superu

Ahhh. I see it's not so simple. Hmmm, so my first instincts of getting an OB tranny were pretty good. Now to refine and figure if its 1st gen or 2nd gen OB, and how foresters would also factor in. . . AND to complicate it all, i'm interested in an Australian Forester transmission, maybe from an XT, but not positive yet. . . So to compensate for my taller tires in an otherwise stock 95 3.90 5MT, I'd be best to get the whole package (i.e. tranny and rear diff) from a rig that had a taller tire setup, like an OB or Forester? AND just swapping my front and rear diffs for say 4.11 or 4.44 wouldn't do so much as a whole tranny final geared as such (remembering all gears are more set for the setup I have created)? I do have the Subaru Manual tranny chart (but can't seem to attach it) and have found gearing from earlier generation manuals.. So I could review the 1-5 gearing of what I think I'm looking at (5MT forester XT) vs. my leggo... This thread is clarifying my questions about final drive as relates to 1-5 gearing (which i hadn't considered in my thoughts before)... Hmmm:rolleyes:

Interesting... sounds like this would've solved my friends delemma of 4.44 5MT into his 02 WRX. . . (if that's the 180 to 160 marriage application? If not, I think its a similar concept of fixing spline count differences as with EA tranny swaps into EJ rigs, no?) What are 180's from vs. 160s? (I'm just not that into the numbers, similarly with body codes, like SF, BD, etc. . ) Are 180's from 4.44 trannies, or strictly an STi, highe HP axle? vs 160's are those old gen axles, like EA82s or are those also early second gen, like my 95 legacy? Thanks, -mark-

Will a SF Forester transmission mate to a '95 legacy EJ22? I think it's 4.44 final drive (i know I'll have to change the rear diff too), but are the axle splines compatible from SF Fozzy to 95 legacy hubs?? I have a friend who almost put a 4.44 5MT into his '02 WRX, but there were axle spline differences meaning he'd have to swap his hubs and rotors, etc to make it work.. I wonder if this Fozzy gear box will give me those woes too or if would be a bolt on swap. I understand the bolt count from motor to tranny may be different (i.e. 4 bolt on my motor to a 6 or 8 bolt on the tranny) but those on my block should mate to some of those on the new tranny. . . questions, comments, concerns, things to look out for or be aware of? ? ? thanks! -mark- (eBay, checkit: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230509549984&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

That sums up what i was thinking! Thanks subaru360! Grossgary: Good point. i do have that MT spreadsheet and have also found similar gearing info from the EA82s (for when i was thinking of a 4x4 swap)... But doesn't the final drive calculate with ALL the gears such that cars with the same geared 1-5 but different final drives would have slightly different driving characteristics? So to compensate for taller tires, should i look at the gearing of cars with stock taller tires, like OB? I think the only difference b/t their 5MT and mine is the final drive. I think my MY 95 had 4.11 as an option, but my rig is with 3.90 final... I think the gearing for 4.44's are different since i think they come in 6MT, maybe some 5MTs out of GTs or FXTs (as subaru360 indicated). Renob123: are you driving a WRX or STi? I think they, while having 6 speeds, are also 3.90 to give high top end, while the HP and turbo kick up the lower end acceleration. Hmmmm, so what you're saying is i could keep my 5MT's gearing and swap out its front diff for a 4.44 diff, and oc caurse the rear for a 4.44 diff also? I have a friend that was going to put a 4.44 in his 02 WRX, but there were different spline counts so he'd have to change his hubs and rotors, etc. etc. Thus he bailed on that idea. I really am looking for a plug-an-play 4.11 (4.44 might be a bit nicer i think) hmmmmm

So I want to clarify something about gearing in my head regarding final drive and what it means in terms of general performance. So as motors have gotten more powerful through the generations from EA71 81 to EA82 to EJ22, EJ25, EJ20 and EJ25T gearing has also been changing. Older rigs had 3.70 (maybe different even earlier than early 70s gears, I don't know) then 3.90 and 4.11, and the SVX and or RX (I think) had something weird and unique, but finally i guess there is 4.44 gears. So there's talk of taller gears and shorter gears. Am I correct that as the number gets 'larger' the gear gets shorter? So 4.44 is shorted than 3.90? And what does this mean in terms of output to the ground? Would taller? gears like 3.70 and 3.90 be set up for top end, or lower RPM at higher highway speed, but shorter? gears like 4.11 and 4.44 be higher RPM at high speed bu more torque-y to the wheels? So, for example, given a NA EJ25 running 3.90 5MT, would that have slightly lower RPM at 70 in 5th than the same motor running a 3.90 5MT at 70 in 5th (all things being equal, like tire diameter, model, weight, etc.)? Am I on the right track here? If not please show me the light. Here's what's fueling my questions, and it's been mulling around in my head for a few years, touched on here and there by this thread or that thread but maybe not ever so directly approached. . . I'm running a NA EJ22 5MT with 3.90 final drive. I've upped my tires from stock 185x70x14s to 27" At's. I've done some calculators online and think to compensate for the increased tired diameter (and maybe weight), I'd need like 4.54 gears to regain "stock" driving characteristics. To compensate for these taller tires I think I can regain more stock-like driving (e.g. stop to go acceleration) characteristics by going with an Ob transmission (5MT 4.11 final drive), or maybe even 4.44 final drive, although I think those trannies may be higher $$ compared to first gen OB 5MTs (and some have even said first gen legacies ran 4.11 final in their 5MT)... ? ? ? hep me clarify . . . thanks!

zyewdall, Believe you me, I've been toying with that for like 5 1/2 years!!!! But with 27" tires i now need shorter gearing, like 4.11, maybe 4.44. . . the 3.90 makes it a little, er, a LOT sluggish with the taller heavier tires.. But you're right about ease and most bang for the buck if a tranny swap is in order, particularly when "off road" is mentioned I think an EA-swapped 4x4 into an impreza is the IDEAL rig!!! Light like the old GLs but a higher output motor with gen 2 rigs, PLUS rear gearing and REAL 4x4. I really like the FT AWD when compared to FWD for daily driving and especially when snow and conditions dictate... I'm actually looking into swapping into a DR AWD from australia.. To keep FT AWD and gain a low gear. It's the other best of both worlds.

Hey, thanks for all the feedback!! WOW!! what a PITA, for a guy like me... Yeah, it sounds like a LOT more than I want to or am comfortable getting into for pulling a camper, and some more trail access... I did practically burn out a 1-year old clutch in 5 minutes though, ALREADY, just trying to position the thing uphill in gravel beside our carport, when I had NO problems with our old (now gone) 4EAT 1.8 impreza. Thus the inquiry to switching over to auto. I'm not interested in or have the space for a donor car lying around, nor (with a new baby) do I have the time, interest, patience or really the tools to do such a job in my "free time" these days But, this IS validation which further substantiates my interest in getting an aussie D/R AWD manual!! :banana: That's been my REAL goal now for a few years, and the auto was like a short-cut and cheaper way to be able to tow better and do some harder wheeling or steeper grades. SO, in short, methinks you all helped further my cause and further justify the D/R AWD hunt.. THANKS!!

Hey Nip, I'm a mostly city/pavement driver (this rig is my daily driver, and now the baby mobile), with FS/maintained dirt roads (when i go to the mts, for hiking, skiing (given appropriate season) , backpacking, access to fun places and things, etc., snow (in season) and some trail stuff, cuz, well, I do live in Moab. . . . Also, we recently got a camper/tenet trailer (to compliment our first baby, now 6 months old), so there'll be some towing regionally with setting up in campgrounds but more use off pavement in forest and BLM settings...

Hmmm, do-able maybe, but doesn't sound like my cup of tea... I'm not too interested in the wiring side of things.. Just looking at pix of what ppl go through for EJ swaps REALLY turns me off Maybe its a lack of experience in that deep of moding or maybe lack of tools, time and luxury to have the car out of commission for so long... I'd be psyched to help or get in on another project like this with other folks WAY more in the know than I, but not so much on my rig as a first go... Thanks for the good info thogh! It helps me stay on my original idea of an aussie D/R AWD... Because truth be told, I'm REALLY a stick shift guy. That way, a stick AND a low gear (similar to 1st in an auto)... More happier for the clutch and me..

Ahh, roger that.

Nice report, sounds good! I have a question for you (knowing you've done a bunch of good retrofitting), haven't you converted a dual range to 4.11? Do I recall correctly you have a red first gen legacy wagon with a dual range swap (running the stock NA EJ22), but also swapped from 3.9 D/R to 4.11 dual range? thanks and nice work hauling an engine swap cross-country! -mw-

(subscribed) I like where you're thinking for this! A guy in another forum did a 98 Fozzy for $500, then cleaned it up NICE, did a second gen fozzy strut swap (got a lift), did ATs, AND blocks. LOOKS GOOD! Anyhoo, i like your idea of an EJ22T in a fozzy with 5MT.

So I have a 5MT in my strut-lifted 95 legacy, running 3.90 final, but I'm thinking of swapping to a 4EAT (probly 4.11, maybe 4.44 final). I think it would be better for towing (particularly backing and positioning a camp trailer off pavement in the woods) and off road (particularly the steeper stuff), but I'm kind of a die hard manual transmission guy. Anyhoo, I'd like driving impressions of basically the same rig across transmissions (like if you've driven a stick outback and an auto outback, etc... in a basically same trimline, model, etc...). ALSO, I've seen folks to the 4EAT to 5MT tranny swap, but I can't really find (through a cursory search) anyone who has gone from stick to auto.

So I have a 5MT in my strut-lifted 95 legacy, running 3.90 final, but I'm thinking of swapping to a 4EAT (probly 4.11, maybe 4.44 final). I think it would be better for towing (particularly backing and positioning a camp trailer off pavement in the woods) and off road (particularly the steeper stuff), but I'm kind of a die hard manual transmission guy. Anyhoo, I'd like driving impressions of basically the same rig across transmissions (like if you've driven different transmissions in a basically same trimline, model, etc...). ALSO, I've seen folks to the 4EAT to 5MT tranny swap, but I can't really find (through a cursory search) anyone who has gone from stick to auto. thanks, -mark- PS, I'm posting similarly in the retrofit forum also..

I love your attention to detail

Your parents own arborwear?!?! :slobber::slobber: I worked in trees in Oregon a few years ago, and my boss (Phil Frazee of Arbor West) knows John? (owner/operator) and sold me on them... They're like Carhartt with a gusseted crotch! Can't beat it, tough as hell and articulated!! :banana: Tree climbing and arboring in the canpoy is FUN!!!! Blake's hitch yo! Anyhoo, i try to get some new ones every couple years, usually looking for the seconds bin.. Yeah!! I will be around in later august (out the first weekend), definitely let me know if you are going to make it down... I can understand not wanting to do 5 hours to SE UT w/o air in August, BUT it'd be SOOO much better with the dual range down here!! You're welcome to camp out in our yard (I'd offerhte spare room, but that's my baby's these days ). Ciao!

Very nice work man!! But with things like this Me thinks "you b@$#ard!!" Power tools are a god-send which I am still lacking! I've been wondering for a while if there's a good 1/2 drive electric inpact wrench, since I ain't got no air tools.. Is this corded or cordless? I think as not often as I do these bigger jobs, I'd be interested in a corded one... What're your impressions of this tool? Again, nice work on the lift and axle fixin'! I can't believe you ahve people throwing dual ranges trannies at you :slobber::slobber: Shewt, put that in the leggo wagon and you'll have a well redone rig, although in the lighter loyale, might be a bit better. cheers, -mark-

Let me pipe in for a second... Gen 2 forester strut assemblies will lift a gen 1 OB. You might be able to use gen 2 FOR springs WITH THEIR (gen 2 FOR) tophats (they have a reducing coil diameter the gen 1 FOR spring doesn't have, thus OB tophats work with gen 1 FOR springs). I think gen 2 FOR assemblies lift gen 1 OBs over an inch, whereas gen 1 FOR coils in OB struts will gain around 3/4 inch over OB suspension... that's all... Yes the OB is higher than the legacy b/c the strut shaft is longer, but the springs are the same (leg vs. OB)...

8-0. . . . NICE work dude!! We should hang out more! I want to play with your tools and your garage when we do a similar project on my rig If only there wasn't the 4.5 hour drive... Good on you with the arborwear G! I knew there was something about you, well besides the subaru thing, that let us get along so well. Again nice work bro, I'm psyched to see and ride in the dual range IMP. I've thought for a long time that would be the ideal rig...

Yes, front right, rear left... looking good! (i mean the struts and springs

That's cool. I was wondering about such big pipe from the manifold out. I was told to keep the "Y" pipe to preserve the backpressure from the manifold through the "Y" pipe, then open it up down stream from the cats (I'd done a cat delete and lost ALL low end, so i put them back on and went 2.25" cat back. . .) I still wonder if I lost some low end with my cat-back exhaust. But i did a few mods at the same time so its tough to tell. Right, I remembered that after posting. So you're going to do OB struts AND FOR springs at the same time right? The intake reonator slows the air coming into the box, therefore slows it all coming into the intake manifold. I've read conflicting info on where to modify on MAF engines and I think the final info from that researcing was to modify the pipe from the MAF to the intake. Clean up the plastic pipe like a cold air intake, but leave the plumbing fore of the MAF... Which would mean leave the intake resonator I guess.. Just pulling that box out of the fender gave my rig a throatier sound and a bit more pep in throttle response... Maybe do a bunch of research before messing with any of it... I forget where i got the most informative info regarding intake stuff... Possibly from NASIOC of all places... Those kats do a lot of modding and have a lot of into... That was the suggestion for a NA 2.2 motor, modify plumbing b/t MAF and intake manifold... OR (also what I was thinking of) pull the resonator out of the fender and pipe it to a snorkle!!! :banana: Just thoughts! Happy lifting dude!! Nice paint job BTW Here is a video of what it sounds like. Yes I got it air born in this video (Landing was hard) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U1-7l8wDqI

AWESOME!! I'm curious too, How does it perform with those headers and the 2.2? Did you do any other intake mods (like the resonater delete from the fender)? nice lookin' rig bro! get some before and after measurements of ground clearance, etc. I'm interested int he front lift from OB struts/springs to OB struts FOR springs (since I haven't gotten my front springs yet TTFN

I (finally) Did it. FOR spring will provide a touch more lift than OB spring (confirmed for rear strut thusfar). I gained about 3/4 inch with gen 1 FOR springs in a gen 1 OB strut: 95 leggo on 98 OB struts and coils (with worn out 27x8.5x14 BFGs) 95 leggo on 98 OB struts and 99 FOR coils (with worn out 27x8.5x14 BFGs) Given the extra half coil in the FOR spring, there may be a slight geometrical difference in the upper spring perch, so I also used FOR tophats, but when side-by side I couldn't eyeball any real difference b/t the FOR and OB tophats... Here's the before profile (when the BFG's were new, 8-10-06) and here's the after profile 6-23-10 and 40,000 miles on the BFGs... I think, to the eye, it looks more like an inch so maybe i had some inconsistency in measuring.. I did the before measuring a couple of months ago, and the before profile pic above is also on slightly uneven ground, slightly. But maybe enough to compress the left rear a touch...

Thanks guys, that's good stuff... Kind of verified what my reason was trying to say. If it had like 60-80K less miles it'd be a no brainer I think... Olnick, its an auto 2.5 Overall the car's in really good shape and was highway miles from a hoods in the woods instructor... My thought is this, yeah lots of miles and doing a HG by helping out a local wrench (making it cheaper for me), fixing steering leak, and of course brakes, etc. etc. I'd still have 250,000 miles on an automatic tranny, which could grenade in a couple months... So thanks for the good thoughts and insight... I'm passing this one.. BUT then there's this other option: a neighbor has a 99 forester S with, "a bad motor".... He said he did the whole timing kit, except the one pulley the dealer told him never goes out. Told him it was a composite and like $500 for the pulley, so he didn't do it, and that's what failed. He's trying to decide if its worth putting another motor in it. I'm telling him I'm interested if he wants to sell it. I'd totally drop like $500 for this forester and drop in another block!! It was his wife's grandparent's car, has the pusher on the front bumper a tow hitch, heated seats and is auto (good for towing our new/used tent trailer has just under 200K I'm kind of all about foresters these days. thoughts on this one??

Just finished putting forester springs in my new KYB GR2s (rear spring swap only thusfar) Here are some rally cross pix: How it started, new to me, in Oct. 2003 Then after some modding (struts, tires, intake, exhaust, bumper, spoiler, clutch, tint,) A climb that reminds me nearly daily why I NEED a low range In the snow at Arches NP: Great looking rigs in here!!