pontoontodd
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Posts posted by pontoontodd
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On 11/10/2022 at 8:12 AM, travelvw said:
Love the aluminum spacers.
I'm clarifying my original question: I did say top of the fenders, but I did not mean to imply the top of the fender well, but the perimeter of the fender lip. You have 1.5" subframe spacers to fit your suspension with 215/75R15 on factory wheels, while staying just inside the fenders (a perfect fit). I will be running 235/75R15 with my custom wheel offset, which would put the tire tread well up into the fender lips with just 1.5" spacers. I do not want to cut into the fenders, if possible (especially in the rear, which will open up a body cavity I would otherwise have to stitch back together). So, I am asking how far past the rear fender lip your tire tread is at full bump (looks like 1.25" to 1.5")? With that reference, I will have an idea of what size spacers I need to make to clear the rear fender lip with my tires. It'll be something like 3"-4" subframe and 1.5"-2.5" for the strut tops. This might be a useful reference for Slammo too, even if he chooses to cut. Text me if you need further clarification. Thanks,
K
Portals would solve all of these problems...
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On 11/5/2022 at 8:06 AM, el_freddo said:
Why the focus on the bullet rear knuckles? Trying to reduce unsprung weight to help compensate for the heavier tyres?
If you’re concerned with any of the captive nuts I’d be welding a flat bar of steel over them (with matching holes to the captive nuts of course!) to help distribute any loading further out from around the nuts. It’s worked well on my L series where we added this to the firewall captive nuts and a couple on the rear subframe mounts too.
Stitch welding is worth the effort too. An old mate of mine said to just weld the entire section instead of doing the stitch method. His theory was if we’re to crack you’re doing someone very wrong as the whole weld “method” would be stronger than stitch welding. I already did the stitch welding so didn’t bother going back to “fix” it up. I’d love to have done the windscreen seams too but I wasn’t busting that out at that point in time so it remains untouched atm.
Cheers
Bennie
No the billet knuckles will certainly be heavier. Probably been a bit since I posted about those but the advantages should be:
bolt on wheel bearings, same as 05-15(?) Legacy/Outback front - hopefully more durable and much easier to replace in the field
this will allow us to use front axles in the rear also (almost done making rear diff stub adapters for both R160 and R180 to use female front axles) - stronger, more plunge and angle capacity, and will allow us to carry one spare axle instead of two or three
same rotors as front for more rear braking power which should help backing down loose hills and improve steering brake action, also the stock mini drum parking brakes have never impressed me, hopefully these work better
captive nuts and stitch welding - that'd be great given unlimited time but honestly we haven't had any problems with the bodies of our rust free Subarus coming apart yet. Guess we'll find out.
On 11/5/2022 at 9:54 AM, Numbchux said:This is SOP when building a rally car. THICK steel plate on the top of all 4 struts, and tied into the cage.
See above and below but again haven't blown the _tops_ of the strut towers out on any of these cars, even my black Outback which has been through many desert races now. We've hit some things HARD in that car but maybe not as many times as a stage rally car does in years of use. Haven't blown out any strut towers on rust free Subarus. I'm guessing stage rally cars have much stiffer suspension than our cars, that's gotta be a lot harder on the bodies. You can honestly barely feel landing off jumps in these cars when the jump and suspension are set up right.
On 11/5/2022 at 1:12 PM, travelvw said:Nice progress!! Pretty clear from these pics that anything over 215/75R15 is going to require more lift and/or a lot of cutting, particularly in the rear. I also have slightly decreased backspacing in my wheels to clear the strut perch for 235's (so I hope), which will push the tires out. I would rather not cut into the top of the fenders... will you measure how far under the rear fender lip, the top of the tire tread is? Looks like 1 1/4" or so, which means I'll need at least 2" more lift. I realize first gen is different than bugeye/hawkeye, but it would be a decent reference point.
K
Yeah, front fenders shouldn't be too bad for you to just bend out.
Rear will definitely be a project for you. If it was anyone else I'd really try to discourage you from going down that path since it's not just cutting out the fenders, you're really cutting into the structure after the first inch or so and will have big gaps to patch back together so they seal and don't come apart.
On both ends if it wasn't for the fender lips just eyeballing I'd say we have another 2"+ of clearance to the wheel wells at least in most areas.
Front of the rear wheel wells will probably be another project for you unless you make longer trailing arms. The 215/75/15s already rub badly there near full droop and that's with worn tires. Some hammering will probably solve my problem but again you might have to cut into some structure to make yours fit.
On with the Impreza build:
Some of this is Subaru lifting 101 but might as well include it.
Below are rear subframe brackets (in front of trailing arms). Near is Impreza/Legacy/Forester, far is Outback.
Left is Outback, right is standard washer for the top of the rear subframe in the same spot.
Those stock spacers are solid steel and kinda heavy (3/4#) and also fairly small diameter. I have bent one of the long bolts that go up through those into the body before. Probably bent the body, hopefully this larger diameter spacer helps with that. Will probably make some kind of better bracket too.
Aluminum spacers only weigh 1/2# and are almost twice the diameter at the base.
B made up 1.5" tall spacers for the trailing arms and auto trans. Told him to just make them simple since they hopefully won't be in long. Plates in lower right will go under front subframe, I made those many months ago.
B measured some options including flipping the hanger bearing and making 1.5" tall spacers for it was the best option to keep the driveshaft sections and trans the most parallel.
Next up had to modify the strut towers to fit the later style rear strut tops.
Added hole, slotted others, opened up center hole, cleaned out caulk and paint for welding.
Made 1/8" 4130 plates to weld on. Should have bought some to try.
I think most people cut these back farther so they also weld to the stock strut tower cap but these are at least somewhat burned into that, also seemed redundant since it's mostly in compression.
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21 hours ago, slammo said:
I've heard that you can flip the driveshaft carrier bearing upside down to compensate but I haven't tried it.
Are you going to sleeve the chassis where the subframe bolts go, in addition to sleeving the spacers? Any other preventive tactics to address the infamous captive nut issues?
Will have to look at flipping the carrier bearing, that'd be easy. Haven't removed the heat shield yet.
The body is already sleeved for the standard front subframe bolts/studs (I don't think my Outback was stock). The middle one isn't though, yes I plan on sleeving that.
I think all the captive nut issues we've ever had have been on my rusty old 99 Outback. That said, the rear trailing arm mounts should probably be reinforced. On a couple other cars we've sleeved the body and added a thicker plate on the top of the floor and run longer bolts through which seems to last.
Ideally I'd make a rear roll hoop attached to the strut tops. Tie that down and forward to the top of the trailing arm mounts (and somehow keep the rear seat). Tie it down and rearward to the top of the "frame rails" and mount the spare tire to one side. But that might have to wait a while. Gotta focus on the long travel. Then EZ36 and 6MT/R180. Then front bumper and skidplates. Not to mention billet rear knuckles.
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On 11/1/2022 at 8:10 AM, slammo said:
Nice progress!
That trip was a blast, thanks for having me along.
Reinforcing the strut tower tops and converting the GC to GD size is relatively common: https://rally.build/products/subaru-impreza-gc-weld-on-strut-top-reinforcement I like the principal of these being cut to shape and welded to the adjacent sheet metal, should help strengthen a little more.
IIRC the center hole has to be opened up for normal GD struts too.
Thanks, I'd buy those but they're not 4130 and don't know if they'd fit a wagon. Thanks for the other links, looks like just torching/scraping the caulk out around the top of the strut tower makes it easy to weld them in, plan on doing that.
Front subframe spacer installed. "Frame rail" bends down on either end so this is as long as I could make it flat, should be better than the Subaru spacers. Going to use three bolts, the center hole is already there in the body and the subframe.
Can't make the rears quite as long due to the gas tank (and filler on the passenger side). Threaded hole in the middle in the body lines up with the hole in the subframe so plan on using three bolts per side here too. Will cap the ends and sleeve the bolt holes before painting to keep them from crushing and getting full of debris.
Rear at full droop now.
Full bump.
Need to space down the front of the rear subframe and space down the trailing arm brackets or swap them out with Outback brackets. Had the bolts backed out for mockup so the suspension wouldn't bind.
Is it customary to also space down the driveshaft hanger bearing and trans crossmember? Planning on it but wasn't sure.
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On 10/29/2022 at 7:22 AM, el_freddo said:
G’day Todd,
You always have the most epic adventures, thanks for continuing to share! This last one looks like the most scenic one yet!!
With the impreza build, are you ditching the rear drums for discs? Over here anything EJ had discs all round in AWD spec and rear drums only on the 2wd models.
I’m looking forward to seeing this build completed. Those (very few!) over here that have dropped a H6 into an impreza love it from what I’ve heard, so it should be good at your end too! My mate with his H6 SF forester loves it and always drives it like he stole it.
While you’ve got the impreza apart it could be a good idea to box the swing arm mount points to stop them moving. Old mate with the SF ripped one side of his out when he was in the middle of nowhere!
Keep up the good work and all the pics!
Cheers
Bennie
Are you getting notification emails when I post on the thread? Just wondering because slammo and I haven't been all year.
Glad you enjoyed the pictures. It was a good trip. Most of the trails themselves weren't exceptional but I agree, probably the most scenic off road trip we've done. You really can't go wrong off roading in Utah.
Interesting on the drums/discs. I think all the base model Foresters and Imprezas here had rear drums. And all Subarus have been AWD since 1997 in the US (except the BRZ I guess). Eventually it'll get the billet rear knuckles with big rear discs. Maybe not too eventually, I might get those made before this all goes back together.
My black Outback with the EZ30 and 6MT is pretty fun, my white Outback with EZ30 is fun even with the 4EAT. Definitely looking forward to the EZ36 and 6MT in a lighter car.
Are you talking about the rear trailing arm brackets? I did rip one of those out of my Outback but it was super rusty. Good point, we have run longer bolts up through the floor and welded a plate to the top on a few of these cars now. I'd really like to tie that into the strut towers and tie those together along with a spare tire mount but I think that will all have to wait.
On to the long travel progress. After removing the front suspension, I disconnected the pitch stopper and unbolted the bracket that holds the AC line there. Removed the front subframe nuts and lowered it a few inches.
Then I noticed the upper radiator hose seemed to have a lot of tension on it. I don't think it was holding the engine up but I slid both ends about halfway off the necks and retightened the hose clamps. Would a Forester or Outback upper hose be a little longer?
Will have to post pictures later but made some 1.5" x 2" subframe spacers and bolted them in.
B and I cycled the front suspension, seems like it's going to work.
Front bumper cover will have to be removed. I could just trim it but it's coming off eventually anyhow. Tire is worn but really only hits the outer lip of the front fender and that's with the bumpstop removed. Couple inches of space in general between tire and wheel well. This was the main thing I was concerned about since the Impreza had smaller tires stock than the Outback and Forester, but seems to have similar wheel wells.
Next step we were trying to figure out if subframe spacers were needed in the rear. We've measured about half a dozen EJ Subaru bodies now and they all seem to be the same from the strut mount to the subframe mount, front and rear. First gen Impreza, second gen Impreza (STI), second gen Legacy (Outback), first and second gen Foresters.
Front measures about 15.75" (lip/flange in the picture hangs below where the subframe actually mounts). Outbacks/Foresters have ~1.25" tall cast iron subframe spacers there, Impreza has nothing.
Rear of all the cars measures about 18". Only the Outback (second gen Legacy based) has subframe spacers in the rear, also about 1.25" thick. Both here at the crossmember and at either end of the diff mount (front of the rear subframe). Outback also has dogleg brackets for the front of the rear subframe and taller trailing arm brackets. Will try to remember to get side by side pictures to update. A little surprised the Foresters don't have any of those taller parts. Those subframe spacers don't really lift the car at all, they essentially lower the subframe and reduce the angles on the links and CVs. We've been running the long travel on a first and second gen Forester without any rear subframe spacers but it does limit the droop a bit and makes installing the struts more difficult. I plan on adding subframe, trans, driveshaft, etc spacers to the Impreza. The other issue we ran into was the rear top mounts. I had read it's a slightly different bolt pattern so I fixed that.
Then I realized our top mounts won't fit through that hole in the Impreza body.
Per B's suggestion, I dug out an old one and notched the tabs and ground down a bolt to fit so we could check other things.
I think I'll wind up opening up those holes in the body and welding a triangle of 1/8" 4130 over the top to make up for it.
Didn't take pictures but similar story with tire clearance in the rear. Hits the lower front corner of the wheel well and the top outer edge of the rear fender but decent clearance to most of the wheel well, so again seems similar to the Outback.
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Had a dented/cracked rim from the trip out west. Got that wheel swapped out and some other tire beads sealed and valve stems replaced.
Before I started on the Impreza I weighed it, full tank of gas but nothing extra in it, 2917# with 57% front weight. 205/60/15 all seasons with good tread on steelies are 39# each. Worn Hankook 215/75/15 mud tire on alloy wheel 47# each, so that'll be 32# + added from wheels and tires. Just hoping to keep it under 4000# with the EZ36, 6MT, R180, long travel, fully loaded with two people. It'll probably be close.
Took all the front suspension off the Impreza in about three hours. So nice to work on these things when they're fairly rust free. Thanks again to B for buying this green Impreza for me.
I don't know if I've ever seen drum brakes look this clean. No idea if or when they were ever replaced but guaranteed they wouldn't look this good after one month on one of our cars.
I did wind up cutting both long bolts, they were seized into the rear bushings.
I started to round off one of the nuts on one of the rear eccentric bolts too so I welded an axle nut on it. 1 1/4" box end fits perfect, a little hammering on that and it came right off.
Rear suspension has taken me three days, although only a couple hours a day.
Left the knuckles on so I don't have to disconnect brake hoses and cables. Not sure how soon I'll have the billet knuckles done, maybe while this thing is still torn apart. Just planning on doing the subframe spacers and long travel first then drive it a bit. Took the RR CV axle out since the boot is torn.
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We took my black 99 Outback and B's blue Forester out west the first week of October. Plan was to go back to Flaming Gorge and Dinosaur NM and slammo was going to lead us down part of the Rimrocker trail, a 140 mile route from Montrose, CO to Moab, UT. Also took the Massey book for UT and the gpx of those trails. They're generally fairly easy trails but it's nice to know that at least when the book was written 20 years ago they went through legally. At some point the Outback started sputtering like it was running out of fuel. Coasted off on the nearest exit and then they towed me behind a gas station and we started troubleshooting. At first it seemed like there was poor fuel flow to the engine. Tried switching gas hoses so it was pumping directly from the main tank to the engine bypassing the surge tank and still weak. Tried a bunch of things including swapping in the spare fuel pump. Eventually figured out the flow out of the main tank to the surge tank was minimal. Figured there must be some debris clogging up the pickup filter sock in the tank but didn't want to disassemble that. B came up with the idea of blowing into the pickup hose to clear the debris off and that solved the problem (for a while). We stopped at a farm supply store and auto parts store the next day in Cheyenne and bought some plumbing fittings, hose, and filters. We rigged up a tee in the pickup line and a ball valve so we could easily blow out the filter which we started doing at every gas stop or when needed. Met up with slammo and his friend A Sunday afternoon at the north end of Flaming Gorge. Hit some of the longest climbs of the week driving up to and along ridgelines with excellent views.
There are a good variety of trails there from easy dirt and gravel roads to fairly crazy hill climbs. The one pictured below we did not try.
Haven't hit many good jumps this year so I hit an uphill jump with slammo and then A, going faster each time. Hit it a little too fast with A. Had to bend the gas pedal back and adjust it to get the proper range of motion after landing in a rut.
After some good trail riding and views we camped along the river for the night.
Monday morning while I was wandering near the campsite I scared up a half dozen otters who playfully swam down the river.
We kept driving generally south checking out various trails and overlooks.
At some point B noticed the Outback had a fairly significant coolant leak. It was coming from the short ninety degree hose to the oil cooler. I was able to add a hose clamp which slowed the leak significantly. We kept topping that off the rest of the day. I tried a climb that was fairly steep but would have been alright if it hadn't been for the rock shelf/step near the top. Got some wheelspin there and broke the LR axle. Snapped the bar shaft at the inboard and the outer stub was also badly cracked. We swapped that out and took the bypass around the climb. We headed over to Massey trail #25 Brown's Park Trail and headed south on that to find a place to camp. We were disappointed by the swinging vehicle bridge, I think it's been upgraded since the book was written. The canyon we drove through was excellent though.
We found a campsite off the southern end of the trail to spend the night. The coolant hose had started to leak pretty badly again. At night I swapped a spare hose I fortunately had. The old one was coming apart probably due to my constant oil leak in that area, the hose is only a few years old. Also replaced the LF CV axle on the Outback as the outer boot had come off.
Tuesday morning we continued south.
Our next stop was Dinosaur National Monument. Drove up to the quarry and checked that out since most of us hadn't seen it.
Then we drove to Harper's Corner and hiked out to the end of that. Considered by some to be the best view in any national park or monument. It is an excellent view and most of the time there's no one else around.
On the hike out there you can see the roads we planned on driving the rest of the day.
Drove down the dugway to the bottom of the canyon and then along Yampa bench road which has a few great overlooks.
Camped near there for the night.
Wednesday morning we continued south along Massey trails #28 and 29 to check out some mines. The mining in this area appeared to consist of digging narrow vertical channels following seams.
Some if not all of it was Gilsonite, looks similar to coal but found only in this part of the world and used to make black paint and asphalt.
Our next route was the Rimrocker trail which slammo wanted us to see.
That wooden structure is the Hanging Flume that transfered up to 80 million gallons of water per day through 10 miles of flume and ditch for placer mining. Camped at a site slammo had picked out during his trip there earlier this summer.
Thursday morning I did a little wandering waiting for everyone else to wake up and found a few small mine shafts which we explored.
Z had brought his geiger counter and found a few spicy spots. Then we continued along the rimrocker trail, checked out some other mining ruins and enjoyed the scenery.
Early in the afternoon slammo bailed on us to meet with some of his friends at the Grand Canyon.
Kept following rimrocker for the most part, more stereotypical mountain views and the main trail was fairly rocky – not difficult but kept our speeds down.
Near the end of the route we stopped at an antenna tower with an excellent view and saw a deep narrow canyon we wanted to try to drive in.
We got gas and groceries that night in Moab and headed out of town where Z found us a campsite.
Friday morning we checked out the two arches next to where we camped – balcony arch and picture frame arch.
We went down the trail the map showed went down into the narrow canyon. It started inconspicuously as a gap in the brush at the edge of a big gravel parking lot. We made it a ways down the trail but eventually came to a large deep pool of slowly flowing water on one branch and downhill grade with many large rocks on another branch. We climbed out on a third branch and got back to the highway to hit some other trails. Looked at the Massey trail book and decided we'd spend the next couple days looping around Arches NP. While we were driving back through Moab we bought front and rear brake pads for the Outback since we knew at least the one corner on the rear was getting thin when we did the axle and the front seemed to be making noise. Turned out to just need the rears on the corner we'd replaced the axle on. While we were at the parts store B swapped out his tire with a leaking valve stem. We got gas at a campground but they said they didn't have a spigot we could use to refill our water jugs because they were on a well and had to limit their water use. So we pulled into a couple of their tent campsites and refilled them with those spigots and left. On the way out we drove by their uncovered and unoccupied swimming pool. As we drove past the main entrance to Arches they were turning people away and dozens of cars were lined up waiting to get in. Hit Massey trail #26 Willow Flats. Lots of dispersed camping with portapotties (fee area) along the western half. Checked out the dino tracks, not the greatest but cool.
Then we drove up #25 to the Eye of the Whale arch, a short hike and very cool.
Went up #22 Salt Valley Road. Tried to get to tower arch but it was a fairly long hike from the easy trailhead so we decided to try to drive closer from the other end of #25. Got to the first steep rocky hillclimb where a late model Jeep and Land Cruiser were both parked and got out to walk it. Z and B thought we could do it so Z drove up it in the Outback in second gear low with surprisingly little drama. I tried it in the Forester but got wheelspin at the biggest step.
Good demonstration of the locking center diff. I was able to back down about a car length and take a different line and made it to the top. The guys with the Land Cruiser got back in their car, turned around, and drove away. We never saw the Jeep guys try the climb. We kept climbing and then before we took the long descent a few people talked us out of continuing. Continued up #22 to #20 Yellow Cat trail. Checked out a few old mines.
Then it was starting to get dark so we found a place to camp on one of the overlooks.
There are a bunch of alcoves in this area I think it would be cool to hike to, didn't see any roads that went into the canyon.
Saturday we explored some larger mines, some were blocked off, others were flooded, but we were able to get in a few. This is where Z got his highest Geiger counter readings of 20,000 counts/minute (ambient is 20-100).
We took #24 and #27 and some side trails.
Part of that was a fun sandy trail with lots of undulations, not quite jumps or whoops but entertaining. Went to another arch which was fairly easy to park near and climb to the top.
At the western end of #27 was a view of a few of the large arches in the distance and a big smooth rock canyon with a pillar in the middle of it. This looks like it would be cool to hike to from the south and might not take too long if you could find a parking spot in Arches NP.
Near the southeastern corner of #24 was one of the best views of the weekend over the Colorado river with mesas and mountains.
At this point we had to head out to the highway and there were quite a few side trails so I headed northeast. We hit a few rocky grades that we didn't think were going to be time efficient routes so we headed back up #24. On the way we took a side trail that took us up a big slickrock hump. It was easy in low range but probably the biggest solid rock climb we've done. This picture is from the top, it was solid rock down to about where you can see two tracks.
Took #20 out to the highway. Hit a few decent jumps on the way, the best one was a cattle guard. I got some good air in the Outback but it didn't bottom hard. At this point we had a little time buffer to get A to the airport in time but the Outback started cutting out. I had to pull off on a narrow shoulder and blowing out the pickup didn't immediately solve the issue. Then the battery started to die, still couldn't get it started with the jump pack. Z and A drove around the block in the Forester to get us, fortunately the last exit was only a few miles back. Towed us behind a gas station, left us with B's jump pack out of the Forester. Blew out the pickup again, made sure both fuel pumps were running, took the hose off the engine (post filter) and of course various pressurized gas sprayed everywhere. Hooked it back up and it started and ran fine the rest of the way home. Wondering if the fuel rail can just fill with air and popping that hose off allows it to then refill with fuel. Pressure regulators are on the top though I think so you'd think it'd be self bleeding. A made it to the airport just in time to catch his flight, if he'd taken the next tram he would have missed it. We camped at a campground along 76 at a dried up reservoir and drove the rest of the way home Sunday with no further incidents.
Overall a great trip, excellent scenery, good trails, moderate mechanical difficulties. Every trip encourages me more and more to get my Impreza together, which I'm working on today.
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Random factoid, 98-02 Forester steering shaft appears to be interchangeable with 96-99 Outback. Wanted one without the coupler for my Impreza. Hopefully the Outback one works but worst case it will be easier to cut and weld. I'm not a fan of the rubber coupler but it seems like the ujoints always fail well before it gets sloppy. Forester on top, Outback on bottom.
Seven Subarus at my place. Got the Outback and blue Forester all ready to go for our next trip out west.
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On 8/29/2022 at 7:20 AM, el_freddo said:
Great update Todd and as always a good spread of pics too. The falls shown right up the top of this post was really interesting the way the water cut across the rock like that!
The centre diff noise - sure it’s not a bearing in the gearbox? It’s good to hear the centre diff is wearing ok, nothing wearing faster than expected?
Cheers
Bennie
Yeah that waterfall/stream was fairly unusual.
Main issue with the center diff low range is I used helical planetaries out of an automatic. Thought it would be cheaper and easier but since we're modifying the gears we are using and remaking some of the other ones, it'd probably be just as cheap to make them straight cut from scratch. I think most of the wear we're seeing is because the helical cut produces some thrust loads on various parts. Biggest issue is the ring gear for the actual differential part is held into the lock or unlock position only by the shift fork. It occasionally locks itself. I originally made the forks out of bronze. Pretty sure the noise was the fork being worn enough that it was barely keeping the ring gear in the unlock position. I'd made some steel forks in the meantime so we swapped one of those in this time. Noise went away, or is at least very faint now, everything else seems good.
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On 8/9/2022 at 4:05 PM, slammo said:
I'd guess most of that heat was from brake drag owing to the loose bearing, not the bearing itself. Might not be a bad idea to flush the brake system, or at least bleed it.
I stopped getting update emails for this thread a while ago so I haven't been checking in as often.
I wound up replacing that caliper and bled it, good call.
I also haven't been getting any update emails for USMB threads.
B and Z and I went to Minnesota for a weekend a couple weeks ago. Sort of on the way we did the last portion (~100 miles?) of the Trans Wisconsin Adventure Trail. Definitely less paved than the southern portion I did years ago but only the northernmost 10-20 miles were at all challenging and had side trails. We did hike to Morgan Falls which is fairly unique.
One lookout tower was at a sandy hilltop with a lot of narrow trails going down the hill in various directions but they all looked fairly steep so we decided not to try them.
Nothing else around there I know about or have seen for full size off roading so it's like a tiny island probably not worth visiting again.
We headed to Duluth and then went north to public land. After a while we starting hitting some moderately challenging trails and lots of dirt and gravel roads. We eventually got to Boundary Waters, Z and I had never been there and have always wanted to see it. We did a little hiking and only saw a tiny portion of it but it's obvious why it's an outdoorsman's dream. Tons of lakes, some portaging trails, and no wheeled traffic allowed. We knew Minnesota is the land of 10,000 lakes but I always thought there were a lot of lakes in northern WI and MI. In northern MN there are lakes everywhere, it's probably hard to go a mile or two without seeing one.
There were also mosquitos everywhere, more than the UP if anything. The maps seemed much more accurate than the UP, which was mostly good. We were on a few very overgrown trails that probably mainly get used by snowmobiles that went for miles but did eventually go through, and did a few long loops of fairly rocky trails. This is B's Forester going through a hole viewed out the windshield of my car.
The main obstacles that caused us to turn around were badly washed out roads. Probably not by coincidence beavers appeared to have dammed up the culverts.
One seemed like with a lot of effort we could have gone over it but it was getting late so we just camped nearby.
Not as many side trails as the UP in general. We did find quite a few stunt areas and got stuck in at least one.
On the way back we stopped in Twin Harbors, had PB&Js, checked out the ore docks, old trains, etc.
Overall seemed like a decent area for trail riding but almost twice as far from home as the UP.
Afterwards the 6MT low range was making noise while coasting. B and I removed and inspected it. Not much more wear than the last time it was out. Replaced a couple parts while it was out of the car and got it back in. Still have to reconnect shifters, driveshaft, and exhaust and test it out but hopefully good for a while. Wanted to look at it before putting one in my Impreza too.
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Finally put a real patch on the hole in the floor of the black Outback out of .040" thick 4130. The hole was much smaller than this but this is how far out I had to go to weld to decent sheet metal. Started with the piece of roofing material as a template and trimmed and hammered from there.
I was surprised how well this repair went. I figured if I got 50% attachment I'd be happy but I'd say it's closer to 90%.
Primered it, painted black too but haven't taken pictures of that. Figure it will at least delay the rusting process, but either way should outlast the rest of the car.
I kept thinking I'm going to be parting this thing out soon but at this point I think what will total it will be some kind of wiring malfunction or fire. So I think slammo is right, probably just keep patching things up as needed until that happens.
While I did this, B and Z swapped out the door lock cylinder, rear door, put on folding mirrors that slammo sent me and a few other things.
I really do need to get started on the billet rear knuckles soon and the Impreza.
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Car looks great! Better underheating than overheating.
I would guess some kind of fuel delivery issue but I don't know much about those engines. To test the whole system it's best to disconnect the supply line as close to the engine as possible and run the fuel pump. Good rule of thumb is 1oz/second per 200hp. Don't know offhand how that converts to non barbaric units, we usually just fill a 12oz bottle/can and make sure it can do it under 12 seconds (for a 200hp engine).
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Went up to the UP last weekend. Based on a previous trip I didn't think there were a lot of trails in the Keweenaw but we decided to check it out. I wanted to try a trail that supposedly went north from Bond Falls and A said he'd never seen the falls so we did that hike. Tried one trail that was fairly short and dead ended at a large dilapitated cabin owned by the US gov't right along a river.
Hit the highway for a while and headed to the start of the Bill Nichols trail. Saw “Adventure Mountain” on the map and Z thought we should check it out. Took one dead end trail along some houses and then took another one that went to an awesome overlook with a great view of Mass City.
Checked out the Adventure mine entrance (looked like copper and ice on the rocks) and some other mining ruins and a Pinzgauer parked by the visitor center. Hit the Bill Nichols trail and walked the Firesteel trestles and took some pictures before driving over them.
Stayed at a state park along the trail not too far north of there. Tons of mosquitos but the people weren't super noisy and it was nice to have a bathroom with running water.
Drove through Houghton and Hancock and went to the Quincy mine. Got there around 10AM and their next tour wasn't until 1:30PM so we figured we'd check out Gay beach in the meantime.
On the way we hiked to Hungarian falls. Fairly short hike, less than a mile, uphill on the way there. Two big falls, smaller one much easier to see than the larger one.
Got to Gay and went out on the tailings (crushed rock byproduct of copper mining, almost as fine as sand). 23 million tons of mine tailings were dumped and less than 3 million are still there on the beach. They're reclaiming them to use as an aggregate in cement. The tailings are mostly soft and generally required full throttle in first or second gear. Looped around a bit and Forester was starting to run a little hot so we stopped by the trees where the ground is firmer and aired down.
Did a little better with 20psi, eventually we wound up at the north end of the beach where there's pilings for an old pier. I decided to try driving up a steep but short hill/bank up to the level road. I asked A and he thought we should go for it. Just as we crested the top at an angle I backed off and we felt the ground fall out from under us. The car rolled on to the driver's side but fortunately stopped there. A said he saw the mirror fold in, shatter, then shatter the driver's window. We'd driven off a ~30” tall wall. First step was securing the car so it didn't roll farther.
Took us about an hour and a half to get the car away from the wall and back on the tires. Here we're swinging the rear of the car away from the wall.
Pushed on the car by hand and pulled with the Forester to roll it back down.
We'd debeaded the LR tire and lost some fuel. We ate some PB&Js to let the fluids drain back where they're supposed to be.
Got a little knocking when I first fired it up and shut it off. I remembered I've heard EZ30s make that noise before after major service (head gasket replacement) so I just cranked it for a minute or so and then started it up. No more knocking noises, seemed to run smooth. On the way out of town we fumigated the place but after a mile or so it cleared up, probably some oil drained past the rings into the exhaust and/or intake. Not too many fumes or rain inside the car with all the windows down so we did that and just put a tarp over the car when we parked for any significant duration. Got back to Quincy with about five minutes to spare before the tour started. Tour was great, biggest steam hoist/winch in the world, took about two hours.
Tour was a couple hours long and definitely worth it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/photostoartbymike/33489192096
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=11161
Headed up 41 and along the north shore of Keweenaw. Drove some trails north of Cliff drive. Drove to the overlook on Brockway Mountain, maybe the best view in the UP.
Got some beer and relish in Copper Harbor and continued up the Mandan loop.
On the way to the rocket range we saw four Subarus on the trail, and it was a fairly rough dirt road with good sized water holes. Got to rocket range (small launchpad for rockets in the 60s, hasn't been used since 1971). It was getting late so we just camped there. LR seemed to have some positive camber so we adjusted it for max negative camber. Mosquito infested but otherwise a cool place to camp.
Did more of the Mandan loop on Sunday wandering around on various side trails. At one point we did a couple narrow/overgrown trails that we eventually turned around and drove back out of, one of them seemed like we probably could have made it through to the end.
Hit a sandy stunt area with some cool hill climbs. I looped one big one a couple times and then asked A if he wanted to ride along. First time I got stuck just before the peak and was able to back down. Second time I got stuck just past the peak and couldn't get unstuck. I was barely able to get out the driver's window. Hooked a couple of our longest straps together and Z pulled me down in the Forester.
Eventually got back up by Cliff drive and did a bunch more trails there including at least one excellent trail to a clifftop view/campsite. Wound up driving to both ends of a road flooded by a beaver pond. Fairly steep climb with big rocks going up from that.
Found some other mine ruins and the snow thermometer (27 feet last winter). Went back to Gay and bombed around some more on the tailings. We drove up and down the bank I'd driven over and one time A thought they were too close to the edge and started having flashbacks of our rollover. Didn't see the stamping presses I thought I'd seen there before but checked out some of the other ruins. Saw a wood(?) turtle crossing the road. Center diff was locked up by the end of the day and we weren't able to easily get it unlocked.
Radar showed rain increasing all morning Monday so we packed up fairly early and headed south. Stopped at Ed's on the way and luckily they had a door and it wasn't raining too hard. Took us maybe twenty minutes to swap the doors.
Ride home was fairly uneventful, rainy but good to have all the windows back in the Outback. Noisy and drafty without the door card, we hadn't bothered to swap that over. We moved some things around in the cars in Milwaukee and split up from there. About fifty miles from home the RR wheel bearing started to make noises and feel increasingly unstable. Got off the interstate and took back roads to A's mom's house. He had talked to his grandpa about meeting us there with a trailer but it didn't seem too bad at 40-50mph so I told him I'd just limp it home. I did make it home but it was getting increasingly smoky.
Tire pressure sensor was beeping, peaked at 196F. Hub and CV temps exceeded 600F by the time I measured them.
Overall a good trip, saw a lot of new trails and sights and came home with some stories. Definitely a good thing we had two low range cars although most of what you couldn't do with low range was at the end of a climb to a campsite/overlook and wasn't a long walk. I do have a complete spare RR knuckle, I think I'm going to just swap the whole thing out. Need to do that, do a little more painting on the door, properly patch the floor, and start working on the Impreza.
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Drove up to Z's house last Thursday and stole his truck so we could pick up slammo at the airport. By the time we got back Z was home and had a cam position trouble code on the FXT. Sounded like the root cause was probably plugged filter screens at the turbo and cam phaser acuators. They didn't seem super dirty but we removed them all. Just to be safe B drove down to the only Oreillys that had the phasers and sensors and bought those. In the meantime A and I went to the grocery store to buy food. Then we finished loading up and headed north. By the time we got close to the UP it was getting dark so we were just looking for a place to camp. Saw a trail in WI but it was of course ATV/UTV only. As soon as we got in the UP we went down some trails and found a spot to camp next to a small lake.
The next morning we trail rode up to the Baraga pipeline grade. Hit a couple sandy stunt areas on the southern end.
The best jump we found was actually one farther north than we normally go on the grade.
Hit some powerline grade near there next and started heading east.
We were on a lot of trails we'd never seen before and covered about 200 miles mostly off pavement. Camped in a clearing along a side trail.
We found a small scrap metal pile so we started looking through that and found a pair of Subaru CV axles and control arms! Drove through Dukes/Upper Peninsula experimental forest which we'd never seen before. Near the end of the day we drove to Laughing Whitefish falls to do the little hike. Just before we got there we started getting splashed with water from the rear floor of the Outback. About a square foot of sheet metal had almost torn off.
I was able to tuck it back up and safety wire it. Falls was pretty cool, one of the best in the UP.
We took a whooped out railroad grade to the Forest Lake campground. Along the way we saw another scrap metal pile so we grabbed a piece of roofing material for the floor. Near the end of the whoops was a big one A hit at about 45mph that launched the car in the air and we cleared the next four or five whoops. At camp A cut the roofing material to fit and screwed it to the floor.
The next day we hit some more trails and stunt areas and saw a couple snapping turtles on the way to the bluff campsite.
The slightly better site was taken so we camped at the one slightly to the west. Rained a little and was super buggy but the view was great as always and had a good nights sleep.
Monday morning we did a little trail riding on the way home. Slammo found a long trail along a river on the map so we followed that past where it ended on the map and just kept getting narrower and rougher and we eventually turned around. On that trail the Outback started running a little hot even with the fans on. We stopped and didn't hear them running, then the next time we stopped one of them was running and the temps were solid the rest of the day. Went to the opposite end of the trail we couldn't get to the end of from the between the lakes campsite and every option we could find had very long stretches of standing water. Went down and back up the rutted out climb to a river. Got to the campsite between the lakes and then started heading home. Hit a couple more good jumps. Drove home with no other issues.
Outback had a very worn/beat inner tie rod, which seemed fine right before the trip. It's like one of the races for the ball joint got pressed in/out. Had to replace one of the fan fuses.
Z had a leak in his LR tire that he had to plug a few times. His cam codes eventually went away but then he started getting an O2/cat code.
No major problems, weather was decent, covered a lot of miles.
Struts are almost ready for my Impreza, will probably start lifting that and installing suspension soon.
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B and I met travelvw last Friday in Missouri for some trail riding and camping. Within an hour we got to a paved stream crossing. Got enough water in the car the power locks on the Outback stopped working. Did some trail riding that night, saw some small waterfalls.
Travelvw got stuck in a mud hole in his Marty McFly Toyota so I drove around and pulled him out. Didn't seem to hurt anything, he said later it was just an inch below the doors and trans/tcase vents. Camped out on a little hilltop, it was warm at night and rained quite a bit very early in the morning.
The next day we followed travelvw around. Saw more little waterfalls and some excellent views.
He talked us into trying one rocky climb that we probably would have just driven around on our own. I was able to get most of the way up the hard way in low with center diff locked but the ledges were spaced just right so I'd get all four wheels stuck in muddy ditches and couldn't quite make it all the way. Took an easier line and was able to make it up. B tried it in the Forester with the dual range a couple times, couldn't get quite as far, and took the bypass. Went to an old school bus that's been parked for a long time.
Went to a campsite along a big stream and parked the cars, travelvw's friend R showed up and we all rode in travelvw's truck across the stream and a little farther down the trail to a cool waterfall.
While we were walking around I saw a baby snapping turtle floating helplessly down the stream. Thought it was a leaf at first. I was able to grab it out of the water and showed the guys. It was playing dead so I took it back to the campsite. It eventually started crawling again so B took it in the woods so we wouldn't step on it.
Sunday morning we went to a trailhead and travelvw got in B's car and R got in mine. We did a loop we'd done Saturday just to show R the trails and what the cars could do. More cool rocky climbs and great views.
Stopped at an old cellar to make PB&Js and check on a few things, just tightened up some bolts.
Kept going and got to a badly rutted out muddy section (with an easy bypass). Travelvw was going to just drive around it but when I told him I was going to try it he had to. After about half a dozen tries he made it through. I made it most of the way through and to keep from backing up and packing my skidplates with mud travelvw pulled me the rest of the way through.
Got to an old farm and a strong flowing spring and big stream.
Left front corner on the Outback was starting to make a lot of clunking noise. At first it just seemed like the control arm bushing(s) was worn out but then we noticed the subframe was cracked. Turned out later the inner tie rod was worn out too. It was supposed to rain an inch the next morning so we wanted to be fairly close to gravel so it wouldn't be too challenging to get out.
Travelvw found a moth with a cool paint job.
Monday morning I wanted to get off the trails before it started raining so we aired up and ran from the storm. Corner was a little sketchy on hard right turns but mostly unnoticeable on tarmac. Stopped at a little city park on the way home to get out of the cars and make PB&Js. While I was making them I saw something swimming in the pond, it looked like a carp. We looked at it closer and it turned out to be a common water snake. Got some good pictures of it and saw another one swimming around too.
Power locks were working again by the time we got home.
Overall a great trip, no major issues, each of us only got stuck once. Lots of low range usage. Probably the trip we've done where low range was most required just to make any of the major trail loops. Used it less than 5% of the time but absolutely required many of those times. Also made it a lot easier to hit some of the steps and obstacles slower than we would have in the past to go easier on the cars. By the end of the weekend I figured out that it's difficult to unlock the center diff (all other shifting super easy) so I only locked that when I really needed it, which was quite a few times. Travelvw wants the low range and long travel but is thinking he'd add 2” of subframe and strut spacers. This would reduce a lot of rubbing, banging, and scraping on those trails. I told him just stick with his Toyota for that kind of stuff but the lift would definitely have helped our cars down there.
Already welded the crossmember and removed the control arm to replace the bushings.We're planning a couple of trips to the UP in late May / early June, if anyone's interested in joining us please PM me.
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16 hours ago, docmidBratt said:
Thanks man
So the bottom layer has about 20 degrees fall
The perforations are to let any air out that might get in or trapped at bottom.
I would have thought the oil would drain down?
What percentage come through the bottom of the engine?
and what percentage comes through the drain pipe?
The upper layer also is angled down. not as much as bottom layer.
do you think the top layer it is to restrictive?
should I open it up more?
As for windage tray I was trying to sort of do that with the 2 layers
Take all this with a giant grain of salt. I have assembled dozens of automotive engines, even won some races with some of them, but have only assembled one Subaru engine. Proper oil control is definitely key to longevity especially in road racing. I would err more on the side of maximum drainage than too much baffling. Make sure the heads have healthy drainage to the case, not sure I've ever looked at that in a Subaru.
I have no idea without looking closer at one how much comes through that drain pipe but clearly some of it, maybe even most of it, drains down the center. Don't have one torn apart here to look at.
Personally I'd angle the top layer down at a much steeper angle, maybe 45 degrees if you could make it work.
Again, it's been a while, I think most Subaru engines have some kind of semiposterior windage tray. This is what I meant by a crank scraper/windage tray though:
You want them nearly touching the rods and crank to get as much oil off the outside of your rotating assembly and down into the pan as possible.
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8 hours ago, docmidBratt said:
Another update
the sump build, with the previous playing around with the water tin experiment we came up with a plain.
Using the old type sump for more oil volume an a bit of stuff lying around
All bottom layer angled down and fully sealed around. so breathable but reduces the
oil sloshing up and away from the bottom.
upper layer solid but open around edges again to prevent splash.
works a treat with water. you can see the bottom of the sump still full of oil when swing around.
Any thoughts?
The hole tt legacy only coat $400 so cheap engine to experiment with. ha ha ha
next catch cans but might have to drop her on the ground and give her a spin
Interesting. So two layers with the bottom one perforated? I suppose room temperature water probably has about the same viscosity as hot engine oil. I'd be a bit worried about having adequate drainage to the bottom, I'd try it with baffles that are angled downward more steeply and/or don't stick in as far from the walls. I'd be surprised if a significant amount of oil goes through the perforations.
Some quick googling indicates the oil pump can flow about 10gpm (40 liters per minute) at high RPM, similar to a garden hose. You want to make sure that can all get to the bottom of the pan.
Have you thought about making or buying a crank scraper/windage tray?
Definitely let us know how the test run goes!
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42 minutes ago, travelvw said:
Sounds like you're getting close on a total package that works. Those conversion axles must be junk! I assume that is your only option until you make billet rear knuckles? If so, I see why that's next on the list.
KThe conversion axles are the best of the R160 rear axles. I don't think I'd ever broken any before the 6MT/R180 conversion, probably because the open R160 diff would go first. Before this weekend I think I've broken three of them and two of those were trying to launch the car.
See slammo's post below but for the most part STI rear axles require STI knuckles which means bigger wheel bolt pattern and brakes. Plus with the front axles in rear we'll probably just each carry one spare front axle which means less cargo weight and volume.
8 minutes ago, slammo said:Trip looks like a blast, wish I could have gone.
You could get rear knuckles from a 5x100 sti and use stock 04 sti rear axles, but those are fitment for rear brembo or 2-pot brakes, neither of which would fit inside those 5-spoke OEM 15" wheels. I suppose it might be worth swapping the brake backing plate. At the end of the day, the stock sti rear axles aren't all that strong either, but they might get you by until the billet knuckles and diff stubs are ready.
Not the best trip ever but I'm glad we went. That RR grade would be perfect in a mountain bike where you could just carry it over/through the occasional obstacle/stream, that whole section was pretty cool. Maybe a dirt bike.
Diff stubs are already in the works. Speaking of which, if anyone has any R180 spider gears I could use one for checking spline fitment. Yeah really gotta get going on the knuckles.
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12 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:
you had 2 spare axles with you?
Two of the rear R160/R180 conversion axles. Seems to be the last weak link in the black Outback's drivetrain. Left and right are slightly different lengths so luckily I had one of each and broke one of each. They've been disappointingly weak but on the plus side they're much easier to replace in the field than a trans or diff. Really have to get the billet knuckle program going so we can put front axles in the rear.
Also had standard front and rear axles packed.
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Now for the next dose of critters and carnage.
We hit the Kentucky Adventure Tour just outside of Lexington and headed east/clockwise.
https://kentuckyadventuretour.com/
At least part of it followed the Daniel Boone Backcountry Byway.
Fairly early on I thought we should check out one of the “hard” options. Almost immediately it went down a badly rutted out long steep grade. There was a wheel and tire assembly and Land Rover bumper along this grade, probably not a good sign. We thought we could probably get back up if we had to but figured it went through so one way or another we could get out.
Portion of this was along an old railroad grade that someone spent a lot of effort building. Some of it was washed out making it barely wide enough for Subarus. Near the end of the day we got to a tunnel which went under the RR grade, drove down to that, through, and back up.
Camped for the night along a stream.
The next morning we continued down the grade until we got to a four way intersection.
Our first attempt was the GPX route which went up a fairly steep long rocky grade. I broke a rear axle trying to make the climb in high range. B towed me up to the next level spot with my car having only front wheel drive (center diff locked). We swapped it out.
First time we've ever broken a CV stub, all the other rear axles I've broken have been the bar shaft. On closer inspection it turned out the bar shaft also broke!
Just after we finished we were checking out the next portion of the climb which had even bigger rocks and we watched some modified UTVs cruise up it easily. I think we could have done it but we decided to try one of the other options. Our next attempt was to continue on the RR grade. There were a few badly washed out sections, some just wide enough for a Subaru to drive over. Other sections were so badly washed out that there were bypasses. One in particular went down and across a small stream. B tried it but didn't have enough approach angle and got the front end stuck in rocks. I tried pulling him back up the muddy clay bank but his car started sliding sideways.
Eventually we used the high lift on the back bumper, shoveled out from under the car, and put a ramp under the RR tire. Then I was able to pull him out. We both drove through the stream and continued on. Here you can see the (rail?) road base.
Eventually we came to a bridge that didn't exist but the supports on either bank of the stream were impressive stone structures. There was a trail down to the stream but the bank was soft sand.
I think we could have driven across it if we'd been able to get off to the side. I took my shoes and socks off and walked through. Put them back on and walked about a half mile down the grade. There was one narrow section but other than that it didn't look too bad. There was possibly a way down and across the stream and up out of the valley but I didn't walk it to see for sure. The grade eventually came to a narrow cut in the rock with an old locked gate at the far end. We decided to turn back around, this time I got stuck trying to drive up the soft bank on the far side of the one tiny stream. Winched to a nearby tree and continued back to the four way intersection. The last option crossed a river and required driving down the river a bit. B walked it, the water was a little over knee deep. I went first in the Outback with water coming over the front of the hood, probably the deepest water crossing I've ever done with it. Did get some inside but not a lot. Z drove the Forester across and we continued, eventually getting back to a main road. Long story short it took us about a day to cover maybe five miles.
Z got stuck in a muddy section of trail in the Forester and right after we pulled him out a group of wild horses came down the trail.
We stopped at a railroad trestle that was marked just off the route, there were a few trails there including one that went over the trestle.
Sunday we did a lot of pavement driving. We were trying to hit the KY state high point and get close to Knoxville to pick up some wheels for travelvw. Most of the route seemed to be paved. We stopped at a park in VA to get out of the car and make PB&Js. Saw some red spotted newts mating in a small lake.
We short cutted the easternmost part as it appeared to be paved on my map and this would get us to the Jackson NF. Unfortunately that was almost all paved too. We got to the high point of KY.
Then we continued and eventually got to more unpaved sections.
On a rutted out climb I dropped a tire in a big hole and when it came back down it broke the other rear axle. I was able to take an easier line up the hill in low with the center diff locked and made it up with just front wheel drive. B and I swapped out the axle and by then it was getting dark so we made dinner and set up the tents. This one broke the axle shaft but on closer inspection the outboard stub was cracked most of the way around.
Monday morning I found a salamander and a big American(?) toad.
Tried driving to Hensley Settlement even though that road was marked extreme on the GPX route. Got a ways up it and then stopped at a levelish spot.
Just got rockier from there so we decided to turn around especially considering we were running out of time and had no more spare conversion axles. We drove up to Pinnacle Point in Cumberland Gap NHP.
Overall a decent trip, way more pavement driving than we like. Plenty of recovery practice and low range use. If this was the part of the country you lived in, a Toyota or something would be a much better tool for the job. Low range in both cars was working great all weekend. Engine oil leak in the Outback even seemed to slow down significantly.
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Another recent project. B has been skeptical of the LR strut tower on his blue Forester. He finally took out the interior to find this. Car is otherwise rust free.
After cleanup with some wire wheels it actually didn't look too bad.
Looks like that whole corner of the car was replaced at some point. Black on the inside and the VIN sticker doesn't match the rest of the car. Can see where it was cut, rewelded, and repainted at the rear pillar too.
Used B's new high lift to spread/preload the towers a bit and did some welding.
Added some strips at the bottom, seemed impossible to get a decent weld at that seam due to the thin layers, caulk, etc. Painted and reassembled everything. Also welded a bunch of other little cracks/gaps, most of them also from this old repair.
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Couple recent fab projects. R was sick of the factory rear lateral link adjusters either self adjusting or rusting solid in place. Really don't like the idea of having the threaded bit right in the middle. We made up these from some right and left hand bolts, threaded rod, bungs, and 1.125" tubing. Brush painted them hoping that will hold up a little better than our normal rattle can painting. Doesn't look as good and started assembly before they were fully cured because we're that impatient. Used Whiteline bushings, have always just used Subaru in the past, they seem to last indefinitely. These are far easier to install though. Had to cut the old ones out. Replaced eccentric bolts with 14mm bolts and nuts, welded some spacers inside the stock rings to locate the bolts. Seems to work so far.
Finally got tired of using this dilapidated wooden block for the floor jack for our lifted Subarus.
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Video from our trip to Arkansas last April.
Got video from a few more trips last year but no idea when I'll have time to edit them.
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For what it's worth I've now read that all the wiring should be there, module is different between manual and automatic.
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long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad
in Off Road
Posted · Edited by pontoontodd
First, try to answer some questions.
Thanks for posting that vid, shows some pretty good crawling although as always it seemed a lot steeper in person.
This is how high above the rear fender lip the tire goes at full bump with no bumpstop.
Angle of the photo makes it look like more but 1.25" + with very worn tread. I'd figure at least 1.75" with new 215/75/15 to be safe. I still think it will take a lot of structural cutting to make even bigger tires fit when they're pushed out a couple inches. Cutting/bending out the front fenders, sure no problem, but the rears will be a lot of fab work to get the body to seal I think. Possibly a bigger problem will be the front tires rubbing the firewall. As it sits there's maybe an inch of clearance. And I can tell you from experience once bushings wear out and things get a little tweaked the 215/75/15s rub on the firewall (back of the front wheel well). No idea how you'd solve that problem without a LOT of fab work. Whiteline does sell offset bushings for the aluminum rear brackets for the front control arms and I think I have a pair but that won't buy you a lot of clearance. Really not trying to hate, I think these cars would be even better with taller tires now that we have low ranges. Would be cool if you make it work just want to make sure you know what you're up against.
I thought about welding the rear strut hole but figured it'd just be a lot of welding and grinding with minimal benefit. Painted those and thought I took pictures but don't have them handy.
Yes, planning on removing those trailing arm spacers when we fab the new trailing arms. Less leverage on the mount, more up and back motion for ride quality, etc.
Moving on - sleeved and capped the subframe spacers.
Painted all the spacers with some brush on tractor enamel. Looks terrible but on the plus side you can put it on a lot thicker than spray paint, no overspray (nice in the winter), and it seems to hold up better.
Front subframe spacer with bottom plate installed.
Trans and driveshaft spacers installed.
Unfortunately I couldn't quite get full droop in the front, the axles were hitting the arms. I'm not sure if the trans is effectively lower on this one than our other cars or if the auto trans outputs are a little lower. Regardless, some cutting, welding, and painting took place. Didn't take much, even this much gives me a decent amount of clearance. Might be able to get away with cutting a slot in that wall and just hammering the top down.
Next on the fab and paint agenda was the steering column. Had to add 20mm / 0.8". Turned up a sleeve out of 300M and welded and painted it. Should figure out a better way to do this next time, despite a lot of spraying with WD40 the u joints might have lost some grease. Maybe submerge them in oil or water while welding.
Last fab project before the test drive, welded some reservoir mounts on and moved the brake line brackets.
Painted those, installed struts etc.
Did install a bolt in the middle of the rear subframe mounts. Put rubber grommets above and below for some bushing effect. Interesting that it's rubber mounted (albeit stiffly) and the front is solidly mounted. Regardless, after getting sorta used to the black Outback, I'll be fine.
One more long travel Subaru on the loose.
White Outback for scale.
Only weighs 2995#! 56% front weight now. Tires and suspension and spacers are heavier, wheels are lighter and we removed the front bumper cover, foglights, and swaybars. Will eventually be close to 4000# with the H6, bumpers, skidplates, cargo, and a couple people inside. Then it will sit lower and probably ride better, it's definitely a little stiff right now. For reference, my black Outback weighed 4152# the last time we weighed it (a couple years ago) with no people or cargo but with H6, bumpers, skidplates, etc.
B also welded up the hatch latch (body side) in his blue Forester, it was all cracked and sloppy. We checked and tightened a few things on the front end too.
Back to the black Outback. Replaced the LF wheel bearing, wasn't real sloppy but was making a ton of noise.
Pictured below is our "fix" during our last trip for the fuel pickup getting clogged. See yellow ball valve on left. Open that up and blow into it hard to clear the pickup sock.
Took the fill plate off. Gaskets were still in excellent shape, polyurethane I used last time works much better than the supposedly fuel resistant rubbers I'd tried before. Took some foam out and peeked in, nowhere near as bad as I expected. Foam doesn't seem to be disintegrating. Some small debris in the tank but not much considering the cell has been in there for perhaps 100k miles without being cleaned out. Pickup tube and sock was jammed in the corner, which is probably how it's always been, but by the time I got it out it was kinked a bit, not sure if that's how it was before I started removing it. Sock definitely has a lot of crud on it. Pretty sure it started out white.
Removed the sock and put the pickup hose back in. Put a clear inline filter before the pump. We'd thought about doing this on the trip and bought the parts to do it but I didn't want to remove the pickup sock then. This is what it looked like after about a half hour of driving around town today. Need to swap it out, maybe backflush it and use again. Will probably do that a few times and then put a coarser screen pickup sock on the pickup tube and leave one of these in place.