Subaru Overheating - can't figure out why

[motorking]

Hi,

I am the technical training manager for Prestone coolants. Our coolant is compatible with Subie cooling systems even though it does not contain phosphates. We have other corrosion inhibitors to make up for the lack of phosphates.

The follow service bulliten will help you battle the dealer to get your car fixed. They are well aware of the issue you have. The pictures and tables will not ost here, if you want the full TSB, send me an email at Jay.Buckley@Honeywell.com

NUMBER: WWP-99

 

DATE: 02/2004

 

APPLICABILITY:

2000-2002MY Subaru Legacy and Outback;

1999-2002MY Impreza; 1999-2002MY Forester

 

SUBJECT:

Engine Cooling System Conditioner

 

INTRODUCTION

 

Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA) has determined that over time, affected vehicles may develop small external coolant leaks at engine cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal expansion and contraction of engine components caused by the heating and cooling of these parts. To prevent cylinder head gasket leaks from developing or to correct existing leaks, a special Subaru Cooling System Conditioner should be added to affected vehicle cooling systems.

 

This Service Program will involve adding one bottle of Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the engine cooling system.

 

AFFECTED VEHICLES

 

2000-2002 MY Subaru Legacy and Outback with 2.5L engine.

 

1999-2002 MY Impreza with 2.5L engine.

 

1999-2002 MY Forester with 2.5L engine.

 

Affected vehicles are identified in the VIN range chart below. Only vehicles with a 2.5L engine are affected.

 

NOTE :Prior to performing repairs, confirm coverage for potentially affected vehicles by using the Vehicle Coverage Inquiry in the Dealer Communication System (DCS).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vehicles identified in the preceding chart may include VINs that were not distributed in the U.S. market. Dealers will be provided a list of VINs that include the owner name and address. This information will enable dealers follow-up with owners of potentially affected vehicles. These listings contain owners names and addresses obtained from State Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any other purpose is unlawful. Accordingly dealers are urged to limit the use of this listing only for the purpose of completion of this service program.

 

OWNER NOTIFICATION

 

SOA prepare and mail an Owner Notification Letter to owners of the affected vehicles. Because of the number of vehicles affected and parts availability, owner notification will occur on or about the dates listed in the following four stages.

 

1999 MY - February 16, 2004

2000 MY - March 1, 2004

2001 MY - April 1, 2004

2002 MY - May 3, 2004

 

A copy of the owner notification letter is included at the end of this bulletin.

 

OWNER REIMBURSEMENT FOR PREVIOUS REPAIRS

 

Owners are being advised in the owner notification letter, found at the end of this bulletin, that if they have previously paid an authorized Subaru dealer for repairs related to this Service Program, they may be entitled to reimbursement. The owners are further advised, to qualify for any reimbursement they must submit the original repair invoice to Subaru of America, Inc. Please review the owner notification letter, which explains this procedure so that you are familiar with it, and can assist owners with any questions.

 

FUTURE MAINTENANCE

 

In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Coding System Conditioner to the coding system of affected vehicles whenever the engine coolant is replaced. As a reminder, owners will be sent update pages with their notification letter that instructs them to add the pages to their Owner's Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet Except for the initial application associated with this campaign, the cost of adding the conditioner is the owner's responsibility.

 

CYLINDER HEAD GASKET WARRANTY EXTENSION

 

For owners of affected vehicles that have this Service Program performed promptly, SOA is extending coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service.

 

As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, the owner must properly maintain the vehicle's cooling system in accordance with the recommended maintenance schedule and Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner must be added each time the engine coolant is replaced. Resulting damage caused by a lack of maintenance or low coolant level will not be covered. Replacement of the Cooling System Conditioner during inspection and maintenance services is not covered under warranty.

 

DEALER PROGRAM RESPONSIBILITY

 

Dealers are to promptly service vehicles subject to this Service Program at no charge to the vehicle owner regardless of mileage, age of the vehicle, or ownership.

 

For affected vehicles sold after the date on the dealer's computer list, dealers are to contact those owners and provide them with a copy of the owner notification letter. They should also arrange to make the required correction according to the instructions in the service procedure section of this bulletin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vehicles in Dealer Inventory

 

Dealers are also to promptly perform the applicable service procedures defined in this bulletin to correct affected vehicles in their inventory (new, used, demo). Additionally, whenever a vehicle subject to this Service Program is taken into dealer new or used inventory, or is in the dealership for service, necessary steps should be taken to ensure the Service Program correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.

 

New or used vehicles listed in a recall/campaign that are in dealer stock must be:

 

^ Immediately identified.

 

^ Tagged or otherwise marked to prevent their delivery or use prior to inspection and/or repair.

 

^ Inspected and/or repaired in accordance with instructions outlined in the Product Campaign Bulletin.

 

 

Any Authorized Subaru Dealer failing to perform the applicable service procedures defined in this bulletin to correct affected vehicles in their inventory (new, used, demo) prior to the vehicle being placed in service may be in breach of the Subaru Dealer Agreement.

 

PARTS INFORMATION

 

Subaru Cooling System Conditioner

 

Note :Subaru Cooling System Conditioner is packaged in cases that contain 12 bottles. Each affected vehicle requires one (1) bottle. Each case contains enough material to treat 12 vehicles.

 

Prior to the release of this Service Program, each dealer will automatically be shipped a quantity of Subaru Cooling System Conditioner equivalent to 40% of their vehicle sales, or up to a maximum of 20 cases.

 

Additional quantities of the Cooling System Conditioner will be available through normal parts channels after 2/15/04. In order to maintain an adequate part supply, SOA requests that Dealers only order quantities necessary to satisfy anticipated demand.

 

REPAIR PROCEDURES

 

The repair procedure involves adding Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the cooling system. Follow the recommended procedure that applies to either a "Cold" or "Hot" engine.

 

Caution :The engine cooling system is under pressure and may he extremely hot. To prevent personal injury or vehicle damage he sure to take appropriate precautions while performing this procedure.

 

Service Procedure on a COLD Engine

 

NOTE :Impreza and Forester vehicle system components are shown in the images below, but Legacy and Outback models are similar. Consult your service manual for exact locations and illustrations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Install rags around the radiator filler neck to prevent coolant from contaminating the engine area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Take off the radiator cap and set aside.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Extract 125ml (4.23 oz.) of coolant from the radiator using a suitable device such as a piston syringe, meat or poultry baster, antifreeze hydrometer, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Place the syringe into the overflow reservoir and push the coolant out of the syringe.

 

5. Shake the bottle of cooling system conditioner until all contents are thoroughly mixed.

 

6. Pour the entire bottle of cooling system conditioner into the radiator.

 

NOTE :Do NOT pour the cooling system conditioner into the overflow reservoir. The conditioner Will settle at the bottom of the reservoir and not mix in the cooling system.

 

7. Reinstall the original radiator cap.

 

8. Remove rags from around the radiator filler neck.

 

9. Start the vehicle and let it run until the engine is warm. This ensures the conditioner circulates and there are no air pockets in the cooling system.

 

 

Service Procedure on a HOT Engine

 

1. Turn the ignition key to the "ON" position (engine off).

 

2. Turn the air conditioning "ON" to cycle the cooling fans. Leave the air conditioning "ON" for approximately two (2) minutes. This will lower the pressure in the cooling system.

 

NOTE :The pressure relief on a "HOT" engine is approximate. Caution should always be taken when removing the radiator cap on a "HOT" engine. Additional A/C "ON" time may be required to relieve cooling system pressure properly.

 

3. Turn off the air conditioning.

 

4. Return the ignition key to the LOCK ("OFF") position.

 

5. Follow procedure for COLD engine listed above.

 

 

RECALL CAMPAIGN IDENTIFICATION LABEL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Type or print the necessary information on a Recall Campaign identification label. The completed label should be attached to the vehicle's upper radiator support.

 

CLAIM REIMBURSEMENT AND ENTRY PROCEDURES

 

Credit for performing this Service Campaign will be based on the submission of properly completed repair order information. Dealers may enter the applicable claim information through their Dealer Communications System.

 

Listed below is claim entry information:

 

Add Engine Cooling System Conditioner - Use the following information for claim submission:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Enter labor operation 122-801 for 0.2 labor hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Enter the applicable part number. Parts will be reimbursed at dealer cost plus applicable handling allowance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

© 2009 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved.

Terms of Use

[motorking]

there is also a letter that goes with, cant post it here. Contact me at Jay.Buckley@Honeywell.com if you want a copy.

[dcbpe]

there is also a letter that goes with, cant post it here. Contact me at Jay.Buckley@Honeywell.com if you want a copy.

 

Jay....thanks for taking the time to post the info; unfortunately the car is 10 years old with 135000k...way past the extended warranty on the heads. I already have the letter as well.

 

It is good to know that the Prestone is ok to put in the car too.

 

 

I've had a hellish week and was unable to do a damn thing to the car. Before I do anything else I'm gonna inspect the spark plugs per ronbp.

 

I don't think this is a head gasket for various reasons, but maybe it's just wishful thinking. For starters, I just replaced the head gaskets on my Nissan this Monday...I wishfully think it's statistically impossible to blow the head gaskets on 2 cars within one week .

 

Beyond that, having neither smoke nor coolant odor coming out the tail pipe is encouraging. I'm going to let the car idle today and check the coolant level/inspect the plugs after it cools down before I do anything else. However, if the plugs look ok I'm gonna get a Subaru thermo, coolant, and additive before giving up on the heads.

 

I'm desperately hoping the additive will do the trick; I cannot afford the head gasket job and have no time to do it myself. With my Nissan functioning 100% now, a head gasket problem on my Outback would mean getting rid of it.

 

I'm not emotionally willing to face that possibility yet. I'm a little bit attached to my Outback.

[dcbpe]

Well, desperately hoping and relying on statistics are definitively debunked as realistic ways of diagnosing car problems.

 

 

Spark plug #4 came out wet, though once dry it looks just like the other 3. However, the bubbles coming out of the radiator are exhaust, and I'm pretty sure that's un-good.

 

So, I think that clinches the head gasket, as if all you guys didn't already know that.

 

Now, my question is...how bad is the leak? Can one of those over the counter "steel seal" products you run through the cooling system work for minor head gasket problems? Anyone have experience with them? I happen to have a bottle that I had purchased for the Nissan a few weeks back but never used because my mother-in-law offered to pay for the repair (it's officially her car, but she recently stopped driving it due to Parkinsons).

 

I do have the Subaru thermo/coolant/additive ready to go, but I'm not gonna waste them if the car is done. My last ditch plan is to see how the steel seal works, and if I still get bubbles/exhaust coming out the radiator then I will weigh junking the car or doing the gaskets myself.

 

Opinions?

[Fairtax4me]

Fix it in a can repairs rarely work. And often compound problems after wards by clogging cooling system components. I'd save the time and money and just do it right.

[dcbpe]

Fix it in a can repairs rarely work. And often compound problems after wards by clogging cooling system components. I'd save the time and money and just do it right.

 

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Good thing I still have the receipt for the stuff.

 

Now to decide whether to junk the car or do the gaskets. Tough decision.

[Fairtax4me]

Does the car need any other work besides the gaskets? i.e. Brakes, exhuast, suspension, tires? How well does the transmission shift? Is the car rusty at all? Have the timing components been replaced recently? Is there anything that you might have to spend another large chunk of change on within the next year or so if you do change the gaskets?

 

You could also consider selling it rather than sending it to the scrap yard.

[dcbpe]

Does the car need any other work besides the gaskets? i.e. Brakes, exhuast, suspension, tires? How well does the transmission shift? Is the car rusty at all? Have the timing components been replaced recently? Is there anything that you might have to spend another large chunk of change on within the next year or so if you do change the gaskets?

 

You could also consider selling it rather than sending it to the scrap yard.

 

I'm leaning toward doing the heads myself at this point. The only other major item of work necessary is replacing the exhaust system. The cats are shot.

 

I will be trying, during the week, to educate myself on the procedures for doing the head gaskets, and once I'm fully informed on the difficulty level deciding from there whether or not to proceed. The car requires inspection in April and won't pass with the current cats, so I'll probably take the down-time to do the exhaust system too.

 

The only thing I do know is that I don't have the cash to pay someone. Even the parts are stretching my cash reserves. Unfortunately my time and the garage space necessary to tear apart my engine are also limited.

 

But I love my Outback. I'd be devastated to part with it.

[dcbpe]

Does the car need any other work besides the gaskets? i.e. Brakes, exhuast, suspension, tires? How well does the transmission shift? Is the car rusty at all? Have the timing components been replaced recently? Is there anything that you might have to spend another large chunk of change on within the next year or so if you do change the gaskets?

 

You could also consider selling it rather than sending it to the scrap yard.

 

 

Selling it is a novel idea...from another thread you know right now I'm considering storing the car for the winter and worrying about this in the spring...but selling it could help pay some bills.

 

Who would buy a good condition ('cept for the HG) Outback, and for how much?

 

The trans is new, the timing components are new, the brakes are new, the body has no rust or dents (couple of rock chips though), the interior is damn near perfect. It's been well taken care of.

[anne311]

Hello! I am having some over heating issues with my 2002 Subaru Outback. I got the car from a dealership at the beginning of July. I first started noticing it slightly over heat while going up into the mountains. I had the AC on at the time and figured it may help if I flipped it off and it did for a bit, farther up the mountain the needle started to rise again and I had no where to pull off the road. I was nearing the top so I figured I would keep going. Once at the top the needle dropped back to the mid line. I checked the coolant level which was full, no leaking that I could see any where and the fans were working. The car drives fine around town with AC on and I drove from Salt Lake City to Boise the other day with AC on and cruise control with no issues. The next day I was pulling a trailer that weighed approximately 500lbs up a few hills and the needle started rising again. The needle has never gotten into the red but it alarms me that its going above the 3/4 line but I also haven't let it go any higher. I will either pull over and give it a break for a minute or eventually it will work its way back down. I took it in to a mechanic and had the thermostat replaced, he said it didn't look like there was a leak from any of the radiator hoses or the head gaskets and confirmed that the fans worked. Today I drove back from Boise to Salt Lake pulling an empty 350lb trailer and halfway into the trip the needle started rising again. So I flipped the AC off and it slowly dropped back to the mid line, another 100 miles later it started rising again. I pulled over checked the coolant level again which was full, no leaks that I saw and fans were working. I continued on without the AC and without the cruise control and made it home. It seems it only starts to over heat when going uphill. Any ideas on what could be causing this issue would be greatly appreciated! PLEASE HELP