brus brother

Shawn, "The Front 02, or "Bank 1 sensor 1" on most Subarus is typically in need of replacement every 105K miles on US model cars." There are a total of 5 sensors on my 05 OB. 2 upstream, 2 downstream behind the first cats and one behind the rear cat. At 105,000 miles and an occasional P0420 (mostly local driving / regular Citgo gas / new spark plugs) is there a preference for replacing either sensor as a "wear item" or is bank one after first cat the choice? OR is this still just throwing parts at the car and I and the original poster would be better off getting a data-logging program like THIS and then posting results?

I guess you could swap sensors to see if the code switches from bank 1 to bank 2. But do you just listen/feel for leaks? Does the leak have to be pretty big to throw a code? Is there a CEL-NoMore in a can I can spray on the hood of the car?

I agree entirely with John but here are some considerations. What year/model car. My recent experience with P0420 was with my 05 Outback follows. At 104,000 miles I got CEL. Autozone checked (for free) P0420 with the description you note. They erased the code as well. Car ran like crap as soon as I restarted it but smoothed out once the computer re-learned the engine. CEL came back again at about 60 miles but before I drove back to Autozone and having researched the code on-line I feared the worst that the passenger side catalytic converter was dead. I bought a cheap code reader on-line for about $20. After I made the purchase, I read that others suggest that a real time data-logger program with connector running off your laptop for not much more $ is the way to go with a better diagnosis but so far I have had adequate results with the code reader. OK now that I didn't have to drive to Autozone every time it threw a code I could experiment and with the help of the web I tried various "cheats". There is a spark plug anti-fouler ($5 for a pair at Autozone in the self help area part# 42009) that can be drilled out and used to back the 02 sensor out of the cat and fool the computer into thinking the catalytic converter is working at it's desired efficiency. I tried one then two piggybacked but my code came back (and even got a different code... ) so after a while I gave up and removed all of the cheaters and then no CEL until last week at 1085 miles later. Is your car well tuned? Have you started using cheapo gas? The dealer implied there would be a different code for O2 sensor but John's O2 suggestion is tempting my wallet's sensibility. I cleared the code again but I am prepared to get an aftermarket cat with a 5 year warranty for a third of the price of an OEM cat with a 12 month warranty. Note that my 05 Outback has a particularly expensive design in that there are 3 catalytic converters and 5 O2 sensors! This particular setup appears to NOT work well with the cheaters. I performed the modifications on the O2 sensor immediately behind the first cat on the passenger side. When I was tinkering around with the cheaters, I got yet a different code. People swear by the fix and a wink from Autozone sales seems to indicate it's common knowledge. So if you just want to pass emissions and simulate the rich man's $750 emissions conscience, buy a cheap code reader. Simple to learn and operate. Once you clear the code, the computer will read certain systems NOT READY (which would also red flag your car at testing). There is a certain method of driving at 60 mph for a few cycles to set the systems as ready. Keep checking the code reader. Timed right, when codes have been cleared and all systems are "ready" you can get right to testing and you might pass before throwing the first "pending" code and then the second code which lights up the CEL. Like the outcome of a rain dance, sometimes it's just a matter of timing. NOTE: I have read that this friggin' code can return even after you change the cat so while I am certainly in favor of clean environment, the difference between readings that are AOK and operating just "below threshold" is a gray area for you and your wallet to mull over.

Thanks for the tips but I am at arms length from the shop. My dealings were strictly with SOA and my father-in-law was given the $2100 guestimate by the shop as a worse case scenario, replacing everything but the ashtray. He is 83 and I was glad to be able to negotiate with SOA for him. I did my research and was well informed going into discussions thanks to USMB and I think SOA dealt with us fairly as a family of long time customers.

Good news, GG. While this wasn't part of the 100K/8year WWP99, SOA kicked in $1500 for the job. New tb/ wp/ heads resurfaced and parts on us but I'm OK with that. Not sure that they will automatically replace the cam seals tensioners etc. My faith in Sube head gaskets still wavers but not so their customer service! Nipper's suggestion for a Volvo for new driver is in line with Car Talk guys Click and Clack. "In the first six months, they can take that nice square car and turn it into an oval".

82K miles 2002 Legacy GT Need to buy a car for my 17 year old new driver and I'm beginning to waver on my Subaru loyalty. This would have been #7 in the family...

Right you were. Head gaskets were leaking. Dealer had the car torn down before I asked them about a bottle (or two) of conditioner. My father-in-law has been having an indie do maintenance and they likely never added the Holts conditioner stop leak goop. Was the conditioner factory installed by 02? HG, timing belt, water pump $2K.

HG gasket leak a small drip, like one every 5 seconds? I couldn't see a pinhole leak and it appears it was dripping at the interface and not from a hose. I am under the impression that this vintage external leak was usually behind #1, driver's side rear. It's really tight under there and I didn't have any ramps to get a better look. He drove the car home 60 mph for about an hour and didn't overheat... yet. He knows enough to keep an eye on the gauge and water level till it goes into the shop.

My father-in-law arrived in his 2002 Legacy GT having just noticed temp gauge had hit the red zone. He turned on the heater (smart guy) and it came down and he drove the last mile or two here. I put in about a gallon of water and drove it around. There is a slow drip near the bottom, passenger side about an inch behind the timing cover at the area where I suppose the thermostat calls home. Is this how a faulty water pump rears its ugly little head?

I'm not much of a mechanic but a pretty good proof-reader. "7. The timing belt tooth count was different than my manual. I needed 47 teeth on the passenger side and 43.5 on the passenger side." :-\

This may not relate to your Forrester but on my 05 OB, the capability was there BUT the engineers hadn't thought it through. The result was an inaccessible filter. The filter box AND tray were there but no access to open compartment/change filter. Early into production, they realized their oops and discontinued offering the option. Later they offered a questionable fix with something of a curtain but hunting around other sites I found a much better solution. You can swap parts from the 08 into the 05 and it will make it functional. I actually pitched a b@#tch with SOA concerning their under-engineering and they gave me a $100 credit that I applied towards the installation. I got discounted parts from http://www.SubaruPartsForYou (which is my local dealer anyway). I couldn't ask for a better outcome from SOA customer relations department.

and they say the New England Yankee is thrifty good test for diagnosis though.

These two indicate that you have a Fault Code to be read from the car's on board computer. There is a connector below the steering wheel that you connect to a code reader. The code reader will tell you what's wrong via a series of numbers. Once you have these numbers you will get an idea of what to do. Locally, auto parts stores routinely check for free but I'm unfamiliar with Macedonia. I think you can clear the code by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, press on the brake pedal then reconnect the battery but that may screw up radio presets and alarm systems. You may get lucky and the code won't come back but it is better to know what the problem is. Best to read the code and find out what's wrong.

Yup, I cut that board three times and it is still too short!

and the winner is... Fuzpile!

Over here on the east coast I use SubaruPartsForYou.com at Dan Perkins Subaru in CT Either Anthony, John or Chris are very helpful and the prices are internet (shop) prices. I can walk right in and they give me the on-line price.

Since you mentioned it... any chance a defective t-stat could restrict flow causing eddying/noise?

How old are the power belts (PS and Alternator) on the car. Just changed mine out at 105,000 miles and while they looked OK from the outside, they were shot on the inside! YIKES. There was a bit of a squeal right after the new ones were installed that disappeared with the corrected tension. So, you still have the problem and they have your $$. I hate listening to some service managers. They sound worse than aluminum siding salesmen. Please ask questions here before spending your cash. There are some very talented members who are generous with their time and knowledge that have helped me enormously and taught me a thing or three.

Just curious, did the power steering fluid really need replacing or did your wallet need emptying?

Check your email. BTW, buzzing/rattling is usually associated with heat shields on the exhaust system. Annoying but not life threatening. The noise can be eliminated cheaply with a few sheet metal screws or large hose clamps or a very loud radio.

22 posts and we haven't even got to the car problem yet... head gaskets, rocker light switch, I hate the Tribeca... We don't need no stinkin' pictures! Just ask your question.

How do I attach a file to a post? To attach a file to your post, you need to be using the main 'New Post' or 'New Thread' page and not 'Quick Reply'. To use the main 'New Post' page, click the 'Post Reply' button in the relevant thread. On this page, below the message box, you will find a button labelled 'Manage Attachments'. Clicking this button will open a new window for uploading attachments. You can upload an attachment either from your computer or from another URL by using the appropriate box on this page. Alternatively you can click the Attachment Icon to open this page. To upload a file from your computer, click the 'Browse' button and locate the file. To upload a file from another URL, enter the full URL for the file in the second box on this page. Once you have completed one of the boxes, click 'Upload'. Once the upload is completed the file name will appear below the input boxes in this window. You can then close the window to return to the new post screen. What files types can I use? How large can attachments be? In the attachment window you will find a list of the allowed file types and their maximum sizes. Files that are larger than these sizes will be rejected. There may also be an overall quota limit to the number of attachments you can post to the board. How do I add an image to a post? If you have uploaded an image as an attachment, you can click the arrow next to the 'Attachment Icon' and select it from the list. This will be inserted into your post and can be located where you want it displayed. To include an image that is not uploaded as an attachment and is located on another website, you can do so by copying the full URL to the image, (not the page on which the image is located), and either pressing the 'Insert Image' icon or by typing after it, ensuring that you do not have any spaces before or after the URL of the image. You can insert pictures from your albums (?) in this way too.

Check out "Artisan Breads in 5 Minutes a Day." You'll never go back to the Bread Machine. Any sign of the paperclip yet?

Yeah, my aged eyes never really got adjusted to the goth black style of the new and improved USMB website.