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The 2005 legacy limited GT engine is shot. When the turbo let go it dumped well over a half a cup of filings in the oil pan. And, half the oil blew out. You would have to strip down the engine completely.... completely. There is no cleaning method that will guarantee you get all the filings out. New parts would nearly equal the value of the car if it had a running motor. It had an aftermarket service contract. That company insisited the motor be torn down so they could send over a rep to determine cause of failure. That procedure would cost over $1,000 and would not be a complete tear down. Copies of all oil and filter receipts were kept, however they were not good enough for either the aftermarket service company or Subaru corporate. Subaru Customer Care was contacted and asked for copies of the oil and filter receipts. They got them and offered no help. The are remain tight lipped. We picked up a good used engine. Did a leak down test. Nearly like new. Cam journals and lobes are like new. Oil pan had no sludge. We think we got a lucky used engine. We are now installing new cam belt pulleys, tensioner, water pump, etc. Banjo screen will be deleted. The turbo looks very good, no side play and spins just fine. Again, the TSB directs the Dealer that they "should". You can read the Legacy GT forum and others on wasted turbos. Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.

I appreciate the note on the 1.5 hours (the trouble banjo screen)... that is what I was searching for. However, I need to get a printed copy out of Subaru's official hours statement. I found out (got a used engine in my shop and the trashed engine is out in the car), the banjo is located on the forward side of the turbo. A pita to reach but I now see it can be done. And, here is nice write up http://www.iwsti.com/forums/diy-mods-and-installations/118474-banjo-union-bolt-removal-re-install.html It is not a matter of what a TSB is, nor whether a Dealership 'feels' it has to abide by it. Its what it communicates. Subaru's has a check box on the top that says: IMPORTANT - All Service Personnel Should Read and Initial in the boxes provided. I'd say that is a concise communication. This is the manufacturer's formated document. What the manufacturer uses to 'offically' communicate a notice to its franchies. What is critical in the underlying discussion here is when does "should" happen. Frankly, the TSB is very concise. It goes beyond "you may want to know about a problem". It goes beyond "this might a problem". It clearly spells out that oil changes need to be more often, AND the banjo screen needs to be checked. The statement "if the condition of the oil is questionable or as to when the last oil change was performed", further clarifies the cause and affect. You can toss the Caveat emptor (buyer beware) on the table However, if you know there is a potentional issue and you don't take action (the "should") then you are in fault. What I mean by "you know" is the Dealer and the manufacturer. The general or average car owner, whether that be a new car or used car, can only do so much research with regard to potential issues with a used car. Average people research, in the past, Consumers Mag, and today Edmunds or other online sources. They do not dig down into the Legacy GT forum and read the rants. For exampe, Edmunds rates the 2005 Legacy with 5.25 stars, that is almost as good as it gets. Subaru has always had a good rating. This is our 2nd by the way. In summary, this 50k mile blown engine vehicle (blown because the turbo tossed its cookies in the oil pan), is in very good to excellent condition otherwise. The selling Dealer spoke highly of it. The selling Dealer did their full pre sales inspection and an oil change, however they did not document a 1.5 hour banjo bolt check; frankly if I was the selling Dealership and I read all the rants on the Subaru forums with issues on turbos in the 2.5 I would yank out every banjo and inspect them before putting the cars on the lots. But that is me. And I'd say it might take a court order to get all the records; however that is another topic. Susequent to the purchase, another Dealer replaced some leaky oil gaskets (might have been cam covers and some seal) but did not do an oil change. The subsequent Dealer never asked the history nor asked if we ever checked the banjo filter. However there is a TSB that clearly states "should". I disagree that because the vehicle is "used" that the Buyer is a fault for not doing 100% 'due dilegence' . A car Dealer is the expert on the product they sell. There is an implied warranty the vehicle can be driven normally (by the way it was driven and maintained normal, and there are no engine mods; stock). However, if you want to debate, let's debate the word "should" in the TSB further. For the moment though, the simple 1.5 hour to R&R a banjo bolt is the 2nd shot from the smoking gun.

Stop? Are you the moderator? Read the TSB again 1) "In any case, it is recommended...." 2) "In addition,....should be checked..." That is all quite concise english. Whom gets TSBs? Does the car manufacturer stiplulate that a car owner must keep track of TSB's. ? How easy is it for a car owner to find the complete set of service records? I find fault with some dealer(s), while some I find are fanstastic. As the saying goes..... Sales sells the first car and Service sells the second. Yes, I did talk to Subaru corporate. Most of the discussion centered around the word "should". The 7 hours was quoted to me by a Dealer Service Tech. The .3 hours for a oil change was quoted by another Dealership; hence why I'd like to see it in writing. And, another Dealership qouted non synthetic while another insisted on synthetic. Just because this is my first post on this forum don't let it annoy you. This is a discussion and if you have something positive in terms of OP..."specific flat rate time or dealer suggested time (published/official) for a Subaru mechanic to do an oil change on a 2.5 turbo vs a normally aspirated model, for year 2005" I'd enjoy seeing it.

Fairtax4me.... "A TSB is basically just an informative bulletin with no action required." Yes and No. Although a Dealer (franchise) may present an argument that they are not compelled to do a procedure noted by Subaru (designer and manufacturer), Subaru insists otherwise. Obviously you cannot expect a Dealer to absorb the additional 7 or so hours of labor to check the Banjo screen with every oil change. And, naturally you can imagine the look on a car owner's face when the Dealership's Service Advsior tells the customer its going to cost them $700 to $1,000 for the oil change because they want to inspect the Banjo filter because they "should". Subaru's TSB allows the Dealership to point the finger at Subaru, at the same time Subaru is pointing the finger at them. Leaving the car owner wondering why they are the ones getting the finger. 1) The original Owners Manual TSB clearly states "Turbocharged engines ........it is recommended that the engine oil and filter be changed every 3,750 miles." If I recall, wasn't the original oil service interval suggested something like 5,000 miles? A car owner, relying on the original published service interval assumes they are complying with the manufacturer's recommendations so long as they are not exceeding that interval. Subaru's original published service interval "implies" this. Subaru and Dealerhships now insist that oil change interval is less than originally published and they cite the TSB. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, hence if TSB is tossed on the table as the supporting document to infer car owners must do an oil change earlier than originally stipulated, the same document cites that the banjo screen and oil line should/shall be inspected to insure it is not clogged. And, typically car manufacturers state that certain services or procedures 'should' be performed by the Dealer, hence the car owner relies on the Dealer to perform such services. 2) TSB's come in different flavors; some are published to give a heads up to the Dealers of odd issues, some suggest the Dealer's should look at things, and some recommend they must do something. I read the subject TSB to as follows 'there is an issue with the turbo models that have a filter which can prevent the turbo from receiving proper lubrication and if it does not get it the turbo can become damaged (and the engine as well). You shall inspect the banjo screen regardless'. I read the TSB and I assume that a Dealership will do this. I also assume that the cost to this is assumed by either Subaru or the Dealer, and in the least I assume the Dealership will advise me why they did or did not check the screen. The 'assume' means I consider there is an implied warranty with this vehicle; meaning Subaru has implied the vehicle will continue to drive down the road so long as the Dealerhship's "should" check the banjo screen. Although the TSB implies that Dealerships should check the banjo screen, however not concisely stated at each oil change (we can play with grammar), it is stated clearly that in cases where "the condition of the oil is questionable or as to when the last oil change was performed". This later statement implies that it is the responsiblity of the Dealer to verify the quality of the oil, as well as the history of oil changes. And, the later statement does not imply it is up to the car owner to bring up this subject at the time of service; the burden is on the Dealer. Unfortunately today, for a car owner, obtaining the complete documened history car repairs is difficult. For example, I asked the Subaru dealership where our vehicle was purchased for a print out of the history. They only offered the repair order they did when they accepted the vehicle in on a trade in and peformed the mininal pre-sales lot inspection, which did include an oil change but no mention of the banjo filter nor oil supply pipe noted in the TSB. The Dealership stated they could only provide the service record they initiated because the previous car owner's records were considered confidential; I had asked if they could block out the previous car owner's personal information however they were unwilling to do this. Burden of proof of compliance or non compliance of the "should" TSB "can" reside with the Dealer. 3) So with all of this in mind, we assume that Subaru has given an implied warranty that any used vehicle sold will drive down the road, provide there are proper oil inspections, oil changes, and banjo screen and oil supply pipe inspections, ...... because the TSB implies that when the vehicle is brought to a Dealer for oil service the Dealer has inspected the Banjo filter and Oil Supply pipe at some time. The question is when did they do it?

Istevens. I guess you would have to ask if Subaru removed the oil screen from future designs. I do not not know what the % of failure rate was/is, nor do I know what the MTBF is on the design of this motor. However, if an owner has a clear record on oil changes, a turbo blows because of bearing failure related to oil flow issues with the banjo screen, then you have to ask when is it time to 'should' the screen, before failure or after failure. In our particular case it was a 40k mile vehicle sold by Subaru Dealerhip, oil changes were every 3-4k miles while we have owned it, and it tossed the cookie at 50K miles (just 10k miles and 9 months after buying the car), and the dip stick was checked 1 week before the blow out. Hence, you might say the turbo could have failed for another issue not related to lack of oil flow. If you have a wide range or depth of experience and knowledge relating to this model engine's mode of turbo failure please post it. I'd be interested in what you have (I have already spent many weeks reading most of the Subaru forums).

TSB 02-103-107 states the banjo screen “.... should be checked to make sure it is not clogged or restricted....” I guess it comes down to your interpretation of the word “should”. Should comes from middle English to mean “obliged to” or “ought to”. Some courts interpret “shall” as “should”. If you want to play with that meaning then “should” is mandatory. Such as, you should drive on the correct side of the road.... or else... I called a local Subaru Dealer and asked what is their official time for an oil change on the subject motor. I was told .3 hours (about 18 minutes; quicker than Jiffy Lube I guess). I then asked if the procedure included inspection of the banjo screen and I was told “no”. I asked; if the TSB says “it should be checked” why were they not checking it. They said they only checked the screen if they felt there were suspect reasons to do so, and they also stated their interpretation of the TSB wording of “should” does not mean it is mandatory. I asked them what is the time to check the banjo screen and they said about 7 hours. I then called Subaru Customer Support and asked about whether my Dealership “should” be checking the screen. I was told that their interpretation of the TSB and its wording is that they are recommending that the Dealership’s check the screen, but they don’t have to. Given the fact that the original Owner’s Manual recommended oil change time was cut in half based on the various TSB’s, and I’m not yet aware, for the moment, if Subaru mailed out a notice to the original car owners, or if a “sticker” or Owner’s Manual addendum was created, and Subaru and all Dealerships are aware of the nature of oil issues and the design plugging up the banjo screen, you have to wonder what “should’ be going on. Whether you want to view the issue of trashed turbo’s and engines as caused by a poor design or lack of proper maintenance is subjective. However, from a marketing standpoint, not properly resolving the issue, is both a big ticket issue for Subaru as well as a PR nightmare. Granted the brand and performance has a following, at a price it seems.

Wow! Frankly I did not expect anyone would read or respond. And, I want to thank you all for responding! Concisely, this is not about how hard the oil change is, what needs to changed or done, for the moment. The question is, specifically, what does Subaru note the time should be. If there was a flat rate time, what did Subaru publish, officially, for the oil change on the 2.5 turbo and non turbo for the Legacy's. I know this might sound a bit of an odd question, but so far 1 Lucky Texan has the 'smoking gun' award. I need the 'official' in writing time Subaru published!

I was wondering if anyone has the specific flat rate time or dealer suggested time (published/official) for a Subaru mechanic to do an oil change on a 2.5 turbo vs a normally aspirated model, for year 2005. If there are any mechanics or techs presently working at a Subaru dealer out there, retired can chime in too, I'd love to hear what the actual official published time from the Subaru factory. Thanks in advance