subynut

Last time I drove it, I noticed it has a hard time holding 25mph in 5th gear. It used to be able to maintain that speed and as long as you didn't give it too much throttle, it would accelerate from 25 in 5th - not fast, but it didn't mind it. Now, it says "Don't even THINK about it!" I'm sure Subaru didn't design it to run that slow in 5th, but it certainly used to be able to do it. My 86 wagon could do 25 in 5th with either the original ea82 or with the ej22 I had in it and the rpms in 5th are identical between the two cars. Just a few more pieces of the puzzle

Hey, your almost as far from the utah border that I am from the mexico border! Welcome back to the land of the roo! I've got a F350 for my wheeling rig and a 87 GL wagon that I'm working on - can't make up my mind if I want a ez30d or a ej22 on propane....choices choices!

So, it IS the computer. That's the pits. I've wondered about it for quite some time, but those things are not cheap for a test, ya know? Well, it looks like the outback will have to live in non-emissions testing country for the rest of it's life and will gut the cats since the engine will be running rich (limp home) most of the time. Which is fine, as long as we stay here.

Well, turns out the neutral switch is a dealer item. I checked the electrical properties and they operate the same. So, I swapped the connectors. Went for a test drive and ....blink blink... 2 counts each - misfire 3 and misfire 4. Shows up over 2800 rpm. Only difference is that it drops the idle sooner and the drivability seems a little better. Still hiccups though. Strange thing, that switch was shot. Well, on to more diagnosing.....

Besides, isn't that part of what makes a Subaru a Subaru? Unless your looking to loose traction/handling for mileage, then FWD is better, but for everything else, AWD FTW!

My 86 wagon had really bad understeer in FWD, in 4WD it was better, but still not great. It wasn't till I installed the rear LSD did the car become balanced in 4WD and did whatever I told it to do at 40-50 on dirt. In FWD, I wouldn't feel safe over 35, in 4WD w/Rear LSD, 50ish was my limit, but I think the car could have gone faster. I've driven a neon and an escort sedan in the dirt and the neon was understeer happy while the escort was very tail happy - both FWD. I also rode in a first gen 2dr ponitac sunfire - that was quite tail happy on gravel. He had quite a time keeping that thing straight. All depends on the suspension geometry and weight distribution, I guess. My truck, Ford 1-ton with open rear diff, is fine till I hit washboards then it's all over the place. Strange, sometimes the tail goes first, other times it understeers madly till the front catches and then the rear comes around. It's quite fun! Mom and Dad's Legacy Outback is rock solid on any roads. Although, on dirt, the tires have this strange attraction to sharp rocks that put holes in them. An interesting note is when a tire goes on that car, the reaction is much much much milder than on my 86. Personally, I would check all the bushings, top hats, struts first and make sure all is ok. Afterwords, might want to look into a swaybar kit and see if that helps with the understeering. You can only do so much with the suspension. The other thing you must remember is it's a FWD with a very torquey motor - doesn't take much throttle to get the front tires to spin on slippery surfaces. Ever tried driving a FWD EJ22 powered EA82 wagon on wet roads? Tire spin city in 1st, 2nd and part of 3rd! At only 1/3 throttle. Pop it in 4wd and away we go! I think going to RWD will make it too tail happy. For the same reason it's so "skiddery" as you put it. Too much torque for only 2WD. Also, with it being a sedan, the wheelbase is much shorter so the reaction time of when the tail brakes loose and when you compensate is also much much shorter. I started on a FWD with heavy understeer (86 4wd wagon) - I tried converting to RWD, it was fun, but still understeered badly till the rear broke loose - crazing thing is that was with a EJ22 in it. I then switched to a low powered RWD (Kia sportage) STILL understeered (but awesome off road) till the rear finally broke loose, then oversteer with no power to back it up {ever watched Initial D when Tak raced that white FC? He almost put the 86 in a guardrail because he didn't have enough power to point the car in the right direction.} scary, it is. I then went to a AWD XT6 - most well balenced car I've ever drove! I now have my Ford truck which is VERY tail happy in rain, snow, mud, and gravel, but again, I got 400 ft/lbs from 1800 to 3000 rpm at the rear. Laws of physics say the tail's gonna spin. AWD - False sense of stability? No, I wouldn't say that. It's more of you need to be more in tune with the car and know the subtle feedback that the car is telling you to know when traction is low. Having driven all three drivetrain types, I still prefer AWD out of all of them for the street.

Yup. We haven't had one like this in a LONG time AND it landed on a weekend so I could go out and play! I think the mountains got 8 or 12 inches last night. There were spots that were quite deep. Great fun, though. I'm curious how much the Chiricahua Mountains got since they're higher than the Huachucas which is where I was. Depending on when church finishes, I might go out there tomorrow afternoon...we'll see..

So, then the EJ25 is a solid lifter engine, I take it, yes? This is interesting. Oh my, didn't realize the pics were THAT big. Gonna have to fix it. Much better. One note about the neutral switch is that the old one definitely has a worn spot on the end of the sensor.

Ah more data. Will check that sensor. It was COLD this morning! YES, That's SNOW in southern Arizona! Well, I TRIED to swap the neutral switch, but the parts guy ordered the reverse light switch! So, I will have to wait some more and get the right part. One side note: the only difference between the two connectors is that the key for the connectors are on opposite sides and thier color. I did drive it some more and it's definitely in the 3000-3500 range that will trigger the codes. I tried driving in 4th at 55mph which puts the rpms at ~3200 rpms and 30 seconds later....blink blink. Stopped and check the codes: misfires on 3&4 two counts each. On another note, after I reset the computer, I went to start her back up to head for home and it acted like something broke - kinda like a "reer oof!".....odd... try again and alls happy. I'll check the other sensors and the encoder wheels to see if there is something amiss. But for now, it's time to eat!

I have not done that, but will do it once the weather calms down. (had no power from 6:30 till about 11 last night - really bad winds!) I have watched it in complete darkness and have had my hands in the area to feel any leakage (not the best way since those sparks are strong and really hurts when you get hit) and did not see or feel anything, my mechanic did some testing and he did not detect any spark leaks either. From listening to the engine, there is a very small stumble, but all our Subarus have a minimum of a small stumble....in fact, my truck has a small stumble and it's got 10 cylinders! During one time while letting the engine warm up via idle, I did have the engine light blink at me while it was just idling - same codes. I have not had it happen since. Will let you guys know.

Yes, I had them checked. 3&4 were fine, 1&2 were out of spec, so, go figure! But, no difference. I'm going to inspect the neutral switch and it's wiring when the weather eases up: 40-60MPH winds and temps in the 40s makes it difficult to work on the car.:-\ Good thing though, it may snow on the weekend so, in the mean time, I'll get to go romping in my truck!

Emily! Long time no hear! I'll look into the IAC to see if that helps the funky cold idle. NSS....that would be interesting if that is what was giving us the grief. Makes you wonder how much the ECM assumes, eh? EPA controlled fuel injection - works great, when it works!:-\ As I kinda figured, the MAF didn't make any difference. But, I had it laying around and figured why not? Will keep you guys and gals updated Thanks, Ted

97 Legacy Outback: EJ25, Manual, has EGR.

Thanks Dean, I will look into that unit some more. I wonder if it is just for Subarus of if it is universal....gonna have to check it out. As far as the bucking, it does not change whether it is warmed up or not. If the air temp is cold, it's worse, but not engine temp. I swapped the MAF with a known good one and reset the computer and will see how it runs. Thanks, Ted

Does anybody know if there is a DIY device that allows you to monitor all the parameters and sensor readings while your driving in a OBD-II Subaru? If I had some sort of data loging maybe I can see what is going on and get a better idea in diagnosing this quirk. Thanks Ted

Well, after talking to the machinist, he said it's a spun main bearing that is blocking off a oil passage and the squeaking sound I hear is that crank bearing/connecting rod assembly running dry. I'm going to price out parts and go from there.

^ Yup.

I'd go after that knock sensor first, then the O2. When was the last time the plugs/wires/pcv were done? Is it running rough? Quirky idle? How's the power output? What kind of primary driving? Maybe it's begging for a nice run out in the country.

The thing that concerns me is that it won't go beyond 2000 rpm. It just doesn't stumble and die like a lack of fuel or spark - it stops dead in it's tracks like you put the brakes on and locked up the tires. Also, It doesn't smoke at all - which is odd. Just sounds absolutely terrible. I think I am going to talk to my machinist and see what he says.

Yeah, a serious bummer....never goes easy.....oh twell, that's the story of my life. :-\ Anyways, since I'm going to need an engine, what year span can I pick from? It's the EJ251 SOHC with 10:1 compression There are no 2002 engines in the entire state, however, there are a few 2003 with ~73k on them for about $1900 with a 90 day warranty and they're 170 miles away! That's half the cost of an engine from CCR with an 1/8 of the warranty. OR What is the extent of damage when an engine starves for oil and stops suddenly? What would need to be replaced? Or do I not want to know?

It all comes down to maintenance and listening to your car. I've cooked a EA82 due to not knowing what the temp limits were, my brother killed a 1st gen EJ22 due to a bad oil pump and ignoring it, and I've got a phase II ej25 with rod knock from the previous owner not watching the oil level. My parents phase 1 EJ25 had the leaking head gasket issue that they ran for 25K miles till the oil contaminated the coolant and locked the thermostat closed and cooked the engine. So far, my experience with engine failures were due to owner error, not Subaru's error. I like the EA82 and Phase 1 EJ22 for their non-interfearance design. However, the only reason I like them is because of my own lazyness of not wanting to replace the t-belts unless they are broken. However, if I DID replace them when they were due, it would prevent one less tow home. Who's fault is that? Mine. {stupid depraved human nature} So, in other words, the EJ25 with the latest head gaskets is just as reliable as the EJ22 as long as you do the regular maintenance and catching any issues before they become catastrophic.

That's what I get for assuming.....she said that it just died, so I figured it was the t-belt. Boy, was I wrong! Pulled the cover off to take a peek and the belt was intact! So, I tried to turn it by hand and it took some rocking, but I got it to spin by hand, tried to start it - very stubburn, but it did eventually start. However, there was a rather loud knock coming from the middle of the engine. It idled a little rough, although when I tried to rev it, with a very loud squeek squeek it stops dead in it's tracks if I get it over 2000. Checked the oil - off the dipstick. I put 2 quarts in just to get it to register - made no difference. I do believe this engine has suffered lack of oil syndrome! Looks like an engine swap. If there is one thing that kills these awesome cars it's lack of maintenence.

The timing belt lets go in a 02 outback with a manual. What would the damage be? Valves, heads, anything else?

Ahhh, but that tells me I am not alone! Yeah, I don't understand how when it's being stupid, the light is out, but when things "feel" normal is when the computer has a fit.

Ok, I swapped the coil pack from the EJ22 off my wagon and the idle is a little smoother than before, but I couldn't do any more diagnosing due to time constraints. What's the difference between the diamond coil pack and the Hitachi coil pack? I did hook up a vacuum gauge to it and it's pretty stable at about 15.5" It has just a little bit of flutter when the cooling fan kicks on/off. I revved the engine and held it there in the RPM range that the misfire code would trip and the vacuum is solid - no fluctuations whatsoever - ~17" depending on how much throttle I was using and, of course, the check engine light stayed off. I did notice a slight valve tap from both haeds, donno if that could cause a misfire or not. Does the EJ25 DOHC have solid lifters or hydraulic? Mom and my sister are taking the car to Phoenix, ~170 miles away, wish I could drive so I could gather more data, but I must work that day. Some more data to chew on while I diagnose this quirky thing. Thanks, Ted