Alaskan Ravin Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) All, I have a 1998 Outback Ltd. Edition; it's automatic transmission and has a 2.5L DOHC engine. The engine overheated once...the temp gauge spiked. Luckily I was close to our trusty Subaru repair shop and I got the vehicle right in for inspection and work. I had to replace the head gasket, reseal the powersteering pump, replace the plennum o-rings, replace the rear inspection cover including a replacement of the rear o-ring and rear main seal (crankshaft), replace radiator hoses, replace the left rear lateral link, and align all four wheels. When we picked up the vehicle, the engine had a new, strong knocking sound when the engine was idling; the knocking increased as the engine revved and when I drove. Recently, I took the vehicle in for an oil change and the tech said the vehicle had a bad engine leak. I took the vehicle back to my Subaru repair shop under the warranty for the work stated above. The new diagnosis is crank walk. The repair shop is telling me that crank walk is virtually unheard of in an automatic 2.5L DOHC engine and that it's unrelated to the work performed. The shop recommends replacing the engine block. It is willing to do the engine restoration and inspection for free if I buy the used engine. I am not 100% convinced that the crank walk is unrelated to the work as the knocking sound did not exist until the work was done and I noticed it immediately. I need to know whether to continue to push the shop to cover all of the repair, that is can the crank walk problem be directly linked to the work performed previously. As I have research crank walk, it seems related to the thrust bearing. What are other causes of crank walk? When the initial work was performed, the shop inspected the engine cylinders for irregular wear or scoring from the overheating. It also cleaned and inspected the block surface for damage or warpage, cleaned, inspected, and measured the heads for tolerance, removed carbon from the piston tops and valves, adjusted the valve lash, replaced the intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets, and exhaust header gaskets. The timing belt idlers and hydraulic tensioner was inspected and a new timing belt was installed. Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks! Edited September 16, 2009 by Alaskan Ravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Sounds like you cooked the engine, took it to a shop to fix the headgaskets, plus abunch of other stuff, wheel alignment wax, detail, etc, all while after the engine was cooked it was knocking...... Darn ej25. The noise and crank walk is a result of you, cooking the engine, due to a design feature of this ej25. Or it is a result of a BIG oil leak that the service shop would be responsible for. They did their part, but should not have let you have the car back with a cooked crank, or a big leak. If you are lucky, they will give you half off a new block.I am pessimistic someone who is an optomist can get your hopes up I hope. Edited September 16, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well if you are sure it wasn't knocking when you drove it into the shop(you did drive it in right?), I'd suspect they have done something wrong and are covering their arses. The only scenerio that I can think of where they wouldn't be responsible would be if the bearings were already worn or damaged by the heat, then once you got the full compression back they started to knock. If that is what you have here, then the knock should only be very minimul and mainly when the motor is warm. If it is the bearings, checking the oil pressure will reveal it. If it's the thrusts that are worn now(which in an auto is highly unlikely), then the oil pressure will be uneffected. End float in the crank is really easy to check anyway, just lever the front pulley back and forwards. If the oil pressure is down, it still doesn't guarantee that the bearings are worn. They could have done something in the head, left pressure regulators out of the feed to the hydraulic lifters for instance(if that model has them). It could be that they have left the flexiplate bolts loose in the crank or the torque converter bolts loose. I am a mechanic and I don't work for anyone else because I don't like the lack of ethics in business. Standard practice is, if you do something wrong and it's going to cost you to put it right... lie and charge them for extra(unneeded) work and fix your stuff-up while you are at it. Being honest costs and lieing earns you more money. This has all the hallmarks of incompetence and dishonesty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote It could be that they have left the flexiplate bolts loose in the crank or the torque converter bolts loose. That was my guess when I read the first post. Many year ago I bought a used Fairlane that had a new engine installed. Few months later I swore I had engine knock. Eventually discovered the flex plate bolts came loose. As for "the problem was created because the engine ran hot one time" explanation, how many cases of this happening have you ever heard of? Wish I had a dollar for ever time I overheated an engine. None ever needed replacement afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Classic buggered Rear main seal installation. They are saying it's crank walk to cover there rump roast. Or really, they are just guessing because in many cases a rear main that keeps blowing IS form crank walk. However in Subarus, the rear main is just easy to get wrong. The rear mains on these cars are tough to get well seated. The reason is that the seal is installed as the case halves are assembled at the factory. This squeezes it and holds it. When we replace them, we are pressing them straight into a very tight hole, and they have a tendancy to shave a little of one edge. They are really just a bEAAch to get right. Additionally, a low quality aftermarket seal WILL fail if used there, even if installed properly. I ussually don't even bother replacing them, as the tiny amount of weep from the OE seal is way less than the puking of a crappy or impropely installed one. If they are already willing to pull a motor and replace it for no cost, they should be willing to pull it and reinstall an OEM Subaru Main seal. It needs to be coated on the outer edge with a thin layer of RTV to keep it sealed in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Hey, I've seen this before. EJ 2.5 DOHC overheats. New Gaskets and when it's all said and done, the motor "knocks". But...YMMV. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I have the same make, model, except I have a manual trans. I just got done doing mine, it's not difficult, there needs to be a lot of attention to fine details. If it has a leak, where is it exactly (has he properly diagnosed it). What was the compression of each of cylinder before he started the head gasket job and what are the numbers now? Did it make the knock before they started the job? One mistake I made when I did mine was before I started I didn't check the compression before I started the job. Not required but a good practice whenever tearing into any engine. If you can get access to an OBD2 tester you can check the engine codes. Some auto parts stores such as will test it if you bring the car to them or they have a loaner program where essentially you borrow it. The connector to plug it into is behind a cover to the lower left side of the steering wheel on the lower dash. If possible check the codes and report back. Just a recommendation, be careful if they recommend any parts, they seem to push parts you absolutely don't need. You shouldn't replace anything until you properly diagnose the problem by troubleshooting the root cause of the problem. I also can't help wonder if he was off on the timing belt. It's a fairly easy job, but again it's also easy to screw it up, especially on this car (DOHC). If I were you and you can't do this, either find another reputable shop to take it to get it diagnosed, or just pay a diagnose fee to the dealer to have them troubleshoot it. Then you will know instead of guessing. Before you do that though see if you get some good responses here to help diagnose it. Good luck, and report back on findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Ravin Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Thanks for all the helpful feedback. When we initially turned in the vehicle, the service rep told me that the owner thought the knocking might be a problem a "wrist pin." What is a wrist pin? Would the shop have had to access, manipulate, replace, remove, or otherwise deal with the wrist pin performing any of the work I reported in my initial post? I think I am going to contact the Subaru dealer here in town for a second opinion. Thanks, again, Alaskan Ravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 the Wrist pin is the dowel that holds the piston to the connecting rod..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 interesting you mentioned "wrist pin". i bought my '97 outback wagon w/ 98k miles for cheap because it had a bad "wrist pin". it turned out to be piston slap, and i'm still driving it 30k miles later. but if they are going to fix it for free... let them. just do not let them talk you into paying for a repair that they caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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