sublute

According to Haynes I am right. 1 does 1-2 and 3 does 3-4

I'm trying to find if the ignition primary lead 1 or 3 corresponds to what cylinders.... I would make sense if lead 1 fired 1-2 and 3 fired 3-4, but I'm not counting on that....

All your help and input is good. I should slow the sweep down a little so I might be able to see clearer. I have to keep one eye on my daughter, though...

OK, I scoped 1 and 2 injector and they look the same on the scope, a short dip consistant with your description. For kicks, I flashed the timing light at the scope and it looks like the wire is sparking just before the dip... It should dip just after, right? I'd have to do it again to be sure.

I've got a 1k 10watt resistor here... I'll try it when I can get out there.

I've got voltage (~12VDC)on the yellow lead of 1,2,3 and stopped , again 4 is really hard to reach.

I tried real quickly to get a voltage from the harness to gnd and got no voltage. I will double check this now I know it should be the yellow lead. I have to go pick my daughter up from preschool, so I'll try to do this when we get back.

When I'm checking for a voltage on the injector, I am looking for a DC voltage across the two leads in the harness, right? If so, I'm getting no voltage on injector #1 when I crank it. Ignition on, of course. Should the injector be hooked up and back probed?

Yes, plenty of gas... I checked the fuel lines with a photo before I took it apart... I checked this as I was putting it together. I also took the feed line off and obseved the gas flow into a container. I'm getting wires hooked up to check the injection/spark relationship. I'm going to check the quality of the spark as I have the remote switch hooked up now. Before I was observing from the drivers seat... Yes, I was just saying to myself that it must be something so simple or bazarre. Simple makes me look just that and bizarre I can deal with. It tests the power of reasoning and logic....(silent scream....)

Couldn't I use a timing light and DMM on the injector to see if spark and injection is co-ordinated. The injection should happen before spark right?

Thanks again for all your responses. automatic trannie and as I was cranking it was 20 BTDC and as I continued, it seemed to advance to 30. I will check this again First let me say again, I think the timing belt is on just fine. When I put it on, I was very careful and when I checked it again after much cranking, all the marks on the crank and cams line up, it's just marks on the belt are one tooth to the right all around. It's all relative? see photo's on earlier post. If I took the belt off and moved it one tooth to the left and all the cams and crank stayed in the same position, it would be the same... Am I thinking wrong on this? I still do have the question why it is one tooth to the right... I couldn't have mixed up the injector connectors. I only ever had one off at a time. I'm going to scope the injector signal/ cam relationship today and throw in the old plugs. I really haven't gotten around to getting a code reader as I was under the impression from posts that none were produced during cranking/ no start condition. If this is wrong, then I'll try to get one. Compression- #1-175 #3-165 #2-173 #4-I just couldn't get the plug out on the night I was doing it. I was getting tired and sick. (sick and tired, too) I tested 3 times for each cyl. and the numbers were consistent. I didn't have the throttle open when I did the test. Is this going to produce bad results?

So the 20-30 deg BTDC is not good. Could the ECU be erroneously advancing it? What else could cause this?

I burnt an old cheap (and I mean cheap) remote switch up. I then replaced it with a wall lamp switch. I guess a momentary switch would be safer... So far I just used this for getting the timing marks back in position. I guess if it happened to start!!! while testing, that could be bad for the starter??? I'm thinking I should pull the new plugs, dry the cylinders out and try the old plugs??? I was under the impression that if the car doesn't start, then there are no error codes? Is a data stream still happening? I could check Autozone to see if the "rent" a scan tool. I'm still scratching my head, but there is almost a hole there now...

These plugs are the platinum ones....so, $40+ bucks.... Are plugs toast if they are soaked in gas??? At one point, I took them out, blew them out with compressed air, and dried them out with a 500 watt heat lamp. I also fitted a rubber tube to the compressed air and blew out each cylinder to clear any gas. I'm sure they must be full of gas again... Should I repeat? I could try the old plugs in there. I used anti-seize compound on the plugs and wiped it off in case that was causing a problem with grounding... I checked the spark with old plugs,with new plugs and compared it with an old plug from this car on the '92 Loyale. It doesn't have the waste spark, so slightly different... The old Loyale ran just fine even on 3 cyl... well, a little rough. The scope is dual trace, so I could check the injector timing. I'd have to find out what voltage the injector sees when "on". The ignition switch would have to be on and rotate by hand, right? Each trigger on the cam should turn an injector on for one cyl. at the same time?? There is a Viper 500 security system in this thing. Is there any way this could be involved? If it is armed, and I try to start it, the starter doesn't run... Do they have any other interlink??? straws.... How do I know the Idle air control is working properly? idle air control has battery voltage in the center lead of the harness and measures 8.7 and 8.9 ohms across 1-2 and 2-3. of the unit. Maybe the ECU needs to be looked at, too...

So, the thing that is off so far is the timing which seems to be 10-20 degrees ahead. This was done with the ignition on and a remote switch turning the engine. What could be the cause of this? Timing belt on correctly... The crank and cam sensors are blipping, the temp sensor shows the proper resistance for ambient temp ~ 50 degrees ---4.85k ohms TPS seems to be OK? I got a 5.12 reference voltage and a voltage range from .39 dcv closed to 4.26. dcv open. idle air control has battery voltage in the center lead of the harness and measures 8.7 and 8.9 ohms across 1-2 and 2-3. measurements on the coil pack are nominal and I get spark on plugs when removed. plugs are wet when I remove them, I hear the injectors clicking. I've looked at every possible connection. I could take the valve covers off and make sure I got the proper cams in place. I was very careful to put them in their proper place I don't think I screwed that up (I didn't take photos before putting the covers on...), but I'm grasping at straws. What else can I check. MAF?

Here are pics. the drivers side in and ex cam alignment is not very clear, but the double hash marks line up perfectly...

OK, I rotated the engine to make the timing marks on the crank shaft and 4 cams line up with the corresponding case marks. It took a while to get it there. I used a remote switch, rotating with the starter. When all these marks on the crank and 4 cams are lined up, all the belt marks are one tooth further clockwise... All marks on the belt are in proper position, just one tooth past. That should be OK. So, in other words, if I took the timing belt off and left althe crank and cams in the same position and just moved the t-belt back one tooth, it would be just the same. I'll take photo's and post. I checked compression and all the numbers are good. Compression- #1-175 #3-165 #2-173 #4-I just couldn't get the plug out on the night I was doing it....

Hello. I took the t-belt covers off and connected the crank and cam shaft sensors to the 'sillyscope. I observed each blip as each trigger point passed the sensor. All seems OK. I'm going to rotated the t-belt around to see if the marks line up perfectly. I may be able to do this shortly. I'm on daughter duty...

OEM part # 806917070 from 1stSubaru is what I just installed...

It seemed like it was at 20 BTDC then went to 30? I'd have to double check that. Obviously that is off. I'm using the notch on the pulley. It has been highlighted in white by someone... I was trying to notice a pattern in the blips and count them and establish the patterns, but cranking by hand is too slow and it seems like by remote switch it was too fast... This last time I was using an analog meter on 2.5V range which is the lowest. I put an oscilliscope on it but couldn't get it on a sweep so I could look at the pattern. My ineptitude with a scope... either it was too fast a sweep or too slow. I have an old scope and not that much experience with it.

Well, I hope you folks haven't given up on me. I checked the cam sensor and it blipped and then I checked the timing while cranking the engine. I was reading 30 deg. before TDC?? Is that off? I checked with the light on all four wires and got flashes. Anyway, the ignition circuit seems to be working.?? Should I be checking the belt to see if it has skipped some teeth?

Hello, Yes, I'm pretty sure the timing belt is right on. I took it off and put it on a second time (last thread...) just to make sure. I'm going to check the cam shaft sensor again...

Hello, the car was not running for 3 weeks while I did the head gasket job. The gas should be good. It was running before. The plugs are wet when I pull them. No, I haven't tried starting fluid.

OK, in case you thought I'd gotten it started...... After a few days rest with holiday to get over the crud.... TPS seems to be OK? I got a 5.12 reference voltage and a voltage range from .39 dcv closed to 4.26. dcv open idle air control has battery voltage in the center lead of the harness and measures 8.7 and 8.9 ohms across 1-2 and 2-3. the coolant temp. sensor measures 4.85k ohms which seems to be proper in regard to the ambient temperature of ~ 50 degrees according to the chart in Haynes. I have been all over this engine double checking connections. I replaced the plastic "y" connector in the PVC/oil separator hose. Any ideas of what I should check next?

When I had the intake manifold off, I sprayed gum-out carb cleaner on the back side of the plate and in the throttle bore to clean out the varnish type deposits that seemed like normal build up. I then wiped it out with a rag. Nothing super aggressive. Just as far as I could reach with the rag over my finger. I did a little on the injector ends, too, being careful of the injectors. Again, I wiped out with a rag, being carefull of the injectors. I didn't get any spray on them or spray them directly. The area directly around them was clean. I guess I will need to check the TPS? and all other sensors. There is an engine not starting checklist in the 97 OEM manual. I guess I should start going down the list... I'm trying to get over a wicked cough today that is being passed around my daughter's pre-school by all those little incubators of germs...