coldfusion21 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I will be pulling the motor in my 90 legacy this week, hopefully will be straight forward. I was hoping someone who has done this before can give me a list of the gaskets and oil seals i should be replacing. Tomorrow I'm gonna pick up the top end seal kit which hopefully has most everything, for 150 bucks it better! But I figure i will still have to replace the timing belt, front and rear main seals and an oil pan gasket in addition to everything in the top end kit. Any more suggestions while I'm in there? Trying to keep this low cost, so no bearings or rings. Also I read something about replacing an oil separator plate with an aluminum one, does this apply to my engine? Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 don't replace the rear main seal, unless there is over whelming evidence , after you have pulled the engine, that it is leaking. usually the oil leak on the rear of the engine is the oil seperator plate, not the rear main seal. if you replace the rear main seal, there is a very high likleyhood that it WILL leak in the very near future. lots of subaru engines were sold with plastic seperator plates on the rear of the engine, behind the flywheel / flexplate. replace the leaking plate , even if it is metal, with a new one AND NEW SCREWS use RTV to seal. pull the oil pump and replace the o-ring behind it and double check the screws on the back plate. sometimes they loosen up and cause leaks. no new parts required (except the o-ring), just make sure they are tight (maybe with locktite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Well, the engine has 244k on it, and doesn't leak real bad but it seems like a lot of work to fix in the future. I've done main seals before without problems. Is this a common suggestion? Edit: thanks for the info on the separator plate. If mine is indeed plastic, can the dealer supply a metal one for cheap? How about the screws? Or should i find one online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Well, the engine has 244k on it, and doesn't leak real bad but it seems like a lot of work to fix in the future. I've done main seals before without problems. Is this a common suggestion? Edit: thanks for the info on the separator plate. If mine is indeed plastic, can the dealer supply a metal one for cheap? How about the screws? Or should i find one online? the dealer should have both plate and screws, (one screw is different - it comes with locktite or sealant on it) but it will becheaper online. if you have not done subaru rear seals please heed this advice. there is more than one poster out there that had to pull the engine twice because they replaced the rear seal. typically, they do not leak. i have heard that they are installed when the 2 engine block halves are bolted together, not pushed in from the rear after they are bolted together. this does not mean it can not be done , but if it is not leaking, why chance it. others who have done it successfully will advise you on how to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Why are you doing all this? If the head gaskets are not leaking, almost everything else can be done with the engine in the car. If you need to reseal the oil pan and do the timing belt and cam seals then yes pull the engine. No need for a $150 top end gasket kit unless you are doing the heads and HG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 My apologies, I thought i had mentioned that in the OP. I have a leaky head gasket and that is the primary goal. Engine seeps oil so hopefully i can fix that as well. Timing belt has no record, so that is a must as well. I will be removing my AC as well. Its a R12 system and I would only try and use it a couple times a year. It didn't work in the 106 degree heat last summer and that's when i wanted it. It hardly works when its 70 out. So that will clean up the engine a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 for the money you are going to spend on this engine, you could probably get a used engine. of course you could be buying someone else's headache, but there are millions? of these engines around. at 244k, how long do you expect this engine to last, another 100k? if it were mine, i'd probably drive it a while longer until it quits or threatens to, and then swap the engine. but if you do rebuild it, let us know when you reach 500k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 are you absolutely sure it's headgaskets leaking? almost every leak in the engine will end up "by" the headgaskets just based on the engine layout. valve covers can leak and gradually build up towards the center/back of the engine. make sure it is head gasket. yes he is correct, do not replace that rear main seal unless necessary. if it's dry (ignoring residue which will be there from the separator plate), then leave it. they often leak right after installation - even by good mechanics who have done seals all the time. if it's an auto make sure you know how to seat the torque converter. you won't be able to tell visually if it's seated and risk ruining your trans if you're not sure. those headgaskets can even be done in the car. engine doesn't have to be pulled. get the thermostat from Subaru - aftermarkets are insanely cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I second that one, a good used engine will be much less than doing the machine work and buying the gaskets. Most yards give you a 30 day return. www.car-part.com is a good yard search engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Well, I have an oily film in my coolant, my car overheats and when it does so i have a large air pocket in my cooling system. See this thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104607 I'm almost certain its the head gaskets. No external coolant leaks to speak of. The oil seeping is a different and probably completely separate issue. I just wanna make sure I seal up as much stuff as i can while i have the thing hanging in front of me. It is an auto, so if the torque converter moves I have no way of re-seating it? I've messed with torque converters before, always have been a pain, but never trashed one or a tranny yet. How serious should i be about using some sort of retainer to hold the converter in place? Already have a good OEM thermostat. Heads are gonna be 20 or so each to machine flat and clean, all the gaskets should be under 200. So where can i find a re-sealed motor with fresh head gaskets for under 300? Point is, I'm sure I can't. Maybe i get lucky and find a yard with one for 200, but i still would want to go through everything and i know this motor runs, pretty well for its age, and has no other serious issues. Thanks for all the pointers guys, this is my first Subaru motor pull so I wanna make sure I'm ready so I can keep to my schedule. Trying to keep this to a long weekend (this Thursday through Sunday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hey fusion: I'm with you on this one. It's a known quantitity, your motor. You are on the right track. Don't freak about the torque conv. Just look closely at its depth in the bell housing/back of motor and mark its position with a sharpie. Line it back up for the install and you should be stoked. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Alright guys got a new front main seal, timing belt, water pump, alt/PS belt and the top end kit. Gasket set is made by stevens, never heard of them. it was ~150 at my local import auto parts place. Total for everything (with a can of PB blaster and some shop towels) was 230. Not to bad. Heading to the dealer tomorrow to get separator plate and screws. Hopefully tomorrow mid day i have the engine out. Any last words of advice? Thanks for all your guys help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et10sec Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Just curious, but what is in a "top end kit?" Does it include the head gaskets? Are they aftermarket? Not sure I'd use anything but Subaru OEM for the HGs. Anyway, good luck with the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well, be wary and detail check your block, cuz you don't wanna rebuild your top end with a bad bottom end to go with it. (Don't ask me how I know ) And, yes, its easier to do all the head stuff out of the car, but getting the engine out of the car is a royal PITA. It is possible to do the heads inside the car. Clean, clean, clean, clean, clean, clean. And don't forget to coat your cylinder walls with some sort of flammable lubricant before slapping it all back together so you don't accidentally score your cylinders. Also, make sure your tranny is good before starting all this, and I mean check it, check it and triple check it (don't ask me how I know this either ) Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Just curious, but what is in a "top end kit?" Does it include the head gaskets? Are they aftermarket? Not sure I'd use anything but Subaru OEM for the HGs. Anyway, good luck with the project. Ya, it has everything from the valve covers to the head gaskets. Valve stem seals intake gasket all that stuff. I already have the kit, and i can't return it so it looks like i'm using the aftermarket gaskets. Probably gonna copper spray them and cross my fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Alright guys, motor is out, heads are at the shop being cleaned and skimmed. In my top end kit i have two blue o rings that I cant identify. Any thoughts? been quite the learning experience, especially the bellhousing bolts. used a ratcheting wrench with a 3/8ths drive converter and a standard 12mm socket. And i have all the AC hoses, compressor and condenser for the car torn out too, should save a few pounds and open up the engine bay a bit. So i notice that the rear seal on one side of the head has a back plate or cover and the other side doesn't, is this normal? Edited November 2, 2009 by coldfusion21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 In my top end kit i have two blue o rings that I cant identify. . how big are they?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 My apologies. I would guess (not at the house) 1/4" od? pretty small. quantity of two, so i would ASSume one for each head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My apologies. I would guess (not at the house) 1/4" od? pretty small. quantity of two, so i would ASSume one for each head? absolutely no idea, my kit didn't have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 So I just got a quote of almost 300 dollars for two new mounts. That's insane. I can buy ten of almost any other mount for that price. If anyone has some spare late model legacy motor mount brackets that would be awesome. If only. Heads are done, off to pick them up. Pictures later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I have many good sets, $40 shipped. Lmdew@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Well thanks to legacy77 I have some part numbers for the brackets so i will be investigating that today. Thank you for the offer. I was hoping someone could ID this O ring too. There are two in my top end gasket set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 bump Getting it back together slowly, still wondering about that o-ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfusion21 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Well, since no one had an answer i found out myself. Its the oil dipstick tube. Has two o-rings. Engine goes back in tomorrow. Hope she starts up first crank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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