pontoontodd

1)They claimed it was a Subaru wheel torqued to spec. They did say it was bent from a previous run. 2)You're right, but if understeer on dirt causes a wheel to fail they're never going to live while beating on them off road.

video from our trip to Kentucky: still interested in any advice on my wet electrical issue

Most of the offroading around here you'd probably consider closer to rally than wheeling. FWIW, I measured the Forester steelies at .20" thick! The steel wheels on my 96 Impreza are .16" thick, I think the aftermarket one I got when I bent one of the stockers is .18" thick. I think the Forester wheels might just be a weaker design though due to the "spokes" and they're pretty flat, so I'm going to try a couple normal steelies and alloys and see what happens. None of them are expensive, I'd just like something that will hold up. While we're on the topic, I just bent my first strut, what other stock suspension pieces should I beef up or have spares?

So I've now bent four steel Forester 15" wheels on my 99 OB. They are $20 each and offset a bit farther from the struts than most Subaru wheels. I've considered trying alloy wheels but the rally guys say they're stiffer so you just start bending suspension parts instead of wheels. Plus I am afraid they will break instead of bending. I also considered trying other Subaru steel wheels and then I saw this video: What do you guys run and what seems to hold up the best?

We drove 600 miles to Rush Off Road in Kentucky this weekend. Many more, steeper, and taller hills than we have around here. If we did a lot of those types of trails I could see why you all want low range t-cases. I'll put up some video and pictures soon. We bent three Forester steel wheels. Would I be better off with alloys? Are other 15" steel wheels stronger? Also, the Outback still runs rough when the engine gets wet. It doesn't throw any trouble codes anymore and it runs well above 3000RPM and usually dries out in 5-10 minutes but it's a big pain. Any ideas?

I removed the spindle/hub and took it to a friend's shop who did the pressing. It was very difficult to get the bearing out of the spindle, so maybe that's bad. I am trying to get some replacement spindle/hub assemblies, for spares if for no other reason. For what it's worth he's worked on a lot of Subarus and says they basically always just get looser and looser until they're undriveable. Yes, I tightened the spindle nut with the wheel on the ground, didn't realize I shouldn't do that at the time. Thanks for that advice though. It was torqued to spec and didn't loosen. Yes, I'm sure it's the same one. I plan on replacing the hub (since I can get a new one pretty cheap) and wheel bearing and see how it goes and try to find a good assembly in the meantime. In the long run I plan on seeing if there's some larger or higher capacity bearing that could be made to fit, even if it required machining the hub.

I tried the dual parking brake handle setup with disappointing results. I think the rear parking drums are just too small to work as turning brakes. Still considering hydraulic turning brakes. Also tied the front bumper into lower radiator support, boxed in the tow bar points, and painted it. Now that I've taken it off road a few more times, I'm really happy with the 1.5" lift. It makes far more difference than I expected it would. I would do it rather than getting mud tires if I had to choose. It does well off road with the bumper covers on and all season tires now.

I have one front wheel bearing going out on both of my cars and have a couple questions for those with more experience on here: Should I get a new hub from Rockauto (Dorman for $24)? One of the bearings that is loose and noisy again was just replaced a couple thousand miles ago. How do they normally fail? They obviously get loose, which causes some wandering and brake pad wear, and squeak occasionally. Do they just get so sloppy as to be undriveable? Do they suddenly lock up solid? Do they eventually make a ton of noise? Just curious, I'm sure someone out there has driven on a bad wheel bearing without noticing until something really bad happens.

All cars are five speeds. I saw them drive the 98 Legacy without a rear driveshaft, diff, etc with my own eyes. They work on Subarus a lot and said they've done that before. That car and my 96 Impreza have a significant amount of drag, say 10ft-lbs, to turn the rear driveshaft, while my 99 Leg OB spins freely.

Got the car up on a lift and my mechanic friend told me it was definitely the rear pinion bearing. Long story short, I wound up using an older ('90?) diff I've had laying around forever because it has 4.11 gears. I knew the side gears were different so I swapped those out. Two things I didn't know and have never seen online, the idler gears and pinion flanges are also different: Older gears are on the left, one piece. Newer on the right with a separate washer. Seem to be the same size as the old ones with the washer but gear teeth are smaller since they are two piece: I wound up using the older style ones since they seemed to have less play when assembled, plus the teeth are bigger. More importantly, the pinion flanges have a different bolt pattern and pilot diameter, so I had to swap those (figured this out once the diff was in the car unfortunately). Again, older style pinion flange on the left, newer on the right: The car is nice and quiet now. I can actually hear some wind and tire noise. I also tightened up the rear parking drum adjusters so the parking brake actually works now. It's so weak I doubt it would work well as a cutting brake though unless I change the leverage on the handles. I have another question which I couldn't find the answer to online. Is there some kind of test for the viscous center diffs? I know they occasionally fail and lock up, do they ever fail and act as an open diff? In my Outback I can easily turn the rear driveshaft with the rear wheels off the ground. The Legacy I pulled a diff (which turned out to be a 3.90) and various other parts out of had a lot of resistance. With a wrench on the bolts you could turn it but it was far more drag than mine. After we pulled the rear diff, driveshaft, axles, etc out of the car one of the guys there hops in and drives it out of the shop, no signs of slippage or anything. I didn't think that was possible with the viscous center. Are there different center diffs? Is there some amount of torque it should take to turn the rear driveshaft?

Another good long travel fabricated suspension build that's got me thinking: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/121735-wagonstien-taking-fully-independent-suspension-to-the-next-level/

I know this is an ancient thread, but does anyone have any pictures or video of this? Can I buy a DVD?

Is the 92- oil pan lower capacity? Do you have to use the older pickup tube also? Thanks for the tip on the water pump, wish I'd known that when I did the timing belt on the Impreza.

Now we're talking! Any more pix/build thread/travel #'s?

In case you haven't seen these threads: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/142535-macpherson-strut-to-top-wishbone-conversion/ http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/101895-long-travel-subaru/

I think bump travel would be limited by tire/wheel wheel clearance but these axles might allow more droop travel: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144952-has-any-one-else-seen-this/

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. It's good to hear what your experiences actually are with lifts, welded diffs, etc rather than the usual "it should do this." We were actually just discussing that last night. I would probably use it more as a turning brake on a buggy, but it would be helpful if one rear was up in the air. The Outback definitely does not oversteer like my Impreza so it'd help get around turns. Like anything else, it's been done: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/61-general-discussions/7408-redneck-traction-control-tm.html There are various suggestions of making it push/pull or left/right rather than twin stick but I think it'd do it the way he did but handles farther apart. It also looked to me like 1.5" was all the Outback would take in the rear without binding at full droop. You are right about most Jeep and truck guys. First, they usually don't ride as well as a Subaru so they tend to go slower. Second, like you say, you have to use momentum in a mostly stock Subaru where they can creep. We have been on a trail ride with some Jeeps that was painful. It took about 2 hours to cover what would normally take us 20-30 minutes. We basically had to start and stop a lot in order to hit things with speed and not burn up the clutch. I think there are two different approaches. One is to turn the Subaru into a Jeep with a big lift, tires, low range, welded diff, maybe even solid rear axle. That is cool, don't get me wrong. Maybe out west it is the only way to go. Here in the midwest there just aren't that many trails covered in giant rocks like Dusy Ershim. My philosophy is to just go faster. It's more fun and you get to see a lot more in a given amount of time. Most of the trails around here you're more limited by the ride quality at speed holding you back, or maybe concern for denting a wheel. I've been thinking more along the lines of a long travel suspension. I have an off road racing background and could design and build the parts, I just have to see how much travel we could really get out of a Subaru, if we could get decent geometry, and whether it's worth the time and money. One of my friends who has a lot of rally/off road experience and I were discussing it last night and our thought is: Throw away the struts. Mount an upper control arm to the subframe mount. The balljoint axis at the outer end of this arm would be oriented front-back to allow max vertical travel. The cutting brakes would help make up for the limited steering angle. Bolt a mount for that balljoint where the strut would go on the top of the spindle. Upper shock mount would be where the strut normally mounts to the body, it could even go up through the strut hole some if needed. Easier to get at the shock bolt that way too. Lower shock mount probably on the upper arm. I think if you even increased from the stock travel of 7" (??) to 10" with well tuned shocks and springs, you could really eat up some terrain. Again, of course it's been done before, this is ROUGHLY the concept: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/142535-macpherson-strut-to-top-wishbone-conversion/ As this thread points out, you could possibly have some kind of pivoting rear subframe for more articulation or just go to a solid rear axle: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/101895-long-travel-subaru/ I've also got an idea for easily adjustable ride height.

Any idea how much suspension lift is safe for a 99 OB? I've got 1.5" strut lift now with the intention of removing it if I start going through CVs this summer. How streetable is the welded diff?

First, let me say that I'm a big fan of spools/welded diffs and lifted subes with big tires look cool and perform well off road. Where is the point that you start breaking rear axles, gears, etc? There really aren't a lot of extreme trails in the midwest, even at offroad parks. As you can see in the videos, we've only gotten stuck in soft mud a few times. When we've been high centered it's an easy matter of pushing the car off. How much of a lift/bigger tires would I need to get through deep/soft mud? I can see the rear LSD/spool helping in those situations. Also, we usually drive these cars hundreds of miles to get to where we're off roading, so I don't want to make the on road handling terrible or wear out tires and CVs every year. The welded rear might not be too bad since the outback is mainly either driven on highways or offroad, not a lot of city driving. I know it's always a compromise, just trying to find out what you think the best compromise is.

Front or rear? How do the stock axles usually fail (torn boots, clicking)?

Or just leave the small end unstrapped, especially if you don't spend a lot of time in deep water.

We're just driving on old logging roads that don't get used often enough to stay clear of brush, not blazing new trails.

So, here's the real reason for posting. Where should I go with this car? More lift? Bigger tires? Welded/LSD rear? Low range box? I would like more capability but really don't want to sacrifice reliability. This forum is a bad influence. Also, if you want to throw out advice it might help me solve some problems I still have: When the engine gets wet, like going through deep water or pressure washing it, it runs very rough for 5-20 minutes. The check engine light never comes on so I assume it's burned out. I've tried lightly spraying water on it in the dark and it seemed like the driver's side plug wires were arcing to the head so I replaced those. Didn't solve the problem, got the codes scanned at the parts store, they sad bad crank and cam sensors. Replaced those, still runs rough when wet. Here's the really weird part. When driving in the rain, it runs fine until it gets up to temp. Then it will stall. You can restart it but it runs rough indefinitely. As soon as you shut it off and restart it, it runs fine for the rest of the drive. What is the best code reader for these cars? Should I check something else? Once it warms up a bit more here I will go back to dumping water on it in my driveway to try to narrow down the source of the problem. There is a horrible whining noise which has steadily gotten worse since I bought the car. When I bought it the noise sounded like the rear end whining and the previous owner made some mention of replacing it. The noise is now so loud you can't tell where it's coming from. It is worst when cruising at a steady speed. Under load (acceleration or engine braking) it goes away. Plan on getting it off the ground and running it soon to try to figure out where it's coming from.

Then I made a 1.5" lift kit, it seemed like that's about all the stock suspension would do without binding. Took it out in the snow recently:

I knew the LR wheelwell was bad, didn't know it was this bad until I pulled out the carpeting. There must have been a 3/4" gap most of the way around the wheelwell/strut tower. I'd consider adding a rear strut tower brace to these cars before a front brace. Tried to get it down to bare steel and pushed it back in place with a bottle jack: