Hank Roberts

I'll move the post-purchase question to a new thread if I don't find one, back to pre-buy advice here

OK, we too are planning to buy a used 2003 Forester X. Automatic, 21k miles. Bever owned a car less than 18 years old before. I know I want to add a tow hitch. Looking at allsubaru, I see these: tow hitch about $183 What else should I think about adding? (And which can I get out of a junkyard, with luck?) Splash guard/mudflaps? $100 Rear sway bar $145 Security upgrade $134 Do the 'bug deflectors' do any real good? Does the 'back window' deflector actually help anything?

It is truly amazing how much can be worn out, on a vehicle with 240k miles -- and how few people know the vehicle well enough to recommend what to check and what to fix _first_ (I haven't yet met anyone expert in long term maintenance and restoration of these wagons). Deferred maintenance adds up, causing a lot of wear on things that should have been fixed as soon as they couldn't be adjusted to specifications (like this week's charm, the screw that holds the bottom of the strut into the steering knuckle -- which if it can't be really tightened lets the strut wobble and enlarges the hole, making the whole front end a little shaky, wearing other parts. It's the little, basic, maintenance for which you need a good old mechanic who's been working on these things since they were new and knows what wears out --- because at this point they are all inventing brand new ways to wear out, that nobody has ever seen before. That takes more cleverness than most mechanics even want to have, particularly for old vehicles. I'm still replacing parts on mine. With my experience -- things breaking one after another -- I'd never put children at risk in it, for family camping trips -- the kids go in a newer vehicle lightly loaded, and I haul the heavy equipment up the steep roads I can crawl along to camp. When it pops out of gear going down hill while I"m relying on engine braking, I'm so far fast enough to get to the brake while still watching for the idiots coming around the corner on the wrong side of the road and not go over the edge and down the cliff to the river. When it starts to vibrate under acceleration til all the digits on the tach look doubled, I can handle that til I get the steering knuckle replaced (thank goodness I found one, and a tire shop that recognized the problem the last three Subaru mechanics missed completely). When the rear brake plate cracked in half I could cope with that. But it's an old, dangerous vehicle and anything could break on it. No question. Too bad nobody made something as good any more recently.

And following up, looks like we'll buy a 2003 Forester X with not quite 21k miles, next week. We fit the 'niche' -- need 4wd for field botany/restoration trips (everyone needs a hobby ...). Good points made above. Never towed before but lately a tent trailer becomes tempting. I just learned someone makes an "off road tent trailer" with high clearance, which would be great.

I'm echoing that question -- I will probably buy a 2003 Forester X next week -- haven't seen it yet, from old family friends, and 6 freeway hours from home. 16" steel wheels. I may well buy six tires. Why six? Here's why I wonder about light truck tires: The way I usually kill tires is by breaking the steel belts on sharp rocks -- I use a nasty forest road 'graveled' with sharp hunks of rock, that was used by logging trucks for one contract then abandoned to public use. If not broken steel belts then sliced up sidewalls are common. The local (50 miles away) tire stores all know that road. I always carry two full sized spares, on every car I've used for 20 years on those roads. I'll have to buy an extra wheel for the '03 Forester. Given all these cautions -- anyone recommend a particular tire? Light truck even possible?

GOOD and important point. My wife's Honda came to her smelling musty, the only fix was taking the A/C apart to soak what could be soaked in bleach and replace the rest -- bleach is the only thing that kills mildew -- was expensive. The mechanic recommended always turning the A/C off the last few driving miles before parking the car. That lets the water that has condensed on the cooling coils drip off and evaporate -- rather than staying beaded up inside when the car's parked, and feeding more mildew.

Is this all there is to the 'cabinair filtration' option that was offered for extra money, when these were new vehicles? Just putting a filter in? Or was there some kind of filter holder that got installed as an option?

Search for "vibration" -- you'll find my yet unsolved issue and several others, lots of choices for possible causes here.

Thanks to the transmission rebuilder, who's been worrying this over and called me this morning, saying -- could the shop that replaced the front axles have just failed to do a front wheel alignment? It wasn't on the invoice. I took it to our reliable tire place for alignment check. They too first suspected a bad new axle (and still may) but found a more immediate problem: They couldn't align the front end -- they found a badly worn steering knuckle -- the socket that holds the bottom of right front strut (not noticed by prior shops, quite visible movement in overlarge hole -- the other shops had thought the top of the strut had dried out but not noticed the bottom was loose). That may explain all of the vibration on acceleration. Heck, it may explain why the right front axle was clicking, may not have needed the axles. Dunno. Tire shop will start by fixing that, when I can leave it with them in a couple of weeks; he said it's safe to do our planned 350 mile trip with it before thent. And if it still shakes after replacing the worn out steering knuckle at the base of the front strut, getting that tight, then aligning/balancing, he'll suspect one of the new axles is bad. For reference: Problem found by: Don's Tire, 820 Gilman, Berkeley 94710-1422. Phone 510-526-0335; fax 510-524-3914. Their expert is Tony. And he's seen the Subaru front end problems before and knows what to check.

EDIT -- suggestion thanks to the transmission rebuilder -- the local shop that put in new axles failed to align the front wheels, apparently didn't notice the 'knuckle' that holds the bottom of one front strut in place was worn out and couldn't be tightened. Found by a reliable tire place. Hey '83, did you check your new "tripod" front axles? What brand were they you got put on your car before it started shaking under acceleration? EDIT -- and did you get your wheels aligned after new axles? It should be part of the job.

Hey -- should this vibration show up with the car on a rack, driving the front wheels? Should it be possible to see what's shaking with the wheels driven but off the ground?

Uh, what's the "IAC"?

Maybe others besides me have similar questions. Feel free to add your own. I've got some parts the previous owner threw in the back of the wagon, because he couldn't remember but thought they came off the Subaru. Recognize this? (Small image) This is flexible black plastic with a hose clip that's on a hinge, and a slot for ... something. http://www.flickr.com/photos/44124371575@N01/165972230/ Picture taken with a flatbed scanner. Coins on the glass for rough idea of size

Compression? I use a tank of 10% ethanol fuel (Union 76, where I live) every now and then if my vehicle's running rough and it may help clean something out a bit, I imagine that it does help reduce dieseling or rough running sometimes (or I'm just superstitious)

Look for "CV joint" or "constant velocity joint" or "front axle" or "DOJ" or "dual offset joint" -- and look on the front axles for the big black rubber corrugated things (2 on each side); if one is split and leaking or lost its grease get it fixed. No expert here, just been trying to fix up my first old Subaru for the past year. One thing leads to another.

OK. That's what we're talking about, all right. Both DOJs move noticeably, they're mounted on the smaller cylinders [EDITED see below] that poke out of the side of the transmission case -- and that's what's moving. Transmission rebuilder says that amount of movement there is Ok, so the problem's somewhere else. I found one 'troubleshooting' book mentioning vibration on acceleration -- Haynes manual at p. 28. It says DOJ, joint angle or worn joints. Nothing in Chilton and nothing in "Keep Your Subaru Alive 2nd ed." How about yours, '83? Where does it wobble when it's standing still? EDITED Maybe something else is moving too.

Is "Double Offset Joint cup" the place where the axle goes directly into the side of the transmission case? That's where I have play. Here's a picture (20 years newer part). http://www.drive.subaru.com/Fall03/WhatsInside/Shaft.jpg The piece I was moving by hand slightly is the DOJ and from it a smaller cylinder (stub axle? I'm guessing) that goes from the DOJ into the transmission case -- and that smaller piece is what's moving a bit EDIT, transmission rebuilder says the tiny movement I see in the axle is ok; so back to suspecting the DOJ on the brand new front axles. How about you, '83? Old tranny? or not? I'm very curious if you can do the wiggle test I described and tell us if yours move where the axle goes into the transmission case like mine do. Anyhow we both got new "not rebuilt" axles and we both got vibration immediately after they were installed. I wonder if they are the same brand.

Try this, would you? I just did, my new axles seem to have the same problem. Prior thread has "vibration" in the headline. Auto mechanic just put these in brand new. Here's what I find. Shakes on acceleration (worse accelerating and turning, first gear 2wd, from a stop). I've just been out to the car again in the driveway. I reach in and grab the big shiny cylinder near the transmission -- it connects to a smaller golden cylinder (axle?) that goes through a shiny ring and into the side of the transmission (the transmission opening has what looks like a raised picture of the side of a gear on it around that opening). Transmission's dull gray metal. Car's in gear, brake on, weight on the wheels. I can wiggle the big shiny cylinder-- and that moves the axle, and the axle moves inside the shiny ring where it enters the transmission case and the ring moves also -- slightly but noticeably -- both up and down and front to rear. There's a little click as it moves. Both sides, both front axles, have that slight motion about the same. (Remove the mini-spare-tire to reach the left front axle, or crawl under.) That shouldn't wiggle at all -- right? -------------------------------- ------ Experts? We'd just been told after a check yesterday that the axles are "solid" -- maybe the feel solid when the car's up on the lift? I agree doing it yourself is better; I can't, at least not now.

Dang. Subaru parts dept apparently no longer knows about this -- they just sent my mechanic a whole brand new original set, and told him what was on the car (it's never been upgraded with the fix) was the right setup. I didn't know about the older thread with pictures til after that happened, thanks for the pointer. I'll print it out and take it in. Rats.

The service bulletin link above is dead now -- anyone got a current copy? My 1988 GL is doing this on exactly the same thing -- sweeping right 270-degree turn descending and accelerating onto the freeway, gets a big white smoke cloud. I understand it needs a new Subaru brand PCV valve, but maybe also a revised hose. Need a picture or part number if anyone has either one.

It is SPFI. I'll have to look up whether the PCV hose and valve were supplied (presumably new and correct position) on the rebuild engine -- or if they aren't supplied with the rebuild and get put on locally -- in which case, I dunno. I'd have thought they'd be part of a rebuild, but it's a detail I'm not sure of -- and since it's been back to the rebuilder twice for fixes, it's worth checking. Thanks, I'll look into it. Pointer to picture/instructions, anyone? Presumably it's in the shop manuals. But if someone can show me how it ought to look, I'll check it myself before I drive it this weekend. Picture or diagram? EDITED: I've looked and I haven't found anything about this. Pointer most welcome if it's documented somewhere. EDIT: more details in resp. 31, to keep them all in one place. Still digging for more info.

>it's probably a valve seat on that cylinder That likely to cause of the cloud of smoke, the one time accelerating into a descending 3/4 circle freeway entry ramp? I'll do that ramp again next trip and watch for it if it's diagnostic of anything. By late June, I'll have driven another 400 miles or so, half mountain road, and the engine will have maybe 1200 miles since its first re-rebuild, 800 since the second one. (And 800 on the front axles -- new, not rebuilt.) I guess that ought to help sort out what's shaking. The engine, in 400 miles since it was resealed, hasn't lost significant oil or coolant. I check it like it was my 1960s Chevy, every couple hundred miles. I do have more shaking noticeable at idle today -- stopped at red lights, it's definitely gotten worse over the 800 miles. Well, time will sort it out. But for anyone with bogging down at low speeds -- replacing the throttle position sensor was magic. That at least is better than it's ever been.

[Edited again, more info, to keep it together finally] Compression mid-April when the engine came back from being resealed (3-400 miles after 1st re-rebuild) was: 150/175/165/165 Driving it another 350-400 miles, it changed: +20/+25/+20/+20 on June 3rd after I got back from the mountain ( 750-800 miles after re-rebuild) EDIT -- I was given these numbers over the phone: 170/200/195/195 Done the day the mechanic duplicated the vibration/shaking in first gear 2wd going up a very steep slope, as complained of earlier. EDIT -- I found these different numbers on the invoice written that same day and I am not sure if more than one test was run, or more than one kind.: 170/195/175/185 I'll find out. Comments please from those with expertise in rebuilt 1800 engines? How do those pressure numbers look? Would you do another 350-400 mile trip --- long steep switchbacky (paved) first gear 2wd climbs, and a 9-mile dirt 4wd low first gear? That'd reach the mark total of over 1000 miles since it was first re-rebuilt last fall, (and over 500 miles since it was re-re-rebuilt in March/April for leaky seals). We're waiting on the rebuilder [and] the mechanic ... [and whatever I do by driving another 400 miles in the next few weeks reveals] to agree on what's next. Everybody's had the flu (me included) so I expect things to get better as people recover. [Mechanic confirmed one suggestion above -- got a dried strut mount and bushings at right front, where that's become noisy crawling up the pothole trail. ] [Mechanic also said the car has slight wear and tear and play in the steering rack -- not enough to worry about -- and that's what's making the groaning noise when turning sharpest in either direction.] Here's hoping. I'll check back in mid next week -- as we're packing -- and decide whether we take this vehicle along (as a 2nd car, not going to trust it with the kids). Worst case -- it's a $600 tow out by the 4wd tow guy. And, no, I won't rely solely on BBS advice.

Shawn, do you know the engine I'm talking about? The local mechanic is the one recommended by the rebuilder -- who has worked with them before me and has referred other people to them since, and the rebuilder told me this mechanic's OK. When I hear you say the mechanic must be wrong -- which says the rebuilder must be sending me to someone they're mistaken about trusting -- it makes me think you must be very sure what's going on. How about if I run another 300 miles -- I could do that tomorrow and Sunday, go back to the mountain -- I really do need to make that trip if I can. That'd put the engine at 1000 miles since it was rebuilt the second time (when the heads were redone last fall). Do you think it's safe to go with the engine as it is, and would it be more definite to check compression at 1000 miles than at 7-800? And what conclusion is correct if the compression has gotten worse on the cylinder that was low to begin? I am trying to do this just exactly as advised -- I described the driving conditions to the rebuilder to make sure I wasn't overstressing the engine during wearin. And -- next to last edit -- I'll fill in new info if I get any tomorrow. But after tomorrow I'll be packing and then gone. We wanted the Subaru just for the one long camping trip we take each June with family. It won't be ready, so it doesn't get to go with us this year. No other need for it. I've rented a big 4wd drive truck that will hold us all instead, so the Subaru's going to be in the hands of the mechanic and rebuilder. Both are reputable shops that have good warranties and reputations for standing by them. They'll work it out. And I'll be gone til July, while they do whatever they decide.

I knew someone who had one of those cute little things, but it couldn't compare to my first car -- a 1960 Chevy 2-door sedan (that had been rolled, and totaled, twice before I got it) for reliable back road country camping travel. It was the last year of real tailfins, the big square-cornered flat sharp ones --- before they started morphing (we'd have called it melting) back into being just little ridges on the body).