robert_the_sane Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm wanting to build a mean little 1.8L , and hoping someone here can suggest sources for parts ! I plan on using the pistons from a SPFI EA82 to bump my compression ratio up some...and I already have the heads taken care of...had them ported & polished, installed larger valves, heavier springs, titanium keepers, and took .030" off their faces. I got the stuff for my heads @ PAECO here in Birmingham,AL....though what they can supply is limited to (some) of the engine internals, i.e. :s.s. valves, copper head gaskets, ect... Anyone here know where I can get a hi-perf. grind cam, a Weber carb, and any other items (or tips + tricks) that I can use to push my little N/A Boxer to 100+ hp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 For starters: Port and polish: A few people including myself do those Valve springs: Ram performance for higher strength Cam: Delta Cam Weber carb is a good start and definately good for more power as well as get your heads decked .020" to .030". That should get you headed in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruWagon87 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 http://ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98932 There ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You won't make 100 HP, but you can improve it a bit. You are on the right track to make 85 or 90 HP most likely. SPFI would be a better choice than the Weber. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 im sure with a bit of manifold adapting, you could mount a pair of DGAV or similar webers, or some twin 40's like IDF's or somin, get the cam done, and a decent exhuast, dont see why somin like 120 aint in sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 dont see why somin like 120 aint in sight? The heads won't flow that much. If you wanted to hit numbers like that with the stock heads you would need forced induction. The JDM dual-carb engines (with reversed valves, higher flow heads, and matching cam) were still only 108 HP. And DGV's aren't suired to pairing. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 lol, i get used to looking at dual ports though! lol and lighten up the flywheel! mines in the shop now having a kilo or two taken off it, whack a bit of higher octane fuel in it, not sure what else really, unless you go injection, or forged pistons from RAMengines or some dualports from them, they would be quite a nice upgrade, just need to sort out thermostat somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You won't make 100 HP, but you can improve it a bit. You are on the right track to make 85 or 90 HP most likely. SPFI would be a better choice than the Weber. GD standard power out of the UK spec was 87, so im sure that 120 is more than reasonable, the US figures dont even match up right to mine, i put it on the dyno, and after 14 years, according to the U.S figures, its only lost about 5hp, which i know is pretty impossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think GD has got it right. http://www.ramengines.com/id63.html Just to give you an idea of how much time, money, and technology you'll have to throw at it. Thats a fully built EA81 for aircraft use. (don't see why it could not be used in a car though, they actually say you can if you really want somewhere on the site) 115 hp. $13,600.00 If ya wanna spend the money......... But at that point you are just about halfway to just buying a new STI. Granted you proly could pull more power out of an EA81. I'm sure they are keeping it down a bit for reliability reasons being it's for an aircraft. (they also offer a supercharger for that one) As in build it to handle way more power as it puts out so you don't blow it and fall out of the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think GD has got it right.http://www.ramengines.com/id63.html Just to give you an idea of how much time, money, and technology you'll have to throw at it. Thats a fully built EA81 for aircraft use. (don't see why it could not be used in a car though, they actually say you can if you really want somewhere on the site) 115 hp. $13,600.00 If ya wanna spend the money......... But at that point you are just about halfway to just buying a new STI. Granted you proly could pull more power out of an EA81. I'm sure they are keeping it down a bit for reliability reasons being it's for an aircraft. (they also offer a supercharger for that one) As in build it to handle way more power as it puts out so you don't blow it and fall out of the sky. there is a reason for this pricing, and you got in the reliablilty terms, each and everyone of rons RAMengines are balanced, and blueprinted, as well as using THE best conditions to build in, and using the most expensive parts, such as forged pistons, and in house built dual port heads, and in house built injection systems, not forgetting the redrive units as well, plus ECU, so theres quite alot to add up there, to make it the price it is. just read the blurb, thers alot of work that goes into one engine! most of which, you could do yourself. subaru as said, built the dual carb option with an improved cam, and got 108, out the factory, and they need to build stuff thats gonna last, not blow up after 30000 miles, so building it stronger, with higher compression figures and and improving the fuelling more so, i dont see why you couldnt gain another 12 hp on a factory conversion. I think maybe something to consider, is the octance rating, if thats a contributing factor? it says that it can run 100 LL avgas, well, if so, 99 is obtainable in the country from the pump, and avgas is like 108 or somin as i say, if this a factor, i dont know, as i dont live in america, so dont know what comes off the pumps usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The dual carb engines were not just a cam upgrade - the heads are totally different - the valves are reversed like an EA82 for better flow. You simply can't get the flow needed for 120 HP from the US market heads....... unless you turbo it. A simple VF-7 with a blow-through setup is not all that hard to fab up and will give more performance than any dual-carb setup could ever give. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmiller Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) I'm wanting to build a mean little 1.8L , and hoping someone here can suggest sources for parts ! I plan on using the pistons from a SPFI EA82 to bump my compression ratio up some...and I already have the heads taken care of...had them ported & polished, installed larger valves, heavier springs, titanium keepers, and took .030" off their faces. I got the stuff for my heads @ PAECO here in Birmingham,AL....though what they can supply is limited to (some) of the engine internals, i.e. :s.s. valves, copper head gaskets, ect... Anyone here know where I can get a hi-perf. grind cam, a Weber carb, and any other items (or tips + tricks) that I can use to push my little N/A Boxer to 100+ hp? I would just do an EJ22 NA swap, that will get you over 120hp with just the bone stock motor in an EA81 or EA82 body. I have just recently built a very nice, clean EJ22 with very low miles to swap into my '92 Loyale for well under $1000. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=103355 The EJ22 "breathes" alot better than an EA81/82 motor and is rock solid for reliability. And you are putting it into a bit lighter platform than what it originally came out of so your power to weight ratio is much better. Plus there are more current aftermarket parts you can get for it. You could even do an EJ25 block with ej22 heads and get more compression. Or do a stroker with EJ22 block and EJ25 crank/cams for more torque, better for off road. Lots more options for HP with the EJ series, its just a better design than the old EA motors. Edited September 17, 2009 by cmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The dual carb engines were not just a cam upgrade - the heads are totally different - the valves are reversed like an EA82 for better flow. The dual carb cam isn't even an upgrade. It just has the reversed lobes for the reversed valves. I took mine into Delta Cam and Ken checked the specs on it. Turns out the hydro cam is more impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 the EJ swap is probably better, but this lad has already had the heads done, so hes kinda got into it now, if you can get more lift on the cam, then you should be on more of a winner anyways than standard, do delta improve lift at all, or just shift the torque/hp around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The dual carb engines were not just a cam upgrade - the heads are totally different - the valves are reversed like an EA82 for better flow. You simply can't get the flow needed for 120 HP from the US market heads....... unless you turbo it. A simple VF-7 with a blow-through setup is not all that hard to fab up and will give more performance than any dual-carb setup could ever give. GD Heads are different as you mention but i dont believe that the US spec heads are as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I talked on the phone with Stratus engines for about an hour as well as some other noted subaru people and the general consensus is that the JDM heads will give you some gains up high in the RPMs, but you will actually LOSE power down low because they flow almost too much. Also our US spec heads have a better flowing exhaust side, with the exhaust having an express route out of the heads where as the JDM ones have to wind around inside the head before dumping out the bottom. Idk this is all bench racing. Ive been chasing after a set of JDM heads for awhile but i dont even think i want em anymore lol. They are too hard to find and if something happens to them...im SOL. My plan is to: -Port/polish, 3 angle valve job, .030 off the surface of the US spec heads -SPFI pistons -Delta cam -Dual carb manifold -high flow exhaust (already there ) This should get me to around 105 hp or so. Stratus has done this basic package except they shave .050 off the heads and they dont swap in the SPFI pistons and they dynoed an engine with this layout at 106 hp. Im guestimating that my planned setup would net around the same. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 This should get me to around 105 hp or so. Since you are going to all that trouble anyway, why not make it really fabulous and do a blow-through turbo setup on it? You could easily push 5 psi through it and probably push it up around 125 HP or so. Wouldn't hurt anything - the bottom end will handle 5 pounds without issue. I have an extra EA81T engine cross-member in my collection that I might let go if you promise to build it right GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84gl Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I have built two ea81s with delta 240 cams big valve heads 2.00&1.94 valves 11.5 to 1 comp. and spfi It dyno @ 113hp 126 pounds of torque it can be done its just not easy. Its took me long time and alot of work to do it. oh by the way I'm a Machinist SUBARU DUDE has rode in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Since you are going to all that trouble anyway, why not make it really fabulous and do a blow-through turbo setup on it? You could easily push 5 psi through it and probably push it up around 125 HP or so. Wouldn't hurt anything - the bottom end will handle 5 pounds without issue. I have an extra EA81T engine cross-member in my collection that I might let go if you promise to build it right GD Oh....jeez lol. Now your killin me. I think for now i have to pass just cause i already spent a good amount of money on a new exhaust system from the y pipe back. Full custom 2 inch. I figured if i went any bigger than 2 inch on a N/A it would kill my low end. But thank you very much for the offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_the_sane Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 You won't make 100 HP, but you can improve it a bit. You are on the right track to make 85 or 90 HP most likely. SPFI would be a better choice than the Weber. GD I'm currently running those modded heads on my otherwise stock motor, and I believe I'm already doing 85-90 hp from the head job alone: honestly, I simply couldn't believe how much stronger the lil' thing was from that...then again, if you've only got 70 hp to start with, I guess a gain of just 10 hp FEELS damn signifigant !! It made me want to immediately split the case and throw a lumpy cam into it...and so on. I've been daydreaming about SPFI, actually... and maybe even a tiny turbo to blow thru it I'd certainly be the only kid in my neighborhood with a EFI BRAT! Do you have the scoop on how to make the disty compatable with the EFI ?(ummm, they're not interchangeable, are they? I'm pretty ignorant about SPFI EA82's... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I'm currently running those modded heads on my otherwise stock motor, and I believe I'm already doing 85-90 hp from the head job alone: honestly, I simply couldn't believe how much stronger the lil' thing was from that...then again, if you've only got 70 hp to start with, I guess a gain of just 10 hp FEELS damn signifigant !! It made me want to immediately split the case and throw a lumpy cam into it...and so on. Yes it is quite amazing. My Brat currently has an SPFI EA82 in it. The 16 HP makes it quite a bit sportier. I've been daydreaming about SPFI, actually... and maybe even a tiny turbo to blow thru it I'd certainly be the only kid in my neighborhood with a EFI BRAT! Turbo's don't play well with the SPFI's stock computer. You could go with something like MegaSquirt though that natively understands when manifold pressure goes above atmospheric. Do you have the scoop on how to make the disty compatable with the EFI ?(ummm, they're not interchangeable, are they? I'm pretty ignorant about SPFI EA82's... ) Well - I guess you asked the right guy since I'm the one that wrote the SPFI conversion manual for EA81's. Here's the link: http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 115 hp. $13,600.00 Hmmmm. EJ22 swap=130hp, under 1k, all parts included... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I have built two ea81s with delta 240 cams big valve heads 2.00&1.94 valves 11.5 to 1 comp. and spfi It dyno @ 113hp 126 pounds of torque it can be done its just not easy. Its took me long time and alot of work to do it. oh by the way I'm a Machinist SUBARU DUDE has rode in it yes, i like it, what did you do to get 11.5:1? massive head skim or put diff pistons in or a combination? sorta thing i would like, comp like that, but you can only skim heads once! lol! the valves, how much bigger is that than standard then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joostvdw Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 yes, i like it, what did you do to get 11.5:1? massive head skim or put diff pistons in or a combination? sorta thing i would like, comp like that, but you can only skim heads once! lol! the valves, how much bigger is that than standard then? You have to realise that if you shave the heads, your valve timing changes since it's a pushrod engine. Haveing a custom cam of custom pushrods made is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_the_sane Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Well - I guess you asked the right guy since I'm the one that wrote the SPFI conversion manual for EA81's. Here's the link: http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html GD ~Thank you so much !~ I've got some VW buddies that are anxiously waiting to see what can be done with it, and I'm having a blast working on the lil' bugger ! Got my hands on a running EA81 with hydraulic lifters...Ive got the solid lifter engine disassembled, but I read a post here somewhere that the hydro. model can make more power...any thoughts? And I'm also now extremely curious! Just what you did to have to do to get an EA82 in a BRAT? 'Cos I've got an '89 XT MPFI layin' around here somewhere-freshly rebuilt and only crashed once! Some might say it would be a downgrade...I would disagree completely, but then,I'm clearly not right in the head, building a HP EA81 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinbrat Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 You have to realise that if you shave the heads, your valve timing changes since it's a pushrod engine. Haveing a custom cam of custom pushrods made is a must. ah good point man, could you not grind the cam to help this then? i should be alright then, i got the custom bit covered! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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