Engine stalls after starting...cold or hot

[Freeze plug]

I'm a new guy here (American, living in New Zealand) and getting a bit desperate. I've got a '97 Legacy SW with auto-trans that originally had an 1.8L engine, but has been refitted by a previous owner with a 2.2L. It's been in and out of 3 different shops in the past 3 months and, and $800 later, none of them has a clue as to what might be wrong. The closest Subaru dealer is 8 hours from here.

 

These are the symptoms:

1. Starts just fine...either hot or cold.

2. Put it in gear and it dies, but restarts easily.

3. Move a few feet and it dies again. Re-starts just fine. This can repeat 8 or 10 times....always at low speed such as that required to get out of a parking lot and onto the street.

4. If I floor it and get up to 20-30 MPH, it will run fine until I shut it off, then the whole thing starts again, even if only after only a couple minutes...even if the engine is still hot.

5. Sometimes it starts up and runs just fine. Two of the shops thought they had it fixed after they'd monkeyed with something then it test drove OK. I picked it up and, yep, same problem.

 

 

So far the following has been done:

1. Replace MAP sensor

2. Replace TPS sensor

3. Cam belt was found to be off a couple cogs and readjusted

4. ECT and vacuum checked

5. Idle control valve replaced

6. ECU "inspected"

 

None of the shops know if the ECU that's in the car is the one that was with the old 1.8 engine or was replaced when the 2.2 was installed. The numbers on the ECU...if it's of any help...are 7H 22644 AA010 PCMF A-060 C3 6821. The shop it's in right now thinks the problem must be the main computer since all the systems seem to be OK. Both of the last two shops have tried to find a computer (ECU) in New Zealand but can't locate one.

 

When I'm having the problem, there's no Check Engine lite, and most often, there's no new fault code on the computer.

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

Can someone tell me if any ECU's are interchangeable? I see a few of them advertised on the Kiwi version of E-bay, but none of the sellers have a clue.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm worried that it will cost as much to fix the problem as the car is worth.

[lmdew]

If you leave it in park or neutral does it do the same thing?

 

If you drive in Rev does it die as well?

 

I'm thinking it may be a trans issue.

[Freeze plug]

It seems to idle just fine in park or neutral, but I'll have to pay particular attention to it today. It seems that it only dies or loses power once I try to accelerate even if VERY gently.

 

Yes, it does happen in reverse, too.

 

I didn't know there was anything in the transmission that could cause anything like I'm having. None of the 3 shops it's been to have ever mentioned it.

[lmdew]

Make sure you check the trans fluid level, color and smell. If the Trans torque conveter locking up to early could be causing your drag on the engine. It's a long shot, but a possibility.

[Log1call]

Hi fellow New Zealander. Where in N.Z are you?(Edit)... Oh, Golden Bay.

 

Have they checked the fuel pressure, the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel flow?

Have they checked the trans neutral switch?

Has anyone tried driving with a scan tool attached to the car to see what is happening?

Have you asked them to remove all those bits they have fitted that weren't needed?

 

I'm also very suspicious about the idea that the cam timing was out by two teeth. That is a long way out and would make the car run badly. Was it running bad before they changed the timing? Is it running differently now they have changed it?

[Freeze plug]

Here are some answers to questions some of you have asked...hope it helps narrow things down. Answers in italics.

 

If you leave it in park or neutral does it do the same thing? Yes it does.

 

Have they checked the fuel pressure, the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel flow? One of the shops checked the fuel pressure, but I'm not sure about the regulator or fuel flow.

Have they checked the trans neutral switch? Not sure.

Has anyone tried driving with a scan tool attached to the car to see what is happening? Not sure...but then I don't know what a scan tool is.

Have you asked them to remove all those bits they have fitted that weren't needed? Yes, the parts that didn't work were removed and they didn't charge me for them. Most all the cost so far has been for troubleshooting.

 

Make sure you check the trans fluid level, color and smell. If the Trans torque conveter locking up to early could be causing your drag on the engine. It's a long shot, but a possibility. Trans fluid level, color and smell are OK. Curiously though, right before this problem started, I had a trans leak fixed...they replaced a gasket. I'm wondering now if they might have un-fixed something else while they were at it.

 

Today, for the 1st time in ages, I didn't have the problem till the 3rd time I stopped and re-started. Now, it's back!

 

I haven't heard anyone concur that the problem might be in the ECU. Any thoughts on this?

 

I'm worried that the fix may run into more dollars than the car is worth. I've already invested about $700 and the car might be worth a couple thousand at best.

[Log1call]

I'm glad to hear they are taking the un-needed parts back off.

 

A scan tool plugs into a diagnostic socket and lets you read what all the sensors are reading and all the actuators are doing as the motor is running.

 

Have a read here, perhaps you can convince one of the local mechanics to invest the forty odd dollars.... http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,5652.0.html

 

I'm a mechanic, if they want to pick my brains they can P.M. me.

[CNY_Dave]

Long-shot but... broken bit in the exhaust system that is acting like a 'flapper' valve and slamming shut as soon as any load is put on the engine?

 

Collapsed exhaust in general?

 

Dave

[hankosolder2]

I second the idea of using a scan tool and also monitoring fuel pressure.

 

It might also be worth checking the ignition and fuel pump relays. (I'm pretty sure but far from positive that this vehicle has them.) Pitted contacts or bad internal solder connections can cause a host of symptoms. It would also make sense with the whole "runs perfectly until it is shut off again" aspect (the relays only cycle when the car is turned on and off.)

 

Nathan