crazyman03 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 so like a lot of 'roos i've owned i'm replacing a cv axle. i did have a question though.. has anyone bought one from a junk yard? are pickings for them any good? i'd buy it new but i dont have ~200 bucks to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolicense Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Ive found axles that look brand new in junkyards quite a few times, my brother picked up some gcks from the yard that were brand new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 ok, now heres a stupid question. /could/ you use a driver side axle on the passenger side? they look relitively the same length... ea82, 5-speed, gl wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I buy the new EMPI axles - about $60 each. Don't know where you are shopping for axles but $200 sounds like a dealership price. If you go used, then regrease/reboot them. Subaru's are *symetrical* AWD/4WD machines. Axles are 100% indentical left/right - 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caramanos2000 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I got crappy autozone axles for $60 each with a lifetime warranty:banana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 wow, i dont even want to know what one i usually get. i looked up checker online and did see 2 differences in axles. a fwd and a 4wd. why would there be a difference in the 2 if the vehicle is fwd untill you "switch" it in to 4wd. .. interesting.. anyway thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 i'll add to GD's description by saying auto's and manuals are also interchangeable all day long. only difference is between turbo and non-turbo - the spline count is different. junk yard axles usually have dry rotted or less than desirable boots. even when replacing 2000-ish axles used that's an issue. they soon crack, so plan on replacing the boots. still not a bad deal - $30 for an axle and boot costs gives you a genuine Subaru axle for $100 or less. annoying, but given the horrific nature of after market axles it's worth it if you don't have time to take the chance with after markets. MWE rebuilds Subaru axles out of Denver for $75-ish ($125 for XT6) with a core charge. Shipping can be a pain but it's worth it for the quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 2WD (FWD) and 4WD axles have different joint and shaft diameter's. They are 100% interchangable but the 4WD shafts are stronger. The EMPI brand axles have been good to me. I've used quite a few of them and haven't have a problem yet. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 MWE rebuilds Subaru axles out of Denver for $75-ish ($125 for XT6) with a core charge. Shipping can be a pain but it's worth it for the quality. Do you happen to know which parts of the rebuilts are new/replaced and which are used core parts? What is the core charge? What to you usually pay for shipping? How long does it take to get them? What is the warranty or return policy? This "debate" over MWE or Aftermarket comes up a lot, so I would just like to suss-out a real comparison. There have been plenty of testimonials on each side and I will add a little bit more. I use the EMPIs, and my last set went for 40,000 miles until I took them on a 100 mile drive on wash-board gravel logging roads. They did not like that. They didn't grenade, but they were done. I put another set on, and they have been perfect for 2-3K now. It's my pet theory that the tighter tolerances of the new axles do not tolerate the drivetrain and other slop that most of these older cars have, while the ball-bearing remans have some intrinsic wear and different design that absorbs more of the slop. In my opinion, my car does fine with EMPIs because I have replaced and torqued just about everything in the drivetrain and suspension and it is relatively tight. Vibrations in a drivetrain would have a similar effect that the gravel roads had on my car. There are so many factors that effect the axles (trans. mounts, u-joints, transaxle stubs, wheel bearings, alignment, wheel balance, castle nut torque, etc.) that it is hard to isolate. I think both the EMPIs and MWE are good axles, but if you are going to choose one I think the real question is...what condition is your car in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) i wouldn't contribute it to "slop" as you say, but i don't think it matters. the MWE's would not experience problems either way. i don't view this as an argument or disagreement, just multiple options. doesn't seem like an in depth discussion on this is really profitable at all, it reminds me of the oil debates. ask MWE but i believe he inspects everything and replaces parts that need to be replaced. XT6 axles are more expensive because the parts are more expensive, at least i think, i don't care i just want a good axle that i don't have to worry about or ever change. what it comes down to is price and time. MWE's to the average person are annoying to deal with shipping and the core charges. i like the idea of paying an individual and not a company too, and get high quality out of it. i do that across other areas i purchase as well. if you want cheap and easy access - then going with GD's preference makes total sense and is probably a better fit for most people. i put a 2" lift on my new XT6, strut only, no engine/trans spacers, and intense angles on my axles. the brand new, still had the label on them, axles couldn't take it. vibration through turns that lingered while driving straight. put my few year old MWE's on and no problem. Edited October 17, 2009 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 As far as rebuilding axles goes - I've done a fair number of dissasemble, clean, regrease/reboot jobs and I've never had an issue with that either. Typically the "problems" people exprience are from bad/no grease or from improper installation. I've rebooted axles after cleaning and applying new grease that were very loose on the tollerances - never had an issue yet. I often just buy the EMPI's because it's like $120 for both front axles vs. $75 for grease and boots plus the time and mess of replacing the boots, and the possibility of buggering up the threads on the axle shaft if they don't want to release from the bearings easily. I just did one where the inner bearing came out of the knuckle still attached to the axle. With a new set of axles sitting next to the car I don't have to worry about stuff like that. I'm sure MWE does a fine job, but I haven't had the misfortune of a repeat axle failure except on my lifted wagon - and even then it's only been 1 or 2 times that I've replaced the front's. The EMPI suff isn't remaned - it's an entirely new axle - made in China of course, but new none-the-less. EMPI is known for their parts quality in the VW aftermarket and these are definately not made by the same supplier that made the GCK stuff. My only complaint is that they come with the roll-pin and the axle nut, but no cotter pin?!? I mean - I can almost always reuse the roll-pin but I prefer a new cotter pin every time. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 wow, i dont even want to know what one i usually get. i looked up checker online and did see 2 differences in axles. a fwd and a 4wd. why would there be a difference in the 2 if the vehicle is fwd untill you "switch" it in to 4wd. .. interesting.. anyway thanks!Oddly enough, fwd axles are stronger than awd axles since they can't share the load of moving the car with the rear axles. Certainly no reason you can't use a fwd axle since they'll fit; only difference is the shaft diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Oddly enough, fwd axles are stronger than awd axles since they can't share the load of moving the car with the rear axles. Certainly no reason you can't use a fwd axle since they'll fit; only difference is the shaft diameter. I think you are confusing the Legacy/Impreza axles with the EA series. The FSM shows the shaft/joint diameter to be larger on the 4WD EA series cars than the FWD axles. That's been my expience with them as well. I know what you are talking about with the Legacy axles though. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think you are confusing the Legacy/Impreza axles with the EA series. The FSM shows the shaft/joint diameter to be larger on the 4WD EA series cars than the FWD axles. That's been my expience with them as well. I know what you are talking about with the Legacy axles though. GD Certainly possible; I noticed the difference in shaft diameter in the FSM quite a while ago; could quite possibly have been a Legacy version and not the GL version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 i wouldn't contribute it to "slop" as you say, but i don't think it matters. the MWE's would not experience problems either way. i don't view this as an argument or disagreement, just multiple options. doesn't seem like an in depth discussion on this is really profitable at all, it reminds me of the oil debates. It may not be profitable if we just share opinions, but I was asking questions about MWEs for the benefit of people who ask about axles. It comes up all the time and people get opinions, but not a lot of actual information about the axles and real costs, etc. ask MWE but i believe he inspects everything and replaces parts that need to be replaced. XT6 axles are more expensive because the parts are more expensive, at least i think, i don't care i just want a good axle that i don't have to worry about or ever change. what it comes down to is price and time. MWE's to the average person are annoying to deal with shipping and the core charges. i like the idea of paying an individual and not a company too, and get high quality out of it. i do that across other areas i purchase as well. I was just asking you because you post-up about MWEs consistently, and I thought you could share some knowledge about them. i put a 2" lift on my new XT6, strut only, no engine/trans spacers, and intense angles on my axles. the brand new, still had the label on them, axles couldn't take it. vibration through turns that lingered while driving straight. put my few year old MWE's on and no problem.This is my point about the new (needle bearing) axles not being well suited for applications that require absorption of vibrations or articulation that causes undue loading or friction on the bearings. It would seem that the ball bearing design and broken in parts of the reman MWE are more forgiving. You seem knowledgable about MWEs. With the anticipation that somebody might ask about axles again, I was thinking it might be nice to just consolidate people's collective knowledge for a real comparison. That way when someone asks again they can get the quick, informative run-down to make their own decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 right on, i don't know how MWE does it. i know he buys "new" parts of some sort, but not sure what. he's been rebuilding Subaru axles for a really long time and has a great reputation. good point, wondering what the differences are and what you're paying for. i do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 welp, new axle + air tools = happy crazyman! I managed to install my new axle last night. the old one (as I'm sure its not a surprise to many) came apart in 2 pieces. I picked up a 60$ fwd axle from checker auto. I do believe it was a thicker shaft now that i think about it.. my question about that is why would it matter the difference between fwd and 4wd? since the car is full-time "fwd" until you either push the button or lift the range selector. It would have the same "load" probably 90% of the seasonal time; and seriously, how often do you put it into 4wd anyway. I usually don't use it all that much unless it snows and I'm really /stuck/! becides the fact that they can charge you for a different type. anyway. like i said i got the axle out, the tie-rod was a pita. and like a dip, i pounded on it without anything on the top to absorb the force and mushroomed the top. :-/ looks like I'm not going to be driving it until i can find a new one. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think the idea with the older EA series cars is not so much that the 2WD's would have less load, but that the 4WD's would be driven like a 4WD. I can scan FSM pages showing the actual size differences but it's really not that big of a deal. The 2WD axles will work fine if you aren't abusing them too badly. Also - many aftermarket manufacturers only make the 4WD axles. Why even bother making 2WD axles if the 4WD's are stronger and fit both applications? That's what I've found anyway. There is no such garuantee with the rebuilder's though. You get what you get. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 anyway. like i said i got the axle out, the tie-rod was a pita. and like a dip, i pounded on it without anything on the top to absorb the force and mushroomed the top. :-/ looks like I'm not going to be driving it until i can find a new one. For future reference, disconnecting the tie-rod end is not necessary for replacing axles if that is the reason you did it. And a $6-$10 tie rod/ball joint puller is worth the money. Sometimes the hammer works fine, sometimes it doesn't, and it's better to not bang on that stuff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) Typically I just thread the castle nut on upside down and give it a sharp blow with a copper/brass hammer. Sometimes I hurt them doing this, but 90% of the time they just pop loose. The other 10% they probably are so stuck that few methods short of an O/A torch would get them loose without damage. Plus I have thread files and can fix them if I screw up a thread or two. As noted though there's no need to disconnect them for a simple axle swap. I do it for the wheel bearings because then I can just turn the whole knuckle around backward to install the inner bearing. Don't use the "pickle fork" style ball joint seperators - they will mangle the grease boot 100% of the time. Use an actual puller/pusher with a threaded driver in it. You can often "rent" these at many of the bigger auto parts chains. Basically you pay for the tool and you have a gauranteed refund on it or just keep it if you figure you will use it again. GD Edited October 18, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 i removed it because i needed a bit more up/down/left/right flexibility. maybe it was just the way i disassembled it that made me need to disconnect it. but meh, live and learn. it worked out either way, just should've payed more attention to how i was banging... -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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