Crank Pulley came loose & mangled keyway...but...

[CouponBarbie]

I drive a 1995 Impreza wagon (manual) with about 163,000 miles. A few days ago, while driving on the freeway, suddenly the brake light and battery light came on. I thought my car had stalled but it was running so I quickly exited and realized that my power steering had quit working. I parked the car and turned it off (my Dad taught me well ; ) Then had it towed the 30 miles to my mechanic.

Basically he said the crank pulley had come lose and "messed up the end of the pin" his words. From my research on this site I had found that this is a reasonable fix if the mechanic knows what he's doing. My question is, how long is a reasonable amount of time to get a new crank pulley? They are trying to tell me that if one can be found in the area it'll take a day but if its out of state it may take three or four. Is this part really that difficult to find? I live in Virginia Beach and dont see a lot of older subarus on the road but really? Four days?

Also, the mechanic is trying to tell me that they wont be going into the engine far enough to warrant changing the water pump & timming belt and other things that have been reccomended on this site. I'd rather they just check those out and replace them to prevent possible problems later on.

My car runs great (normally) and has no body damage. I still have at least another 100,000 to put on it and would really like hear what you guys think of this situation.

[ericem]

Well heres the thing when was the last timing belt done??

 

This has happened to many people including myself. I just went to the dealer and bought a new one. Was like $200 and bought the key. All it involves is removing the belts. Loosening the bolt (for you its easy leave it in 5th with parking brake on) and removing the pulley. Then get some pliers and really try your best to yank out the keyway. It will be mangled but will come out with some good linesmens or even um channel locks etc. Once out clean up some debree with oil. Then push in the new key, put on the new pulley. And tighten the bolt to 120-140ft-lbs. Be sure to clean the bolt threads good to. I usually just wiped them clean, then put a bit of motor oil on the bolt threads so it spins nicely. Then put back the accessory belts.

 

What I am saying is its a very easy job and just to go to your local dealer and get the parts! Also compare prices to like genuine subaru parts and the dealer they can usually price match. Good luck!

[CouponBarbie]

Thanks for the quick reply. Sadly I just got the call all subaru owners (car owners really) hate to hear, The crank pulley wore out the crank shaft so I am now looking for a like new, used engine. Anyone have one? It needs to fit a 1995 SUbaru Impreza wagon. If you know of any good places to look that will help. Quite a while ago my Dad, sister and I put in one of those used engines from Japan (it had previously been put in my '82 GL wagon and we put it in my sisters GL after I wrecked mine.)

If I remember correctly that engine was around $800, purchased from a Couer D'Alene ID importer.

But now I'm on the East Coast and could use some help locating an good engine for a good price in the area.

[ericem]

It actually wore out the crankshaft?! Even if the tip was a bit worn it could still work as long as it has a good key and a new pulley. The bolt should support it pretty straight. Pretty crazy. Sad to hear though

 

Is your car 2.2l? I am sure you can source another one easily and for cheap.

[john in KY]

Can you post a photo of the damage? My guess is the crankshaft can be saved as long as at least some of the keyway is still there. My concern is someone sees an opportunity to make a bunch of money off of you.

[OB99W]

The crank pulley bolt, when properly tightened, doesn't tend to loosen by itself. Typically what happens is that the timing belt is changed, and the bolt is inadequately torqued when the pulley is remounted. If work that required removing the pulley was done within the last several thousand miles, whomever did the work is likely responsible for the damage.

 

Can you post a picture of the wear? It's sometimes possible to fix the problem without engine replacement.

 

EDIT: John in KY beat me to it, but we're both thinking the same thing.

Edited October 15, 2009 by OB99W

[CouponBarbie]

My engine is a 2.2l and I will post pictures tomorrow afternoon.

 

The strangest part about this is that I don't know the last time the timming belt was changed. I purchased the car used (private sale) in Jan 2002 with 110,000 miles on it. It now has around 163,000. I dont ever recall having the timming belt changed. Does this seem weird? Could the crank pulley just losen up on its own? Could it losen up over years?

 

I also wonder if the shop I have it at is just kinda worried that I'll come back and complain if something else goes wrong after they try to fix the crankshaft. My Dad (living in Washington State) is about ready to fly here just to fix it! Its difficult for me because I know a lot about Subarus and have worked on all mine with my Dad. But I dont know everything!

Now I'm on my own and really need some expert advice from people who have been there.

[lmdew]

I have about 6 or so Cranck Shaft pulleys and I think I have a good key as well. $40 shipped Priority mail.

Lmdew@hotmail.com

[Fairtax4me]

You weren't the one tying up traffic on E264 in the rain last Saturday were you?

 

I'm just kidding, but there was an Impreza sedan on the side of the road with the hood up.

 

Seems kinda strange that the crank bolt would stay put for 7+ years and then just work it's way loose randomly. (but knowing the way the roads are there, it could be possible) :-p

 

Did you have it in for service any time recently? (any kind of service)

[ericem]

actualy makes sence to assume at 100k the belt was done. The bolt wouldn't just back off. If anything would be less likely to fall off lol.

 

but if fairtax is right maybe the roads are to rough?!

[davebugs]

I have a thread here abotu fixing one of these within the past year - it has pics.

 

Well it has pics of everything but the fixing (welding, grinding, slot celanup) on the crank. But you can clearly see how trached the sprocket, harmonic balancer, oil pump, etc was and we were able to fix it.

[mdjdc]

I'm up in Richmond and I'm pretty sure that I have a pulley. Come on up and I will give it to you. While you are here I can explain how you can fix this and not have to replace the engine. I've done it before. I know I wouldn't drop in another engine over this issue.

 

PM me if you are interested.

[lostinthe202]

The T-belt interval on a '95 2.2 is 60k so yours should've been done at 120k assuming the first belt interval was honored. This doesn't mean that the pulley should've loosened up, but the other thing that can happen is that there is a rubber insulator between the metal part the belt rides on and the metal part that rides on the crank. Those have been known to separate from each other.

 

If you decide to try and fix it (it's worth a shot at least) I highly recommend doing the front end work of the T-belt and assorted bits. Do some searching on here using the "advanced search" and you'll find tons of info on what to do along with your timing belt.

 

Good luck!

[s'ko]

I call BS on the crank being worn enough that you have to replace the entire engine.

 

i had a crank pulley back out on me and I was able to roadside fix it w/some rubber washers and little bit of JB Weld. It's was still holding up fine until someone rear ended my BRAT.

 

The crank pulley is there to turn your power steering, AC and alternator. It really doesn't have that much resistance and I doubt that it was worn enough to make a huge difference in the way that the crank pulley seats.

 

Get a new pulley, replace the t-belts, tensioners, pulleys water pump and drive it for another 60K. A t-belt job in the EJs are pretty straight forward. and will cost about 300 bucks in parts. Down time is about a day, maybe two if you are doing it for the first time. If you do plan to tackle this, it might not be a bad idea to also change out the cam shaft seals.

 

Good Luck

 

BW

[CouponBarbie]

Hi Everyone! Here is an update:After checking through my matienence paperwork I found that the timming belt, crank seal, and valve cover gaskets were last changed in June of 2005. Seems like a long time for that crank pulley to be loosening (4 years?).

At any rate, my mechanic found a crank pulley and is sure he can fix it without having to put in another engine. I will be having the other parts changed as well (seals, timming belt, might as well, and water pump) just so I wont be doing it again in 30,000 miles.

I really appreciate all of your comments and helpful hints. You all are the best and it is nice to find people who love their subaru's just as much as I do. I'll let you know how it goes, should have her back by Monday night : )

~B~

[CouponBarbie]

BAD NEWS! This morning on my wat to work it happened again. I'm awaiting the verdict for what actually happened but the symptoms were the same. So, what is your opinion, do I have them try the same repair again (the last one lasted 8 months but a lot of miles) or do I have to replace the engine this time?

I really love this car, great body, hardly any rust, so a new or rebuilt engine would give me many more years but man I just don't know what is better long run.

Thank you!

Barbie

[lone500]

this happened to me on my 94 legacy. didnt leave me stranded at least.

 

picked up a new pulley for 50 bucks. took my stuff off to get down to the crank key. ground it off flush then had to grind down in the crank sprocket a little bit to get it loose.

 

took off the crank sprocket and put my new key in and reassembled everything.

 

i put like 200+ pounds of torque on the crank pulley bolt so it wont do it again!

 

edit- when reassembled you HAVE to put at least something like 130 pounds. in the manuals i think it says to do it 95 lbs in some and 120 in others. i really prefer 150 minimum and of course i went 200 pounds just to make sure. no problems yet

Edited June 7, 2010 by lone500

[CouponBarbie]

Interesting about the lbs of torque, I wonder how much my mechanic put on it. This is beyond my scope as far as doing the work myself. The mechanic isnt interested in fixing it for the second time, and I dont really blame him. I am having an engine guy look at tomorrow, see what he thinks about fixing it again. I'd really not have to worry about again. Any opinions on welding it on (I know it would hold for good but....there are drawbacks of course)....

[swami2806]

I had a crank pulley blow out at 60K miles! This didn't do anything to the crankshaft, but it tore up the timing covers, some idlers or tensioners (don't remember) and the water pump. Turned out the rubber dampener let go and the pulley separated from its hub.

 

On my Dodge pickup I had the exact same thing happen--mechanic (this was all done by the PO) didn't tighten the crank bolt after changing the timing chain and the pulley, harmonic balancer and key "machined" the end of the crankshaft down. On a 318, the worse that can happen is the crankshaft won't be balanced, so it usually won't leave you stranded.

[lone500]

well you can permanently attach your crank pulley to your crank sprocket.

 

i just advise against this since it could make such a headache down the road.

[johnceggleston]

i had a 93 that did this. my mechanic "glued " it back together with a "permanent" loctite product. he also replaced everything possible before he put it back together which meant i would get at least another 60k out of it.i ended up wrecking it a year later.

 

i'll bet the shop doing the repair didn't torque to the required 140 ft lbs.

 

fix it and drive it. it's cheaper than buying anything else.

[Mike104]

Here is a link to a loctite repair on crankshaft pulleys

 

http://www.miata.net/garage/hsue/LoctiteCrank1.html

 

Maybe have them put in a new bolt with loctite as well? Definitely use the higher end of the allowable torque.

[idosubaru]

can you take a picture of it? i'd be really surprised if it's not repairable. the fact that this was so hard on you the first time and he doesn't want to repair it again tells me you at least need a new mechanic for this one job. i'm not even a mechanic and i've fixed this before. sorry if you really dig this guy but this is silly not having it repaired (right).

 

+1 to what they said the crank, it should be VERY tight. i don't even go by torque values on it, i use a 3 foot pipe and give it a LOT. i'm guessing i'm pushing 200+ pounds.

 

what if he used a lock washer?

 

here's what i would do if you were going to fix the crank pulley:

1. reseal the oil pump, can't get to it without removing the pulley.

2. tack weld the pulley so it doesn't come apart - weld across the rubber dampening material that can separate.

3. install all new timing components - get the ebay kits they're all brand new pulleys and tensioner for a reasonable price.

 

if you drove the car long enough for another timing belt change you can even replace the timing belt without removing the crank pulley. you'd have to crack open the center timing belt cover - just install a used one or run without it like a bunch of us do.

[Gloyale]

Any opinions on welding it on (I know it would hold for good but....there are drawbacks of course)....

 

You don't weld the pulley onto the crank. You just weld the key into the crank.

 

Steps....

 

Remove tbelt covers and T-belt and idlers.

 

Remvoe the oil pump.

 

Coat the area that the oil pump mates to with anti spatter gel from welding store, for use on MIG and TIG tips. stuff a bit of steel wool into the oil passages carefully and put anti spatter on them as well. you don't want slag in your oil passages.

 

Place a new key in the crank, and with few small beads weld it to the crank. Grind and file until the profile is correct to slip a new pulley over.

 

Reinstall everything

 

Use blue loctite on the crank bolt, and torque the BEJEEZUS out of it. 5th gear, e-brake on, 3 foot cheater on a breker bar, tighten it till it won't go more. Unless you are superman, you won't be risking overtightening, the crank and bolt are very hard steel.

 

The key is just for positioning of the crank sprocket. If the pulley bolt is tight enough, the keyway should not be under any load while running. It's only when the pulley works loose that the keyway takes all the rotational force.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Gloyale

[idosubaru]

i've actually installed two in mangled cranks without any key, never seemed to make a difference. on older stuff you just loose your timing mark positioning but there's a couple ways around that.