GeneralDisorder Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm not totally clear on what the technical differences are between the RX FT4WD D/R with diff lock and the EJ dual-range.... besides the obvious bell-housing difference. If someone could answer these questions that would be great: 1. What is the low range ratio? 2. Are they FT4WD with diff-lock or are they AWD? (with diff-lock?). 3. What is the final drive ratio? IIRC, most of the Aus/NZ 4WD stuff was 3.7.... Thanks and I'm sure other's would like this clarification. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm not totally clear on what the technical differences are between the RX FT4WD D/R with diff lock and the EJ dual-range.... besides the obvious bell-housing difference. If someone could answer these questions that would be great: 1. What is the low range ratio? 2. Are they FT4WD with diff-lock or are they AWD? (with diff-lock?). 3. What is the final drive ratio? IIRC, most of the Aus/NZ 4WD stuff was 3.7.... Thanks and I'm sure other's would like this clarification. GD the one I have, out of a '92 Liberty GX has a 1.196:1 low range, 3.9:1 axle ratios, a VLSD center diff and the same 1-5 gears as a standard AWD legacy 5MT (not 100% sure on this, might have the shorter gears like the EA82t gearboxes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 the one I have, out of a '92 Liberty GX has a 1.196:1 low range, 3.9:1 axle ratios, a VLSD center diff and the same 1-5 gears as a standard AWD legacy 5MT (not 100% sure on this, might have the shorter gears like the EA82t gearboxes) So can the low range be swapped out with the 1.59:1 from the EA D/R? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 So can the low range be swapped out with the 1.59:1 from the EA D/R? GD Yes. but I think there's clearance issues with the ring gear. I know the 4.111 ring has to be machined a bit to clear the 1.59, I don't remember if the 3.90 does. You might look up Phizinza's old build thread for his Brumby. He did a hybrid EJ D/R trans, and used the 1.59. but I don't remember what axle ratio he used. but otherwise, yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 So just to be clear.... It is possible to swap in the 1.59 low range set, as well as the RX locking center diff, but some of these may have front diff ratio's lower than 3.7 thus making the low range swap more difficult? I guess the question then is - did the Liberty come with the D/R in anything other than a 3.7 final drive? If not then the only variable seems to be the locking center diff, which can be sourced here in the US and the low range ratio which can also be sourced here. Does the EJ dual-range also accept USDM front diff's? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwishooter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 GD............you have lost me what is it you want to know????? I was under the impression that the Legacy EJ Hi/Lo ratio gearbox wasn't available in the US, yet your post indicates it was available, if that is the case there is no need for me to do the work to export Legacy duel range gearboxes to the US. I haven't heard of the USDM front diff's and can't answer that question. If people want me to jump through hoops and answer all the questions about what will fit what can be changed what ratios etc etc etc before buying then I guess this deal will fall through as all I am prepared to do is purchase the transmissions, build a box, put them in it address them and send them. Nothing would be shipped untill after I have recieved the funds from everyone. It makes no difference to me if I do all the work or not, after all I'm not doing it for profit. So I guess what I am saying is for this to work I need whoever wants a gearbox to say they want one and front up with the money. Since Scooby is prepared to act as the reciever perhaps he is prepared to recieve the money and when hes got it all transfer the money to me here in NZ or the alternative is to send the money to my friend in Indiana who already has my bank details and will transfer the money to me. One other thing is when I have buyers for ten gearboxes, that is it, I don't need the money transferred to me until the gearboxes are packaged and ready to ship. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 No - we did not get the Legacy hi/lo gearbox. What I'm asking is - since you aren't openeing them up, what *for sure* US market parts will fit inside them? That would at least assure us that they can be modified to fit our needs if they don't come that way off the boat. I think most of the people that are looking for these are looking for the lowest gearing possible - so 1.59:1 or comparable low range, 4.111 final drive (or at least 3.9), and locking center diff. We did get FT4WD D/R transmissions here for the EA82's and they can bolt up to the EJ engine with an adaptor plate, but there isn't any combination of parts that will allow all of these desireable features and low gearing. If the EDM dual range can't offer that feature set either then I am less open to dropping ~$400 US on one. I understand that you can't open them all up, and thus you can't really inspect their condition or gearing. But that makes it doubly imperitive that we know what parts will/will not work from the US market transmissions as besides potentially not having the gearing we want, they also may need repair in some way. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 No - we did not get the Legacy hi/lo gearbox. What I'm asking is - since you aren't openeing them up, what *for sure* US market parts will fit inside them? That would at least assure us that they can be modified to fit our needs if they don't come that way off the boat. I think most of the people that are looking for these are looking for the lowest gearing possible - so 1.59:1 or comparable low range, 4.111 final drive (or at least 3.9), and locking center diff. We did get FT4WD D/R transmissions here for the EA82's and they can bolt up to the EJ engine with an adaptor plate, but there isn't any combination of parts that will allow all of these desireable features and low gearing. If the EDM dual range can't offer that feature set either then I am less open to dropping ~$400 US on one. I understand that you can't open them all up, and thus you can't really inspect their condition or gearing. But that makes it doubly imperitive that we know what parts will/will not work from the US market transmissions as besides potentially not having the gearing we want, they also may need repair in some way. GD The only thing the EJ dual-range offers that you can't have here, is the bellhousing. It's just as possible to make a 1.59:1 - 4.111 trans with parts available here in the us, but you to use the VLSD center instead of the FT4WD locker and an adapter plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 The only thing the EJ dual-range offers that you can't have here, is the bellhousing. It's just as possible to make a 1.59:1 - 4.111 trans with parts available here in the us, but you to use the VLSD center instead of the FT4WD locker and an adapter plate. So the EJ dual-range offered a locker for the center diff (lockable VC?) which was not offered here? Could this component be added to say an RX tranny making it capable of true 4WD and compatible with the 1.59:1 and 4.111? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I personally don't feel the adapter plate is a big deal (and it's kind of cool to brag about ) Basically then this will let you make a "phantom" 4.11 FT4WD RX transmission.. because you're stuck with whatever center section matches the pinion shaft you use (because the pinion gear is welded to the shaft). So... why not just import the 3.9 or 4.11 locking-diff center sections instead of the whole thing, and save a boatload on shipping? BTW I searched for threads started by Phizinza (and all of them look useful ) but this is the thread in question where he built his: Brumby conversion: EJ22, hybrid AWD center lock, SUCCESS!!! The only thing the EJ dual-range offers that you can't have here, is the bellhousing. It's just as possible to make a 1.59:1 - 4.111 trans with parts available here in the us, but you to use the VLSD center instead of the FT4WD locker and an adapter plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 So the EJ dual-range offered a locker for the center diff (lockable VC?) which was not offered here? Could this component be added to say an RX tranny making it capable of true 4WD and compatible with the 1.59:1 and 4.111? GD no. the ONLY thing that is different is the bell housing. period. you can put 4.111s in an EA D/R, but you have to use the EJ center diff. from what it sounds, the EJ dual range with center diff lock likely has the 3.7 just like the RX trans. my EJ D/R has a 3.90 and a VLSD just like any other EJ AWD trans, no locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 So, effectively, there is no reason to want one of these unless you want to get rid of the adaptor plate? Sounds like a waste of time, effort, and money to me. I thought that was probably the case but I wanted to ask and make sure. I'll just stick with my laser-cut, CNC'd adaptor plate and keep the $350 then. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) kiwishooter says the Legacy D/R boxes he has have a lockable centre diff.. This blows my mind because after 5 years of playing with these cars and all the boxes I've ripped apart and all the research I have done I have not heard of this option until now. I personally would be a little bit worried about getting one of these boxes as I know there are name differences and confusion when it comes to NZ's cars so I would want to know for sure this is a EJ gearbox and not an EA gearbox they wants to sell.. kiwishooter didn't quite answer my questions enough to be happy enough to buy one. And to you kiwishooter, if you give detailed info on these gearboxes it will show you actually know your stuff about Subaru's and make your "customers" happy to buy from you. Oh and GD. The EJ D/R options we had in Aus that I know of are: 89-98 Liberty - 1.19:1, 3.9 95-02 Liberty - 1.19:1, 3.7 97-02 Forester - 1.44, 4.11 3.9 ratio should fit with 1.59:1 low range. If you want an EA82 RX FT4WD centre diff you must take the diff ratio with it, 3.7. Or get a single range XT6 with the FT4WD 3.9. Edited September 18, 2009 by Phizinza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 ^agreed. I was pretty shocked at his refusal to find out what it is that he's selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Thanks guys - that was my concern as well - that there is just a ton of information missing on both ends. Am I going to pay $350 for a tranny that has unknown ratio's, and that the seller has never driven and doesn't even know what vehicle it for sure came from?!? Not this sucker..... If I were going to buy one I would much rather pay $700 for a single unit - shipped by someone that at least has verified what's in it and that it doesn't look like a hand-grenade went off inside it. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 so , the ej center diff can be acquired from the USDM 5 spd then.....is what you are saying. cheers, brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 so , the ej center diff can be acquired from the USDM 5 spd then.....is what you are saying.cheers, brian yea, the center diff is no different than a single-range 5MT. although kiwishooter has mentioned something about an EJ with a locking center. I've never heard of this, and it doesn't sound like Phizinza has either. If he has found some other trim level that has a locker, it's likely the FT4WD center just like any RX/XT6/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwishooter Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Without opening every gearbox up this is what I know.... I have looked inside the EJ D/R gearbox and the two I have opened up have had the same internals as the RX gearbox that I opened up. 1.46 lo ratio 3.7 final and the same tooth count as the RX in all gears. As for the EJ Hi/Lo with center diff lock I haven't opened one up yet so can't say what it would be. Now unless someone want s to ship parts over to NZ to see if they can be fitted into one of these gearboxes I cannot answer those questions. One thing that this would achieve is to supply a EJ Hi/Lo ratio gearbox to people who don't want to or haven't got the ability to fit alternative parts into a EA or Legacy gearbox.........this is a bolt in fit for a Legacy, or behind a EJ engine no adapter plates, no changing axles driveshafts or cross members....Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Ok well my worry is if you get an EJ D/R with center locking diff the center diff will be different to standard ones and need a different pinion shaft. Thus the ratio will not be changeable. I have heard of this 1.47:1 ratio that NZ EJ D/R's. To my knowledge the RX's they got over there had that option too over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 So, effectively, there is no reason to want one of these unless you want to get rid of the adaptor plate? Sounds like a waste of time, effort, and money to me. I thought that was probably the case but I wanted to ask and make sure. One huge reason for wanting them is the CLUTCH. With the adapter plate you have to use an EA flywheel and clutch setups, which, while you can use EJ disks and xt6 pressure plates is still fairly lacking when it comes to performance clutch options. The EJ behhousing has the relocated starter motor position, so you use an EJ flywheel and all the clutch options that come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Ok well my worry is if you get an EJ D/R with center locking diff the center diff will be different to standard ones and need a different pinion shaft. Thus the ratio will not be changeable. I have heard of this 1.47:1 ratio that NZ EJ D/R's. To my knowledge the RX's they got over there had that option too over there. all our FT4WD DRs have a 1.19:1. The Only reason for wanting them is the CLUTCH. fixed That's the point I was trying to make. the internals aren't any different than the stuff we have. Assembling a tranny with USDM parts and the same internals as an EJ D/R is possible, but it'll have an EA82 bellhousing, which is fine for most uses. I bought my EJ D/R for street use, so I could have a motor putting out 200 lb/ft (and a not-custom, affordable clutch that can hold it), awesome short gearing for AutoX, and then drop it in hi range for the freeway home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwishooter Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) Thanks guys - that was my concern as well - that there is just a ton of information missing on both ends. Am I going to pay $350 for a tranny that has unknown ratio's, and that the seller has never driven and doesn't even know what vehicle it for sure came from?!? Not this sucker..... If I were going to buy one I would much rather pay $700 for a single unit - shipped by someone that at least has verified what's in it and that it doesn't look like a hand-grenade went off inside it. GD It seems that people can't read.......these gearboxes came out of New Zealand NEW Subaru Legacy's motly ones with 1800 SOHC engines. I have posted before that these will be coming out of a Subaru Legacy from behind an EJ engine. Since you are prepared to pay $700 I am prepard to open up one of the EJ Hi/Lo gearboxes with centrelock diff, but if you want me to do that you OWN it provided it's in good condition internally after all the wrecking yard won't let me take the gearbox away open it up and if it's not the right ratio return it, and as I have stated I'm not prepared to do all that work unless I'm making a PROFIT . So please put your name forward and send your money to Scooby, for a guaranteed good condition gearbox.........Ian Edited September 21, 2009 by kiwishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwishooter Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) kiwishooter says the Legacy D/R boxes he has have a lockable centre diff.. This blows my mind because after 5 years of playing with these cars and all the boxes I've ripped apart and all the research I have done I have not heard of this option until now. I personally would be a little bit worried about getting one of these boxes as I know there are name differences and confusion when it comes to NZ's cars so I would want to know for sure this is a EJ gearbox and not an EA gearbox they wants to sell.. kiwishooter didn't quite answer my questions enough to be happy enough to buy one. And to you kiwishooter, if you give detailed info on these gearboxes it will show you actually know your stuff about Subaru's and make your "customers" happy to buy from you. Oh and GD. The EJ D/R options we had in Aus that I know of are: 89-98 Liberty - 1.19:1, 3.9 95-02 Liberty - 1.19:1, 3.7 97-02 Forester - 1.44, 4.11 3.9 ratio should fit with 1.59:1 low range. If you want an EA82 RX FT4WD centre diff you must take the diff ratio with it, 3.7. Or get a single range XT6 with the FT4WD 3.9. I can guarantee these are Subaru EJ Legacy gearboxes and thay all come out of NZ new Legacy's, mostly 1.8's. The name differences come from imported vehicle, Liberty's from Aussie and I've even seen them called Isuzu, this was a Japanese Import along with a lot of Legacy's in NZ. The two EJ gearboxes I have opened up one out of a 90 Legacy and the other out of a 95 Legacy both had 1.44 and 3.7 ratios. As yet I haven't seen a 1.19 lo ratio and looking in the NZ workshop manual it doesn't list that ratio either. To tell the truth I couldn't care less if anyone wants to buy one, I offered to help those that wanted a Legacy EJ Hi/Lo gearbox with centre diff lock and everyone disbelieves me and virtually calls me a liar because they haven't seen one in person. I think I said in one of my posts I actually worked as a mechanic at the local Subaru dealership back in the 90's and have been rebuilding auto transmissions and manual gearboxes for the last 10 years + so I do know what I am talking about. Perhaps you have trouble telling an EA and EJ gearbox apart but I don't, and believe it or not I can tell the difference between a Legacy and an L series. It looks like I will just pull the plug on this transaction as I have better things to do with my time than trying to answer a whole lot of questions and carry out a heap of work for NOTHING. It is not worth my time to ship one gearbox as the minimum freight cost is the same for one gearbox or the number I can get in a 1m3 box, so I have never worried about trying to ship just one gearbox to Aussie......Ian Edited September 21, 2009 by kiwishooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't feel like its all on you( well it is, you offered) but everyone stateside is just trying to reverse engineer what NZ subaru has done, not you. Dont you think its annoying that some country besides your own gets all the really cool options? I want a d/r with options. Who wouldnt? I also want to fix it if it breaks. Can I do that here? I want a sambar too! I couldn't drive one here if I had it legally. And Darn it why cant we download the manual!!!! Maybe you could distribute some of the top secret NZ subaru specs to help us understand what you got. I know translation is a pain but some of us even speak canadian! I'm local to the scooby and for the price I would love to fit it in my brat. Edited September 21, 2009 by Yo'J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 look mate,i would say that people are just trying to look at all their options sos they can make an educated decision on purchasing.. and for ************s sake......you started posting like a month ago.it takes a little bit for people to gain trust. this is the interweb......its a big world out there,people say they are all kinds of things. your ebay account is all buying.how is a conclusion to be drawn from that? br>did you really think you were just gonna pop on here and sell a bunch of ************ without getting to know us?! a timeline was defenitely in order.if you really just want to help, why do you not want to wait any longer?that is what does not make sense to me.you can take all of this however the ************ you wish mate.cause i really would like a tranny,but am not likeing the rushed feeling.cheers , or not.....brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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