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subnz
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Posts posted by subnz
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EJ engines seem to have very little torque on idle in my experience eg need 1200/1500rpm to pull away in 1st gear on the flat without slipping the clutch to avoid stalling on EJ 251 SOHC on my (2nd Gen Outback) and the EJ 251 SOHC is noted to have better mid range torque values than DOHC ( SOHC has a flatter torque curve) (most of torque happening by 3000rpm - pulling stongly @ 2500rpm even though max torque quoted at 4000rpm)
The head design / valve configuration is different between DOHC / SOHC engines. DOHC engine better for top end than SOHC, SOHC better mid range than DOHC, even though actual power/torque quoted for both is not that much of a difference .
EJ engine max torque values range from 2800 to 4500rpm.
Probably the best EJ engine to use is the notorious (internal head gasket failure) earlier versions of EJ25D coz max torque @ 2800rpm
EA82 SOHC (1800) which I have had 2 of was similar to EJ251 pulling away too (max torque @ 3200rpm) in which EJ engines were based on.
Probably the best engine to use is the EA 81 (ohv 1800) ex Brat / 2nd gen Leone
l have one (87 Brat) and its much stronger on idle (torque) than all the previous I've mentioned ie (max torque at 2500rpm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EJ_engine
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Buy an Outback its already done and a lot less hassle
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All this ie changing cam timing, forcing induction, retarding ignition, isn't worth the expense for the small gains? if any? The motors turning over too slowly for any of these things to make that much of a difference.
The design/characteristics of these motors (modern engines) is wrong to modify for torque at idling. engine too short stroking ie square to over square, [bore = stroke to, bore greater than stroke]. this short stroke design is best for high rpm.
Need undersquare engines ie stroke greater than bore ie similar to old school ohv 6 cylinder ford/gm engines pre V8s over 50 years ago. for high torque values at low rpm but not good for rpms ( vibration - self destruction)
Diesels are better because the are under square (stroking engines) also have about twice the compression (compression ignition) of gasoline engines so have stronger power impulses at idle (more torque) are more simple and don't need to be modified the same
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Unlikely because all subaru boxer engines don't have much mass/inertia below 1500/2000rpm (flywheel etc ) for low down torque because cylinders oppositely opposed they are well balanced no need for it. An alternative is to go to a lower diff ratos if you want to go slower over the rough stuff. (and assuming you already have dual/ratio as well)
If you want that sort of idling torque, need to consider a diesel alternative.
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Ken Block Gymkhana 1
Guessing from the amount of smoke coming from the tyres that the DCCD (driver controlled centre diff )
is set with a rear bias ( 65/35 ) in order to help it drift.
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Absolutely nothing feel ashamed (apart from usual oil/filter spark plugs/breaker points air filter etc)
in the 8 years l've had 87 Brat , engine getting tired (only done 130K miles but must have been short running)
uses a quart of oil every 650miles but still runs ok (a project in waiting) otherwise vehicle in good original conditiion.
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Previous 1986 GF (Touring Wagon roof) to 2009
Present: 1987 in original condition
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1
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EA71 / EA81 79 to 84 JDM for Leone 2nd gen.
EA71 / EA82 84 to 93 JDM for Leone 3rd gen. (then since 94 Impreza with EJ engines)
EA71 78 to 81 NZDM for Brat 1st gen. (last of 1st gen in 81 had EA81+MT D/R)
EA81 82 to 94 NZDM for Brat 2nd gen.
Understand that USDM dates a year behind in some cases, and the Brat was discontinued in US in late 80's?
.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Leone
Surely Subaru USA has a database to find out about its (year) history (engine number ) if USDM.
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Was reading another, current thread where they wanted to run a switch to force full-time in a newer model and talked about a FWD fuse? Is my auto 95' not full-time AWD? Is it FWD with the the rear getting power only on traction loss? Noticed up against the firewall, passenger side, a little black cap with "FWD" imprinted. Assumed it was a fuse holder or something and haven't messed with it. What exactly is it? If the AWD isn't full-time, I'd very much like to incorporate a switch to have that option in heavy snow, etc. Can someone explain how I'd remove voltage from the solenoid? Where is the solenoid and the wiring needed spliced to? Much appreciated.
l had wondered why the differences in transmissions to how AWD works so this is explained well in this link
I think I posted this link that previous thread also.
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nice mini-me El Camino
this is my 87 in original condition never had anything done to it (motor tired ie using a quart / 600miles but still runs ok) a project in waiting
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no apologies needed, talking on forums isn't as easy as in person.
doubtful both had the exact same brand, tread depth, and age tires. a FWD with Nokian snow tires could outperform a 4WD with all seasons in certain situations. then there's ground clearance, weight, different parking spots aren't exactly the same...one could be rutted, icy, the other packed snow, more slope, more uneven...etc. maybe that car wasn't in great mechanical condition - high miles, warn clutch packes, there are rear VLSD's...but they can not work well sometimes...i've seen Subaru's get out when another 4WD vehicle coudln't and those are the stories shared on subaru forums...but i've seen the other way around happen too - a Subaru get stuck when it seemingly shouldn't. and there's probably 10 other variables i haven't thought of.
Thanks fair comment, a little off topic now:
Talking of rear LSD's, my sister and brother in law who are farmers had a 2000 Toyota Hilux doublecab 3.0 N/A diesel part time 4WD with rear LSD, it spent most of its life off road on farm in muddy conditions but used like a car on road too. It was amazing how
further it could go in 2wd before having to select 4wd in the mud compared to their previous Hilux 4WD with no rear LSD.
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you repeated everything i said. technical hair splitting aside:
1. a VLSD locks up when the fluid heats up - or *it slips*
2. an auto transmission locks up when sensors tell it - or *it slips*
technicalities and theory discussion add nothing to those two symptoms. they both require slippage to operate. there may be room to discuss which is quicker or Northwet's comment, but they both *require* slippage - or a delay...exactly what the original poster doesn't want. this guy doesn't have an MT anyway and the AT is better since you *can* control "lock up" yourself - with no slippage required.
I want to control when it locks - not have VLSD fluid or electronics do it for me...same as the original poster of this thread.
can't do that with a MT, you can with an AT.
Apologies I shouldn't have got involved in this discusion . because I don't like automatics.
The question I have is that why was I able to drive away ( 01 2.5 OBW MT D/R -no VDC) without spinning my wheels, when the auto legacy (2nd gen mid 90's) wagon parked beside me spun its front wheels for 3 seconds before it moved away before me. This was on a mild slope on packed snow in a skifield car park.(This was a chains on day for 2wds)
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IMO a 96 2.2l was the best older year/model combo very few head gasket problems and its the last year of the phase 1 non interference engines!
non interference = no piston valve collision if timing belt breaks.
edmonds.com reliability reviews have nothing bad to say about those
I bought mine at 250k and I'm over 292k now with minor problems that seem to become major after others muck it up/ give me false information....
Totally agree these were well sort after here in the early 90's here in Legacy GX manual, and Gen1 Outbacks with them, because they were SOHC and people got / are still getting great runs out of them ie 250 - 300K miles + (DOHC risk of valve to valve interference with belt failure as well)
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Sorry, but this is not true. the 1.8, 2.0, and 2.2 engines rarely had headgasket problems, and those that did were caused by careless owners/drivers. The "random" headgasket problems are primarily a 2.5 issue.
Well 2 out the 5 Subarus that I had significant headgasket issues were 1.8s (not noted for H/G issues like the the EJ25D and EJ251)
http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/
http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gaskets-problems-explained-part-ii/
Much to our chagrin - the dual range trannies in the Legacy/Outback generations are not/never were available in the US market. We have not had a dual range since the last of the 80's GLs...
Yeah Its the same here in NZ Back in the 80s pretty much everything was manual and D/R but since Legacies appeared 24 years ago it reversed and manuals D/R are not so common, also command a premium here although available, when l bought my 01 2.5 OBW MT D/R l had a choice of 2 2nd Gen NZDM ( which l prefer) (can also get 2nd hand ex JDM ex Japan which in my opinion is more risky) available in the South Island from "Trade Me" (NZ equivalent to Ebay) Its the most popular buy/sell site for everyone, private and commercial.
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grossgary, on 18 Oct 2013 - 12:33, said:
on older models you simply cut the one power wire to the Duty C solenoid - very simple. install a switch for that one wire. it is an excellent idea, i'm a huge fan and have done it multiple times.
i've heard the same thing - in H6 transmissions the transfer solenoid changes around 03 or 04 to a different operating scope. I think CNY Dave is familiar with it...but not sure if 4 cylinder and 6 change in the same way/same time. but yeah - you'd give it 12 volts all the time if it is indeed reversed in that way. i haven't heard of anyone doing it on a newer transmission yet.
it's not a mechanical 50/50 center diff - it's a viscous center diff so it's an open differential until slip happens, heats up the fluid, and then locks it. Subaru made a 50/50 center diff in FT4WD transmissions with center diff lock in the late 80's/early 90's EA and ER vehicles which I prefer myself. it has been said the VLSD center lock up is fairly fast, i'd like to see some videos or something on that.Yes it is! Manuals have a mechanical viscous centre diff which distrbutes torque 50/50 normally until wheel slippage occurs when the( central diff similar to an LSD) viscous coupling heats up fluid with wheel slippage like you said and directs torque up to 80/20 or 20/80 in which direction its needed. It isn't able to / doesn't completely lock up like the 86/88 RXII AWD Leones (Ea82T) did with an actual central diff lock. (electric/switch)
The std manual doesn't rely on sensors/electronics/ecu to direct torque front / rear , except for manuals with VDC stability control.
Std Autos have a multiplate transfer clutch (electonics/sensors/ecu) instead of a central diff LSD (viscous coupling) in manuals.
and later Autos ie with VDC have both (planetary central diff (VTD) and multiplate transfer clutch)
http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/ -
Nice 1 sorry about the previous essay but am passionate / .like to give benefit of my experience with subarus.
Don't know that much about 3rd gen 04/09 as haven't owned one yet . but this will be my next one.
Yep But just like with buying any car/truck evidence of its service history is better, so not inherit possible problems (developing) with one due to poor service history. Its worthwhile getting/paying someone to help look one over as a 2nd set of eyes may pick up something you miss.
Distance travelled (milage) its not always a guide to mechanical condition. coz a low milage one (short/urban running) engine can be in worse condition than one that has done 2 to 3 times more (country/highway running)
So 60 to 90K or on an 07 is a good call/decision.
All my subarus were 8 to 9 years old with 90K miles when l bought them.
Yep winter tyres on spare rims is the way to go, been doing that for last 15 years
Good luck
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thanks for the bundle of information. A couple of things..
I am looking at 2007- present. Good idea?
I would like to spend less than $10,000 but for a really nice one I would be willing to go to $11,000, ideally with 90,000 or less, so I have plenty of time to enjoy it!!
I used to drive a manual and, for a preference I really don't care. I can concur the gas mileage difference and a manual car doesn't bother me one bit
So your saying find a Subaru with a good service history and look at it closely for issues?
I am thinking about getting another set of tires and rims for the winter. From reading some forums, it would be totally worth it!!!!
Any other suggestions or comments I should take into account or note?
Thanks,
Jotterman
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The easy solution is to get one with a manual transmission ie has mechanical 50/50 torque split (80/20 to 20/80 with wheel slip) so the drive is always there / no delay with electronics deciding what to do ( no electronics unless VDC etc ) also better engine braking on descent.
I have a 01 2.5 MT D/R OBW and l don't think/can't remember if its ever lost traction driving on snow up ski field roads however have had 2 or 3 moments down in the valley over the years on non snow icy curves (black ice on tarmac) where the front has lost contact (nothing major) with the road before putting winter tyres on (on spare rims )
Have seen a few auto awd subarus particulary legacies with spinning front wheels on numerous ocassions guess its the 90/10 setup.
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jotterman, on 16 Oct 2013 - 17:40, said:
jotterman, on 16 Oct 2013 - 17:40, said:
Hey all thanks for the reply,
I do have a couple more questions and comments to ask about though...
However I think I am leaning towards the outback. I believe I would much rather have the space and ground clearance when I need it rather than not when I do. But I'm still not 100% sure. So the questions....
I was understanding that the gas mileage between the legacy and the outback were close, medial difference, 1-2 miles per gallon about 21/29 city/hwy.
Is there a way to put a hitch on the back for a cargo carrier or bike rack. I would put a maximum of 4 bikes on it or a large cooler, a Rubbermaid container and some other things.
Is there a better year to look for than the others? One with less problems (w/ the engine, transmission, head gaskets, etc....) basically what is the best year? and what are the years to steer away from??
Thanks guys,
I look forward to what the answers are and what you have to say...again,
Jotterman
Yep l have a tow ball hitch mounted rack can get them to hold up to 4 mt. bikes but have to remove to open tailgate,
.Can get ones that clip on to the tailgate if car doest have a tow ball hitch. when its just my mt.bike can get it in back with removing wheels (don't have to drop back seats)
or another option is to get roof mounted racks (but no so good for wind resistance)
Outbacks come with roof rails ready for( any type of) rack/s to be clamped on.
Not sure what you mean by cooler / rubbermaid container?
The 1st (95/99) EJ25D (DOHC) and `2nd (00/04) (EJ251) (SOHC) generation 2.5 Outbacks are notorious for headgasket problems (faulty head gaskets) so best to look at 3rd generation from 04/05 on (if you can afford) then otherwise a 2nd Gen thats had headgaskets replaced with modified ones. Also the 2.5 SOHC cam engines are better / simpler - think they continued them thru to 09. (can tell by shape of cam drive covers whether DOHC or SOHC)
The 1st Gen. (EJ25D- DOHC) was worst - had internal headgasket leaks. 2nd Gen. (EJ251-SOHC) leaks were external , so not as bad.
I actually have a 2nd gen 01 2.5 Outback MT D/R and it had quite small external head gasket leak so managed to stop it with an additive (this isn't recommended but wasn't wanting to pull the engine apart) Think a Subaru recommended additive is best/available.
They (headgaskets) tend to leak 1st at the left bottom rear of engine on to engine crossmember (hard to detect) just below where the earth cable from battery is bolted to engine, close to firewall, so worthwhile to have a good look there and around both sides of engine with a light with engine running at temperature.
Also if battery/charging/cables/system is in poor condition ie white deposits on and around battery area/hood - this can electrolyse coolant and make it more corrossive to gaskets and in bad cases scale up / block heater core/radiator which can lead to overheating, blown headgaskets and cracked heads.
All Subaru boxer engines can be prone to head gasket problems particularly if not serviced regularly ie regular oil/filter changes @ 3000 miles and cooling systems flushed /coolant replaced 2 yearly. What happens is that contaminated oil/coolant is always in contact / eats away at gaskets/seals etc. compared to V and upright oriented engines where it partially drains away from head (gaskets)
So it would be best if you can get one with a good service history.
Otherwise all good.
l would suggest a manual dual ratio as lm biased as on my 5th MT D/R Subaru as hate gas guzzling autos, but its personal preferance, suggest if most city/urban (auto), if mostly country (manual). however older tired auto trans up in miles are more expensive to replace than a new clutch (MT)
Yes and fuel consumption difference btwn Outback and Legacy (wagon) is negligable, its not a issue. best my Outbacks done is 30mpg on a 3 to 4hr + run, average 25/26mpg, city 22mpg (on 215x60x16 tyres and running 4.1 diffs) thats good for an AWD 2.5 weighing in at 1500kg (1.5 tons)
Despite all this they are great cars just have to do basic servicing then few/minimal problems.
I'm on my 5th Subaru in 21 years
can't be bothered with anything else. 
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The most basic Outback is in essence a premium Legacy ie Alloy wheels, fog lights, cruise control etc
All AWD Subarus are good in the snow but Outback (AWD) is better because of extra height/ground clearance
(better for if you do go off road too for your outdoor sporting needs)
It makes sense / always useful to have a wagon (ie able to drop the back seats for toys/sporting gear DOG etc ) even if you don't need it most of the time.
Fuel consumption difference between between the 2 is negligable. average is about 25/26mpg for 2.5 engine ( 22city 30 long trips)
The Outback is still a car and drives much better / more comfortable than a truck SUV.
Im single and Im on my 4th Subau wagon (1st Outback) plus Brat (ute).
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Could be worn steering rack although workshop sould have should have picked this up when doing suspension bushes/alignment , because the suspension was worn it may have caused uneven tyre wear which may be still causing the problem.
faulty(out of round) /worn / dissimilar tyre/s , rims, wheelbalancing, wheelbearing/s tyre pressures, dragging brakes maybe?
If it is a "Grade A " shop? it should have checked for all these things.
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The biggest issue is rust with these, look around windscreen ( paint bubbles ) inside door/ frame surrounds inside/around rear tail gate. underbody edges.inside wheel arches, to get a general idea. rust is a lot harder to fix unless skilled or wish to spend the time completely stripping vehicle back to body shell in order to to do a good job. much easier to to fix / replace worn everything else ie engine/drive line etc
Or if get a runing one, engine: check for overheating / blown head gaskets / cracked heads / scaled up radiator/heater core all meaning lack of cooling system maintance ie:
Brown rust coloration / white "scale" discolouration around, inside engine bay /inside radiator/cap (white scale in radiator)
Engine not coming up to temperature / heater not working properly because themostat removed to mask cooling system problems.(heater not working- heater core - bypassed coz blocked,leaking)
Have had two of these - great cars even despite one of them having theSe issues, managed to save it
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Wow dude, let him/her enjoy the cloud before you pop it man lol
The whole reason behind all of that is because the motor in there (if it's original) is a turbocharged EA82 (EA82T)
They are good, reliable engines so long as you keep it stock and you make sure it never, ever over-heats. If it does over-heat it is very prone to head-gasket failure.
So my advice to you would be to go through every component of the cooling system and make sure it is in good shape. Put new radiator hoses, flush the coolant out and add new coolant, put a new water-pump in there, put a new thermostat and make sure the heater core isn't clogged. Keep that cooling system happy and you'll keep the engine happy and you'll never have any of the catastrophic failures that are common to these motors.
Also, it looks like it's in great shape! Get us some shots of the interior and the engine bay!
+1 totally agree
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Great cars because particularly ones of this age for their simpliciy, robustness, running costs etc, have owned an 86 and 88, , were by far the best cars l have ever owned.
Compiling database for Gen2 Brat sales evaluations
in Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales...
Posted · Edited by subnz
I Bought my 87 , (ea81, 4MT, D/R) 7 years ago with 95K miles for NZ$2500 in very good condition (no rust) however motor tired using oil but still running ok even now haven't had to do anything to it apart from the usual plugs/points tyres battery oil filters etc
A rough untidy (modified?) one with some rust will normally go for NZ $1000 or less now depending on how bad/good it is.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/brumby/auction-659943749.htm
A really good (unmodified) original outstanding one , seen go for NZ$5500