pontoontodd

If it's only 4x as expensive as an ADF lift that's cheap! Would like to see some pictures and videos.

Nothing against Subiworks but didn't see any long travel suspension on their facebook page or website. Hotbits and other companies sell long travel struts, TSS fab built a super wide STI (WRX?) with a lot of suspension travel.

I was going to start on tube bumpers for the 2002 Outback but realized I should really get the long travel done first to check tire clearance. Removed the stock front bumper cover and beam. Started on a skid for the oil pan and realized I didn't have enough tubing for mine and my friend's Forester and his needs to be done sooner. Got the front part done though, bolts into the radiator support and in place of the tie down loops. Mounted a transmission cooler in front, didn't have to drill any holes. This is what it looks like with the mounts painted and lines installed. Curious to see how the auto works off road. This is the skid for the Forester so far. It will have a plate between the square tubes on the bottom, the tubes will give it some bending strength and should be a little more ground clearance than what he had before. This is roughly what I'm planning on the 2002 Outback. I also plan to run square tubes from that front beam to the swaybar mounts to brace things and guard the exhaust. I also tried to get the gas tank guard we built for his 2000 Forester on the 2001 and it didn't quite line up. Shouldn't take too much work, we just ran out of time yesterday.

Putting smaller (276mm) front brakes on the 2002 white Outback so I can put 15" wheels on later. Got a 6MT/R180 swap on order for the 99 Outback, should be in Friday.

Couldn't find stock spring rate right off, but 200#/in sounds about right. Rear suspension has about a 2:3 motion ratio, so that's effectively 2*2*200/(3*3)=89#/in at the wheel, which seems low, I think the springs on the struts are usually around 150 stock. You would want to shoot for 150-200 at the wheel, probably closer to 200, more than that and it will start getting harsh. The 450 would be exactly 200 equivalent so it might not be terrible. Another way to look at it is you'll have say 900# sprung weight on each rear tire. 2:3 motion ratio means 1350# at the spring. With no preload a 450#/in spring will compress 3", which is probably more than half the shock travel. With an inch or two of preload you'd probably be sitting about where you want to be. The stock springs are 11" long installed, so you could get a 12" long spring 400-500#/in. I would be tempted to go with a 400#/in 14" long spring to make it a little softer and give you lots of bump travel but it might coil bind. If 3" ID springs would work you can get those for under $100 each, you'd have to measure. Might be able to find something on that Moog chart that would work, in that case they're usually under $50 each.

There is a company called Subiefish that makes adapters to fit Tacoma struts on the rear of a Subaru. They say you get some lift and the Tacoma Bilstein shocks are fairly cheap and are much stronger than the Subaru rear struts. Sounds like you might be able to just use the Subaru top hat and the Tacoma spring and strut.

We parted out my friend's 2000 Forester over the weekend. Took all the body panels, lights, suspension, drivetrain and more out, left most of the interior in. The shell with the interior weighs 1200#. Sunday we pulled all the suspension off his 2001 Forester he drove back from Oregon and put the long travel struts, long front CV axles and tie rods, front control arms, etc on it. We still have to put oil pan and gas tank guards on it but we can probably reuse the guards from his 2000. Still working on long travel parts for my 2001 Outback. Will hopefully have money soon for the STI drivetrain conversion for my 99 Outback, have a plan for replacing the center diff with low range.

Appreciate the brush tip, I may have to look at that on mine. I replaced the blower motor in my 99 Outback when it finally stopped working with one out of a 2002 Outback parts car. It is still working but it seems weak. I am willing to buy a new one, wondering if anyone knows what brand has the best performance, or if any of the blower motors on Rockauto fit. Specifically the VDO blower on Rockauto is twice the price of the rest, I'd be willing to pay it if it pushes a lot more air. Looks like Subaru wants $130 or $143, anyone know the difference between 72210AC150 and 72240AC000?

I've been thinking it would be much easier to just start with an STI than do what I'm doing, you'd have good power and a strong drivetrain without swapping in six cylinders and six speeds. Until recently I have only seen them as low as $8000 and that's with some body damage and a lot of miles. One of my friends who has one was just telling me he has seen them fairly cheap on auction sites with body damage, but we're going to do that regardless. Looks like three have sold in the last two months on ebay for $3000-5000 without significant damage. There are a couple on another auction site right now with 50-100k miles with hail damage and clear titles. So it looks like they're much cheaper than I thought. I would put different struts on it and might have to space the subframes, but that's probably less work than an engine and/or trans swap. Could sell the stock struts if they're decent. Not sure if I could find decent off road tires for 17 or 18" wheels to fit over the brakes. Wouldn't have the interior space we're used to. Thoughts?

Excellent recovery. How long did that take?

Definitely if you're trying to do traditional off roading (slow crawling), a truck or Jeep is the way to go for all the reasons you listed. I wonder how much of our body problems have been due to corrosion and how much of the problem is fatigue. I've never had to fix the body on my Impreza, it is originally from Colorado so it's not super rusty. The same corner of the Forester has come apart twice now, I would think if it was due to insufficient spot welds it would have held after being fully welded. I have had rear shock/strut mount portions of the body come apart on a couple Subarus now and seemed mainly where they were rusty. Points toward corrosion as the main cause. In the next few years we'll find out, we should have a rust free Outback and Forester with long travel by the end of the year. Also, full frame doesn't mean it doesn't break, one of the main problems with the Raptor was that the frame would crack. More easily reinforced than a unibody for sure. Everything fairly stock, Subarus definitely ride better than any truck or Jeep I've been in. We usually go 2-3 times as fast in stock Subarus and I just can't drive at a Jeep pace. Most trails within 1000 miles of my house, even at off road parks, can be driven in a fairly stock Subaru, so I'd rather just do them at a quick pace for more entertainment. I think I really need to get a ride in a decent pre runner or two and see how it compares to what I have now. For say a $10k budget that might be the way to go. Similar vintage Tacomas and Rangers are similar curb weight to our Subarus. Certainly full size trucks are heavier. The stock(ish) Subaru seems to be the way to go on a ~$2000 budget. We have also beaten the crap out of my 96 Impreza, it's amazing where that thing will go and be fairly comfortable doing it. Another big advantage is a few guys can each buy one and have common spares and tools.

Doing something different is more interesting. Really we got into the Subarus since the stock Subarus ride much better off road than fairly stock Jeeps and trucks. With similar money in either for aftermarket suspension, maybe the truck is the way to go, real low range, lockers, bigger tires, etc.

Sorta what I was getting at. Biggest downsides I can see would be the increased height making it harder to fit (rarely) and not corner quite as well. My 99 Outback and 96 Impreza have both been up on two wheels, I can only imagine a pickup would be on its side or roof instead. Also, without making it super wide, a Tacoma with 4WD won't have the suspension travel we have in front because the axles are so short.

We'll be parting out my friend's 2000 Forester in a month or so. Definitely taking the suspension off, probably axles, most likely trans/driveshaft/rear diff. If he gets a replacement with the same body style we'll take off the corner lights and probably fenders and hood. Probably at least the intake if not the whole engine. Anything else we should keep for a spare? Anything else anyone would want from the car? We've also been discussing a long term Subaru substitute. Seems you can get a decent long travel Ranger for $10k or so. Similar money to what we'd have in a Subaru with long travel suspension and an STI trans and rear end. I think the biggest downside would be the increased height not cornering as well and occasionally not fitting under trees. Thoughts? I'm still doing the long travel on the 2002 Outback, possibly a manual swap too, this would be a few years down the road.

First set used .120" wall 4130, never bent or anything but went to .187" wall so we had grind stock for the bushings. Let me know how yours turn out.

I don't know of any stock or aftermarket longer arms for the multilink. Should be easy to make though. In most of the US (including where I live) there are no vehicle safety inspections for passenger cars.

Assuming it's a Subaru 2.5 and five speed trans, I'd just pick up a front CV axle for something like a 99 Outback, Forester, or Impreza. ABS rings are about all that changed on the EJ axles and you probably don't care. This might provide a lot more confusion than help: http://goworldparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Worldparts-CV-Axles_Quick-Specs_May-20151.pdf If you can use a standard Subaru EJ front axle, these seem to hold up well and have more plunge travel than most: http://autoshafts.com/i-23374251-cv-axle-shaft.html

Hopefully they could be about an inch longer while still using the stock trailing arms and CV axles. Something to measure later. The top link is short, an extra inch on that would go a long ways.

I figured out why the Outback wipers were catching. One of the links was rubbing on the sheet metal cowl behind the wiper motor. There was a plastic clip in the middle of that the link was catching on. I popped that out and the link was still rubbing on the sheet metal. I tried prying the sheet metal up with much success but did pop the link off the wiper motor, which is a real pain to get back on. While doing that I noticed the cowl on the driver's side was cracked. I took the driver's side fender off because the wiper hose had fallen down and I wanted to bend the bottom of the fender away from the tire. When I took it off I discovered the sheet metal was completely separated again where I had seam welded it. We were able to use the come along from the door hinges to the front bumper to mostly close the gap and I welded it completely top to bottom this time and in a bunch of other spots and hit it with some spray paint. The next day I took the battery out of the 1999 Outback to replace the #2 coil pack and spark plug. Before I got to those I noticed the fuel injector plug looked a little loose. I plugged it in a few times and it only occasionally latched. I plugged it in a bunch more times to clean off any corrosion on the pins and made sure it was latched. Put the battery back in and it runs great now. I probably didn't get that plugged in all the way when I did the valve cover gaskets a month ago and then it came loose while we were trail riding. I cleaned out the back seat area so I could put down a piece of insulation above the muffler since a garbage bag I'd put back there melted to my backpack last weekend. While I was doing that I noticed the seat belt buckle was melted to the floor. Got that all cleaned up and cut a piece of 2” foam aluminum backed insulation to sit above the muffler. Checked the rear diff fluid, rear wheel bearings and brake pads on the 1999 Outback. I had checked the air filter on the Impreza and it was a little dusty but had no mud on it this time so the new intake seems like an improvement. I also figured out the AC fuse was blown, it was only 10A so I put in a 15A. That seems to power all the AC relays in the fusebox. So the fan is back to running with the ignition on, I cleaned up that wiring a little too. My friend got the hood prop working, it's been sitting in the back of the car for about six years. He also got the brake light and wiper on the hatch working, I'm not sure if those have ever worked since I bought the car. Looks like someone had swapped the hatch and just cut and spliced the wires rather than trying to find the harness plug. Most of the wires were broken or almost broken. The Impreza might be in better shape now than it was at the start of the year. Then we did some mock up on the 2001 Outback rear suspension. Looks like I need a longer shock shaft and body and a drop bracket for the bottom shock mount, then we can get about 12” of travel. While I'm at it I'm going to put 7/8” shock shafts, glands, and bigger bearing ends on the shocks. The smaller bearings seem to wear out fast. I might just get new shocks and sell these old ones rather than replacing 75% of the parts and having a pile of parts that are not worth much. Limitation in bump is something binding and the bump plate on the arm almost hitting the one on the frame (stock bump stop removed). Limitation in droop is the upper link hitting the subframe. Eventually, especially if the stock links don't hold up, we may make longer lateral links for more travel and a little wider track. Dug around for springs but the only ones I have that are long enough are too soft for the multilink.

I would probably keep it stock at first. The H6 has the air filter mounted in front of the wheel well like the MAF EJ cars. With the MAF EJ cars the filter gets wet and kills the engine but it's far enough from the throttle that not much gets in the engine. Just replace the filter and start it back up. Eventually I would probably put in a centrifugal filter like the one I have now from a Chevy van. Your car has the filter by the throttle, right? It seems like with that design when the filter gets wet water gets in the engine. You should definitely make up some kind of snorkel.

There is only one place I know of in Michigan where you can drive on the beach. The beach there is tailings (gravel left over from mining). It's already polluted so you can drive on it. You can't drive on the beach in Michigan anywhere else I've been. You're not even supposed to drive through rivers or streams up there and you rarely see stream crossings on trails even though there are a lot of rivers and streams. You can drive on the beach along the ocean in the US in some places.

Six of us drove up to Manistique on Saturday and found a motel where we could leave a couple cars for a few days. Wipers on the Outback were acting up, they would stick about halfway on the downstroke. Usually vibration or bumps would keep them going but not always. Even flipped up the wiper arms and it would still catch, possibly something in the linkage. We started trail riding in three Subarus around 2PM EST. After some hours of trail riding in the rain the Outback started misfiring occasionally, usually just at idle or low load/RPM. Generally headed east and wound up at I74 north of St. Ignace. Sault Ste Marie seemed cheaper to stay in than St Ignace and was in the direction we wanted to head so we went up there. They had a 350th anniversary celebration that weekend so it took us a while to find a couple rooms. Sunday morning we headed east a ways and got back on the trails. The first trails we hit were excellent just west of Bay Mills. We headed up to Mission Hill and hiked the last mile or so to the top. Not a very good view, fire tower is gone. At one point the Impreza got slightly stuck in the soft sand but with a few of us pushing he drove right out of it. We walked around a bit to make sure we didn't get ourselves stuck and found the top of a very steep and tall hillclimb. We could see down at least 100' from the top and there was a jog in the trail. When we got to the bottom we found the start of the hillclimb and could see up about 100' to a jog. According to the topo map it's 200-250' tall. Probably the tallest steepest hillclimb I've ever seen anywhere. J decided to see what the Outback could do. I was mainly worried about sliding off the side on the way back down but he assured me we'd be fine. We made it up farther than I thought we would and came back down in a controlled fashion. We made our way to the opposite end of the trail R swamped his Forester on last year to find that it was graded and bone dry. Then we took a long west/north/east loop up to Whitefish point. Picture is a few miles west of Whitefish point along Lake Superior. Near the end we were on a very soft sandy trail near the lake and B got the Forester stuck. We were able to push him a little ways until he had momentum and drove the rest of the trail. Fortunately J had driven the Impreza off to the side to a firm spot and he was able to get a decent run and drive the trail without any issues. We stopped at Whitefish point for a little while to check it out, not the greatest view without going up in the lighthouse which we didn't want to spend the time and money on. We tried to take a fairly direct route to the bluff we found along lake Superior a couple years ago. Then we took the main gravel road to the lodge and made chicken tacos. The owner stopped by in the morning and told us not to go on the east/west snowmobile trail just south of the lodge. Some couple from California had flown into Chicago, bought a new car, and drove it up to the UP. Their GPS told them to take the snowmobile trail from Tacquamenon Falls to Pictured Rocks (~70 miles). It eventually turns to two tire tracks with grass in the middle but they kept going. They came to a spot with a curve full of standing water. It's 150' long standing water that they couldn't see the other end of but they drove into it and got the car stuck. The car had 1300 miles on it at that point. So the family of four with their dog continued west on foot in the dark for six miles to highway 77 and flagged down a truck. He took them to a spot where they could get cell reception and a simple recovery was tried but they didn't have enough strap/rope/chain to reach 150' to the other end of the water. They got a ride to the nearest motel. The next day they had UP recovery extract it and tow it to the nearest town for $2200. First thing we did Monday morning was head to the pond we swamped the Impreza in a month ago. We drove the trail leading to it with R in the lead in the Forester, me following in the Outback with cameras on both cars. Near the end there are a few groups of 4-5 dips/jumps that we were hitting much faster than the last time through. On one of the last ones R was several feet in the air sideways but saved it. They said it didn't seem bad in the car but I thought they might wind up in the trees. That separated his LR wheel well / strut tower again so we did the spare tire/2x6 fix again. We got to the pond to find it completely dry. There was a pit in the middle, if C had gone to one side or the other he probably would have been able to drive through. Then we headed southwest to the Driggs river road. The northern section is narrow and winding and fairly entertaining if you're not worrying about oncoming traffic. We stopped and ate lunch at one of the clearings along the river. When we got to the southern section of the road they had graded all the jumps out of it. Then we headed over to Pictured Rocks and stopped in Munising for gas. Next we headed south to the super whoops near Rapid River. Our friends drove my Outback and the Forester, R and I followed in the Impreza since we'd done the super whoops before a few times with long travel and R hadn't driven the Impreza yet this year. They quickly disappeared. Then we drove to Jack's restaurant to have dinner. Near there were a cool metal sculpture shop and snowmobile museum that were both closed. We headed east on 2 and stopped at the big spring. It has been so dry up there the spring was barely flowing but it's still cool to see with the deep clear water and big fish. We drove back to Manistique. A few of our friends started back home and we stayed at the motel for the night. Tuesday morning we did a big loop to the north and hit a few small jumps. Outback misfired most of the way home but didn't run hot. Kept getting a misfire cylinder #2 code and torque converter clutch code. Stopped north of Milwaukee, ate at a Mexican restaurant, and filled up with gas. Outback took 18 gallons despite reading half full. Forester took a total of nine quarts of oil by that point in the weekend. Between the engine, body, and gas tank starting to leak it's definitely time to part it out and start with a rust free car. Overall a great weekend, probably 500 miles of trail riding. No major breakdowns and only got stuck about a half dozen times and never for long.

I could see the lift wearing some things out faster but not the rack and pinion gears. If you have the car off the ground can you move the end of the rack up and down? Mine was loose in the bushings and I replaced it to be safe. My advice if you're going through the work of removing it, find a good used one to put in, preferably one that doesn't have rusty lines on it. On that note, the first thing to try would be to make sure you can disconnect the lines above the crossmember on the passenger side. If you can't do that don't bother. Also start soaking the rack bolts and u-joint bolts with liquid wrench or some kind of penetrant now. I think driving on rough roads will wear it out much faster than normal driving regardless of your lift or swaybars. It has been in the car for 17 years, right?

These are almost identical to what I built for the other two cars. They seem to hold up well, we've never bent or cracked one. They move the spindle about an inch forward and an inch out on each side for more wheel travel and better tire clearance.

One arm fully welded, another one tack welded in the jig. Front suspension will be about the same as the first two sets. Going to make a few minor changes which should make things a little stronger. In the rear I need to take more measurements. I think I'm going to just get longer shafts and bodies for the shocks before I even put them on and try to get 13-14" of wheel travel. I really should replace the head gaskets in that car before I take it off road so that's probably a winter project.