biz_first Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 96 Legacy Outback, AT, 2.5. First noticed as binding and "clunking" noise from REAR when backing and turning (parking lots). Now have when going forward and turning at slow speed. Definately coming from rear. Feels like right side. Will slow car as it binds rolling at idol speed, feels like I am rolling over a rock. Prior to finding this forum, I carfully inspected all wheels, brakes, CV's, driveshaft, and bushings. Looked in differential fill plug, used wand magnet. Found nothing, no metal shavings,no leaks, excessive play, etc. So, I did what any normal male would do, I replaced the rear CV/half shafts. Problem still exists. AT Oil Temp light flashes 16 times. Fuse in AWD holder under hood does not illuminate any lights on dash nor help problem. Most of what I end up reading applys to front diff/trans. Rear diff. has no wires going to it. Correct? This would eliminate any electrical, solenoid, sensors, or the likes from the possible problem. Right? Codes? Winter is coming! I need any advice I can get. I don't want to take the rear differential out and apart unless I need to. Thanks very much in advance, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Welcome aboard, Andy. Sounds like torque bind for sure--that happens in the rear housing of the tranny, not in the rear diff. The AWD clutches get worn and don't work properly. Since the fuse in the FWD holder doesn't seem to help you, that may suggest a problem with the Duty-C solenoid. I'm no AT expert (others will chime in!) but when was the ATF last changed? Sometimes swapping in new ATF will help the problem unless the AWD clutch plates are too worn. If you want to start doing some studying on it, try the "similar threads" at the left bottom of this page. Or use the search function up top and search "torque bind." Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 The light flashing means the TCU has code(s) stored. You could read the code(s) and see what they mean. The fact that the FWD fuse does nothing and it has torque bind and the light is flashing could mean the duty c / transfer duty solenoid is done for. If that's the case, driving it too long like that could damage the transfer clutch itself also. The transfer clutch is in the rear extension housing, the duty c is the thing with the wire on it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 If it happens to have more weight on the front tires than the rear tires, torque bind would show up as the rear tire skipping on turns, even though it really has nothing to do with the rear end. It's just that the different ends are wanting to turn different speeds and can't due to the torque bind, and the rear is the one that skips first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Where are you located? I'm sure there are board members willing to help you fix this problem. I'd be willing to bet the house that you have a bad Duty C solenoid and need to fix the drum in the extension housing. I have done several of these and the fix is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz_first Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Cincinnati area here. Thank you all for the replys. Tires all same diameter. Looks like I will be trying the AT oil flush. Then on to the duty c and examining/working/replacing clutches. Confident yet unexperienced. Couple of questions (to start): Reccomedations on AT oil type, additives? 96, AT, 2.5 = Tranny type? Drum in extension housing? = clutch pak? Recommendations for parts supplier? Recommended parts list? Bandaids or duct tape for bloody knuckles? Wish me luck...I'm going in, if AT oil flush does not do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I can tell you right now that the flush will not work. You have a mechanical problem and that must be addressed. Do Not waste the money on all of that oil. You need to remove the extension housing, pull the output shaft and repair the grooves in the drive drum. I wouldn't even replace the clutches. They are around 500.00 and I have never had to replace them. Get a new duty c solenoid from subarupartsforyou. here is the link and the part you need is the first one listed. http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partlistbymod.php?model=Outback&subcat=Transmission+Solenoids When you have the housing snd output shaft off you can pull the drive drum and it's shaft You will see grooves in the drum on the sides of the teeth and you must grind them smooth. I used a dremel. Once you have thet done, you can reassemble everything and it should run like a top. PM me if you have any questions or you can call me direct 804-393-0516 I will help you out any way I can. The fix really isn't that difficult and you can do it in about 2-3 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm bumping this cuz I assume this is what I need to be thinking about. I'd be doing any work at the curbside in front of my apartment. Can I put jackstands under the front (or rear) and get this done without having the car up on a lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 It can be done curbside, but the apartment people might get upset. You need to be careful not to lose any bolts and you will lose 4.5 qts of fluid in the repair. If you feel energetic, come on down to Richmond and we can fix it together in my work shed. That way if it rains we ae covered and if it is cold we can stoke up the fire. I have all of the tools necessary for the fix. PM me if you want to get more info on the repair. I'm bumping this cuz I assume this is what I need to be thinking about. I'd be doing any work at the curbside in front of my apartment. Can I put jackstands under the front (or rear) and get this done without having the car up on a lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 yeah, fluid loss. I'd wondered about that, too. I've all ready 'stained' the asphalt from doing the fuel filter on another car. Even after depressurizing the system, a good bit of fuel hit the ground. No issue from the neighbors but I see the spot everyday and know it's my handiwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 the clutches cost around 45-55 bucks total that was for the Turbo Legacy which has 2 more clutches than a non turbo one. Mine were bought from a supplier for Tranny rebuilds outta Texas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 It can be done curbside, but the apartment people might get upset. You need to be careful not to lose any bolts and you will lose 4.5 qts of fluid in the repair. If you feel energetic, come on down to Richmond and we can fix it together in my work shed. That way if it rains we ae covered and if it is cold we can stoke up the fire. I have all of the tools necessary for the fix. PM me if you want to get more info on the repair. yea doc, throw in warm food and cold drink, and i'll drive up and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If he wants to come down, we can make a day of it and he can provide the food and drink. I'll do all of the hard labor and make sure the tranny is right. yea doc, throw in warm food and cold drink, and i'll drive up and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 My wifes says "sounds like a road trip to me. Let's go." Lemme see what I can put together. No point in all this til I get the tire issue straightened out. Members on my original thread are referancing tire shops that will shave a tire down the right size. That's all news to me! But thanks!! "hold that thought" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Just let me know when you are ready to fix the car and we can get her done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic23 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 hey BIZ...im in columbus... I have my own shop.. I agree that the fluid change is a waste o' money. If you decide that its too big of a deal then head up and we can knock it out.. There are always subarus in the junkyards that we can get the solenoid and housing off of. Let me know. i can also talk you through it over the phone if you get stuck.. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz_first Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thank You All !! I am absolutely totally impressed with the advice and offers of help you people have offered up. Really - outstanding! I started to job this afternoon. Thus far it was as expected after reading this forum. Got the transfer case apart. Clutch drive hub showed the grooves in the side of the teeth. Using a dremmel tool w/1" diameter cutoff wheel (the side) I am able to remove the grooves. Does a pretty nice job. Ran out of cutoff wheels. Got about 3 hrs. in it so far. No hurry. Should recieve Duty solenoid tomorrow and finish grinding clutch drive hub. Hope to get it buttoned back up tomorrow. Any advice on tranfer case lube/treatment? Thank You, Thank You, Thank You......All of You, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic23 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hells yeah... this time the revolution will be computerized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz_first Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Update: Still have torque bind, though greatly reduced. Only in slow tight reverse turns. No longer in front. Repaired all damage on clutch drive hub. Replaced Duty C solinoid. Drve hub was in need of repair as grooves were evident. Duty C was bad, I believe because AT oil light flashed 16 times and putting in fuse for FWD had no effect. Not even lighting FWD light on dash. After repair and still having Torque Bind, I put in fuse and got the FWD light on dash, and........no more torque bind. I might add the car drives great. Like a front weel drive anyway. Coasts way better. No ill effects. So what do you think? TCU? What the risk of driving this car for a while in FWD? Thanks for your patience all, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Update: Still have torque bind, though greatly reduced. Only in slow tight reverse turns. No longer in front. Repaired all damage on clutch drive hub. Replaced Duty C solinoid. Drve hub was in need of repair as grooves were evident. Duty C was bad, I believe because AT oil light flashed 16 times and putting in fuse for FWD had no effect. Not even lighting FWD light on dash. After repair and still having Torque Bind, I put in fuse and got the FWD light on dash, and........no more torque bind. I might add the car drives great. Like a front weel drive anyway. Coasts way better. No ill effects. So what do you think? TCU? What the risk of driving this car for a while in FWD? Thanks for your patience all, Andy change out you fluid, drive it, drain and re-fill, drive it. do it 3 or 4 more times (you have already done it once), it can act like a detergent to help 'clean' any gummed up works. fluid is not free, but compared to the duty c it's pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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