bubble or bum somewhere on one of your tires. this seems more of a fluid pressure issue. the timing belt failed about 2 weeks ago and was not cheap to have fixed and definitely outta my league, as far as doing the work so i'd really like to fix this problem myself because i think i might be within my ability and resources. suggestions? i'm not giving up on it yet, but it's beginning to make me wonder if it's worth keeping for anything other than that fact the body's in good shape. did i mention sometimes it likes to not start? i mean i turn the key, there's a click, and dash lights go on, but that's it, nothing else. sometimes it only take a few tries and it starts up, but sometimes seems like it takes a bunch of tries, then leaving and coming back to it. i haven't had to jump it yet, but i've started carrying around a booster just in case. that's a whole other issue, i'm more concerned with my brakes, considering the safety aspect. very much appreciate, thank you

@Rust, your Loyale looks amazing! and yeah, same year and color, but set up the way i've been admiring other loyales online, when searching for pics. especially feeling the diamond plate job on the typical rust spots. the matte finish hood is a nice touch too. is it lifted at all? what size tires? curious if i was to get bigger tires than the (stock?) 165's that the 3AT came with VS. the 175-85's the manuals have, (thanks for that info @CoyotePaws, definitely been using all those little bits and facts to help me figure things out), how or if bigger tires would help w/ achieving more comfortable higher speeds. @Tofutti i'm beginning to think this is the major reservation of first-time loyale drivers/owners. i initially thought, when driving mine back to NYC from pennsylvania that it maybe was stuck in 4X4 mode even though the 4WD lights on the dash WEREN'T on. either that or i wasn't making it into 3rd gear. but i've counted many times now the smooth shifting between 1st, 2nd, and finally 3rd. this leads me to wonder why i forgot about owning a '87 Dodge Colt manual hatchback that only had 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears, and reverse where 5th gear would normally be on a 5-speed manual. the whole steering wheel would start shaking once you started taking it above about 65mph. i drove that car out to Boulder, CO from NJ where i bought it for $500. i even drove it into the mountains occasionally while out there and eventually driving it back to the east coast. i will never gain a better appreciation for vehicles that cruise smoothly, quietly at 80mph and have cruise-control after those long-hauls. but after lots of reassuring words from the experts on this message board and reasserted by every other mechanic i've spoken with, that's just how this car was made, the national speed limit only being 55mph when this car first came out. it's definitely boasting some of the best MPG stats for a 4WD vehicle out there, particularly for such an older car. @NickNakorn i read your webpage intently, especially "the Story / the Plan" section, in which you describe this very drawback as being the only thing these Subarus can't do. thanks much for sharing here, and to everyone else who addressed @Tofutti's inquiry about running it for extended periods of time at 38-4200RPM/55-70mph, which was actually a question i was gonna get to as well, so thanks for putting it out there @tofutti. waiting to hear more back from another mechanic that's a non-dealership professional, and a family friend. might throw down some money on the major stuff that's too much for me to learn/handle at first on my own. but really looking forward to getting more into learning about this car and how to work on it myself. i just need some experience & guidance, not much encouragement needed, @l75eya thanks again everyone, i'll keep checking back! -glen

this is the kinda stuff i really hoped to hear. i can't thank everyone enough who offered their knowledge and advice. i must be running a bad script or something, but i wasn't able to login in and reply to my own thread, kept getting some kind of "expired domain" message, nonetheless, i got all the replies to my initial post and read them earnestly. i think i sorta intentionally left out the year and miles on it in my first post so i could get a broader opinion on my situation. but as CoyotePaws filled you in, it's got 104k and is a '94. i gotta thank him again for helping me get the chance to even see it in the first place. It really gave me a lotta respect for this message board, and after reading all the encouraging replies, i'm more hopeful that i might not have to get something else. With the chance to learn more about doing some of the work myself if i had the right resources, seemingly available mostly via this message board, i optimistic. not quite sure how bad the leaking is, could be seepage, but not really parked anywhere too long or frequently enough to look for spots i'm making. the dealership's mechanics gave me a pretty high estimate, 3K+, to redo all the seals, timing tuned, and the struts (strut mounts are dry-rotted pretty bad, more pics to come). brought it to another dealership mechanic, but not to the dealership, to his house. he's a friend of a friend that has a vintage VW restoration shop that i called and asked if he knew any Subaru guys he could suggest. I'm pretty confident this guy, who echoed most of what the dealership said wasn't seeing any dollar signs in me, he was just doing his friend a favor. He added that if i hadn't mentioned how it was overheating (mostly only on the highway going over 60mph for extended amounts of time, without venting it by running the heat, in which case it cools down significantly) the first time i brought it to a dealership for an all-points inspection, that might be an additional cost of putting in another radiator. he said i might spend a bunch fixing it's current problems and the tranny goes in another 10k miles, and how some mechanics won't work on it or the parts will be more challenging to find. this wasn't what i wanted to hear, but don't like the idea of going against 2 educated appraisals of how it wasn't worth it and i'd be better off getting something else. I did get some help from a family friend who has a long time mechanic everyone who has a car in her family uses, and that she took a used outback w/ 100k miles on it to after buying it and hearing from the dealer it'd cost minimum of 2k to fix and he did it for about $700. that cars now at 200k. i just brought it out to him, he's in Jersey, and left it there today. I let him know everything i know up to this point and my feelings about wanting to keep it now that i managed to get it because i went outta my way to find this specific make and model cause it fit my needs, and how i was willing to put some time and more importantly money into it. i'll hear from him tomorrow, hoping for the best. @l75eya, if you're in hoboken, i'd definitely welcome the opportunity for you to take a look at it. it's in Morristown right now, and the first guy who's house i brought it to, the friend of the friend, he was in Hackettstown, so i've already gone a lot further than Hoboken to get some insight. send me a PM w/ your email address and i'll get in touch. If i do end up having to sell it, you be the first to see it. @NickNakorn and everyone else who offered their thoughts, i'm tremendously grateful for them, thanks much, i'd love to get more into these cars in the midst of such a positive community. i'm already attached to it in a way, and have gone outta my way considerably so far, so going further isn't too tough, considering my other options which i'm hoping to avoid. i'll keep updating when i find out more, thanks again, -Glen

i just bought a 4WD Loyal wagon and after bringing it to a Subaru mechanic, he said it's leaking in a bunch of spots and the whole engine would need to be removed and have all the seals redone. the rear differential is also leaking and seal needs to be replaced. not sure if the engine knocking (it's pretty loud) is due to the engine not having decent seals or if it could be an additional problem, maybe a valve or gasket cover, piston problem, etc. it's also overheating when i take it on the highway or run it above 50mph for any length of time. it tops out at about 65mph/4200rpm and not sure if this is due to the fact that it's just a 3-speed automatic and not meant to go any faster, or if in the shape the engine is in, it's just working way too hard to get to that speed and that's what's causing it to heat up. also, the strut mounts are very worn and need to be replaced (maybe the struts themselves too?). the brakes feel like a router needs to be replaced cause it as i'm braking to a stop, it's rhythmically hesitating, as if one spot is worn, like if i had a bubble in a bike tire and i could feel it every time it went around. when i was looking for a car to buy after selling my last one, i decided i wanted a Loyale cause i really liked the modest look of a wagon body style, but also needed the 4X4 capabilities to buy as special permit to drive onto a beach near where i live. i don't know of any other 4X4 wagons that aren't even older and harder to work on and find parts for. I love the Civic wagovan and similar vehicles i've seen on this forum, but they seem like just as much time, work and money to restore to an everyday drivable car, and i already bought this Loyale which, if nothing else, has a pretty clean body, interior and exterior. just wondering if any Loyale experts and/or fans out there have some words of wisdom for me. i really like many things about this car, and went outta the way to find one as a starter to get running better, make nicer and eventually modify a little to make it a little more off-road worthy, so i planned on spending some money, not a lot, but enough to buy another used car with, and i'm having serious reservations about it becoming a money-pit. before i start putting any money into it, i'd be very grateful to hear your opinions on whether or not to just cut my losses or to hope for the best and start getting this thing running in better shape. thanks much for all your honest advice, Glen

amazing, thanks much

So excited to have gotten a '94 Loyale Wagon that seems to be in great shape. I'm new to Subaru's but have long admired and respected their reputation. Trying to decide on what kind of car to buy after selling my '86 Prelude (not a honda buff, just ended up w/ it) i realized that the old 4WD Loyale Wagons were exactly what i wanted and needed. After a lot of searching the internet, and some serious SERIOUS help from another Subaru enthusiast who came to my rescue (eternal thanks and praises, your unparalleled help with landing this Loyale will never be forgotten, you know who you are! thanks again) i managed to buy a '94 Loyale wagon w/ only 104k miles on it, very little body damage (just some minimal rust and one little dent) I specifically wanted an AUTO trans (i know that's a major no-no, when it comes to you purests out there, my apologies, i just live in NYC where a manual trans is about as fun as eating broken glass and OJ) and this had it. Now that i got it and want it to get it at it's best, i got some questions and was hoping to get some advice from y'all out there, particularly folks who know a lot about Loyales and making them more off-road worthy. Before i can begin to consider any modifications, i need to make sure i'm working w/ something building up, and since this is my first time doing anything like this, really wanted to get a good basis of knowledge and advice first, as far as making sure i got one worth doing anything to more than keeping on the road. First thing i could really use is a local expert, here in NYC, Brooklyn Specifically. Thanks Much, Really Appreciate any and all help. -Glen