D13 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Hi, yep first post seems like a good place; Im looking for some advice on a possibly big issue on my 2000 Subaru outback with a manual transmission. I recently noticed a interesting whine coming from what sounds like the middle or back of my car. When traveling at 55+ to maintain speed, any press of the accelerator causes this whine. There is a "sweet spot" in the accelerator if you were to try and cause the whine. It sounds like sawing the end of a board off, or very loud tires on the highway. It is definitely related to maintaining speed and acceleration. Out of gear there is no noise. And to make the issue oh so much more fun... I took it to a mechanic, kinda ghetto mexican guy. He rode with me, noticed the sound, threw it up onto the lift and there was hardly any oil in the differential which was covered. He drained it and cleaned it and no metal chips were found. He filled it back up and sent me on my way. He said it was ok to drive if i had to, but i should get it worked on. It has been two days, I have driven probably 50 miles, and there is certainly a leak from the rear differential and the whine is still there. So my questions are: Has anyone had this problem, or have advice to what it is? How major is it? How alarming? How far can I go? To make this an even better story, I'm supposed to be road trippin and traveling starting on the first, not just that but moving with my car full of crap! Should I suck it up and deal with it now, or drive 1000mi+ and risk it and deal with it when settled? thanks, any help would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 So your differential was run dry and now it is whinning? thats not good. How often did you have the diff fluid serviced (bet I know this answer). On a noisey rear diff that had the oil properly maintaned you can drive on it for years that way. pOn your it was run dry, so damage was done. It is still leaking (aparently bad enough to notice as they never leak that badly). Replace the rear diff, otherwise it fail when your in the middle of no where with your car full of crap. Have the front diff checked too. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 yeah nipper you got it.. basically run dry, and now it whines as described above. How long it was virtually dry I actually dont know. It was checked/serviced at the recommended intervals, so at approx. 90k. over a year ago its now at 115k. As for the current leak, there is one, its dripped way too much just to be overflow from changing the oil. It drips about 15 drops a day? I just wiped it off and parked it in a dry spot to see how much accumulates again. So either way I'm leary of driving it long distances, does anyone know how to go about finding a reputable shop here in North Las Vegas? I did a quick search and know NOT to take it to the subaru dealer here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) There's another possibility. It could be the drive shaft support bearing. That's right in the middle of the car, and will also make whining or whirring noise on acceleration if it's bad. I would try to avoid driving it altogether until you figure out the source of the sound and get it fixed. If there were damage to the differential there would have been metal flakes in the oil. The best thing would be to remove the cover (not easy) and examine the gears visually to see if they are worn excessively. Edited September 26, 2009 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 if it's leaking oil it is most likely the rear diff. good news is this isn't that big of a deal, it's a very simple job. there are only 3 bolts holding the diff to the car. very easy to replace, shouldn't cost much at all. i have a known good 4.11 rear diff I can mail you for $75 plus shipping. considering they almost never leak and most folks never have the fluid changed i definitely would not be paying Subaru for a new one. i would definitely replace it before going on a road trip, the bearings are bad. they could last 100,000 miles or 10. really no telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Hey, thanks for the info; and the offer of the differential; I'll decline for now. One band aid treatment that was recommended was "Lucus Oil Treatment" in the place of differential fluid. I was told it slows or sometimes stops leaks. Anyone have any experience with this stuff? or thoughts on using it? I plan on finding someone tomorrow to have a look either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 If you're replacing the diff, doesn't really matter what you do to it, throw anything you like in there the bearings are shot. Not that I would really do it, but i'd probably use Trans-X instead or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 If you're replacing the diff, doesn't really matter what you do to it, throw anything you like in there the bearings are shot. Not that I would really do it, but i'd probably use Trans-X instead or something else. Reminds me of a day long gone, when they put sawdust inside the diffs, just before selling the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Reminds me of a day long gone, when they put sawdust inside the diffs, just before selling the car Saw dust inside the diff, yea, I haven't heard or thought of that trick in a long long time. Shady used car lots used to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Saw dust inside the diff, yea, I haven't heard or thought of that trick in a long long time. Shady used car lots used to do that. Haa shady indeed! I've never heard of that. I guess I shoulda stressed that I would rather use a band aid that would get me about 2k mi, than actually deal with it properly right now. I'm really not in a position to deal with it at this point unfortunately. Just dont have the time or money. I dont think i'll be going the saw dust route though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 i'd read some labels of stuff if no one here has differential level experience. Trans X works good in some situations, i'd probably have a look at that. It's just a diff, they aren't that complicated and it's shot so I'd just have at it. I never recommend stop leak kind of stuff, but here it might be the ticket for short term fix and a junk part anyway. If it's a leaky side seal, those are replaceable but you probably don't want to do that either? Install a drip tube from your trunk down into the vent tube for the diff!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well, If you're in LasVegas, you might be a gambler:) It would cost what...$150.00 or so to fix it now. Gear oil is expensive, so depending on how much it leaks in 2K miles, it could add up. If it disintergrates on that trip, it could get very expensive. I only gamble if I like the odds. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Haa shady indeed! I've never heard of that. I guess I shoulda stressed that I would rather use a band aid that would get me about 2k mi, than actually deal with it properly right now. I'm really not in a position to deal with it at this point unfortunately. Just dont have the time or money. I dont think i'll be going the saw dust route though. No that just silences the noise for the sale, it wont last many miles. Make sure your AAA membership is paid up. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) Well, If you're in LasVegas, you might be a gambler:) It would cost what...$150.00 or so to fix it now. Gear oil is expensive, so depending on how much it leaks in 2K miles, it could add up. If it disintergrates on that trip, it could get very expensive. I only gamble if I like the odds. Doug Most people that are in vegas living here dont gamble from what I can tell, I'm only a part timer or something I guess. But what is the $150.00 solution? I'll take it! I'm assuming youre talking about just the seals and whatnot? Seriously I was given estimates of about $800, there is metal in the oil, and according to the mechanic the "spider joints" are bad and a whole buncha crap. So a new rear diff is called for. Edited September 29, 2009 by D13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hi, Gary offered:"i have a known good 4.11 rear diff I can mail you for $75 plus shipping." I can't imagined that whole diff costing much from a junk yard either. Combine that with install at an independant shop, like the guy you initially took it to. Well it may run you more than $150.00. Whatever the cost, $250.00?, it's not that expensive. There's very few bolts holding that whole rear in the car and I doubt it would take more than an hour to install on his lift. I wouldn't rebuild yours at all. It's not worth it, they're in lots of yards and relatively inexpensive. They rarely fail, that's why. Was not my intention to insult you, just making a point. You will be rolling the dice with it on a 2K trip. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 ^^ Cool, I wasn't sure if you were talking about the whole job done for that price or not. The shop I spoke to today said 350 for the part and 450 labor. Thats not my price range, and from what I can tell, thats a bit high. The subaru dealer all reviews said to stay away from just called and quoted 905 for the assembly, and 300 in labor. yeah im lookin for the cheap option. anyone know of any sited that has a list of mechanics that have experience on subarus? I'm having a hard time trusting all these sketchy guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) search for your part here: www.car-part.com . sort your search by distance. all outback rear diffs will work 96 - 04, maybe to '09. if you look in 01 - 04 range you might get lucky and find a VLSD rear diff for only 25$ more. (that's viscous limited slip diff.) vlsd was available in some models in '01, and standard in most in 03 , i think. the car-part site will refer to them as "locking". just make sure it comes from an outback. you can probably get the part for 50 - 75$, i'd buy it and carry it around until i needed it, if i couldn't afford to do it all now.. good luck. Edited September 29, 2009 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) excuse the machine gun posting here... Ok so i've been searching the salvage sites, and I'm getting a bit confused. I know I need a 4.11 rear differential, but all the sites dont have it listed that easily, so what the heck am I looking for? Rear diff assembly? I'd assume that sounds right. Nothing has come up on any searches.. hmm. seems like i'm doing something wrong. I keep getting crazy quotes $2,000. huh, wonder what they looked up. Edited September 29, 2009 by D13 added a sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 rear diffs can be hard to come by for some reason (read subeman's recent debacle trying to get one). you are correct - rear differential assembly. type in your model year and all the info and it'll cross reference everything for you. whatever it lists will work (assuming the yard categorized it properly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 also see 'carrier'. the 4.11 rear diff was used in the 95 -01 legacy 2.2L automatic trans and in the 96 - 05 2.5L manual trans. lots to choose from. the ones near you are twice as expensive as the ones in PA, NY, VA, NH, etc. it may be cheaper to have it shipped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) "the ones near you are twice as expensive as the ones in PA, NY, VA, NH, etc. it may be cheaper to have it shipped in." Or pick one up on your trip? What I see here in the rust belt is that they go to the crusher. I mean, If a yard has a couple of open diffs in stock, and they're not selling that many, snag the low mileage ones and let the rest go. Mabie a board member can supply and install one for you? Doug Edit: One listed in my neck of the woods is $200.00. You will pay less buying from an individual. A 1K dollar Toyota engine at the wrecker here, from an individual was $200.00, a recent purchase. For about the same quality and mileage too. Edited September 30, 2009 by Quidam Add text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 So with the continuing search, Does it matter what I put in there as far as LSD and non? locking non locking.. same thing. I would prefer whatever is the simplest, and easiest to get in there. and how would I find out what i currently have, perhaps a stupid question, but looked through my documentation and cant find any info. I think I've found one that seems ok and will fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 As long as the gear ratio is the same as the one you are replacing you can use either. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Somewhere around here I read nobody ever keeps posting the results after getting advice.. so ... I finally got the rear diff today, looks good as far as I can see. (150$) After calling and calling and getting prices all over the board, and combined with checking the better business bureau.. finally got a reasonable quote to install from a reputable mechanic. $150+ cost of fluid. So assuming everything is correct and goes as planned it should be done by tomorrow for under $400, I would have rather had it done a few weeks ago, but oh well. Thanks for everyones help and advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justintime Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I recently bought a 2003 sub forrester w/ 67000 miles. Now with 76000 miles a whine developed and continued to get worse. I checked the front diff fluid and sure enough, with a flash light you could see the sparkle of metal flakes:eek: The drain plug which is magnetic also had some attached. Now I have to replace the transaxle(front diff) which isn't cheap. If you experience this particular whine you might have a bearing going out in the front diff. Which means replacing the front transaxle. Not even Saw dust can help you now! From what I've heard this is rare for a subaru with such low mileage to have such a problem. The car is in great shape otherwise. Too bad I really liked my Subaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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