ericem Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hey guys I am looking at the thermostat and wondering about the little floating valve as it seems for air. My car just doesn't seem to always have the fans cycling and the temps stay in teh 203 F range according to the ECU. Tried temp sensors etc. Thinking i will replace the thermostat with another one I have and remove that little floating valve and drill 2 more holes and put the thermostat so the holes are facing up (turbo car thermostat goes in from front). See if this fixes the problem. I will probably do a motor rebuild or swap later for now hopefully this is a good enough fix. What do you think?? Any idea if maybe a turbo car has a different thermostat? yet I doubt as SOMETIMES car the works 100% and temps come down to 190F range while pressurized with no issues. Its a 94 SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Have you tried the OEM thermostat? This is the only one you should be using. Thermostat modifications are at best science experiments done under controlled conditions with test equipment the average wrench turner does not have. Why are you removing the jiggle valve? Are you drilling holes in the tstat to allow for air bypass? If so, you should investigate why the air is present. Fans not turning on reliably? Do they come on when the a/c is turned on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Dont just go drilling out themrostats, thats bad. use an OE T-stat with the jiggle valve. This car is old enough to have a clogged radiator or a decrepid radtiator (falling apart behind the AC condensor). look there. I bet you never even thought to replace the Radiator cap either. Always start with the simple stuff before you just throwing money at a car. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 have replaced the thermostat rad cap rad hoses no dice and cts. No signs of headgasket never overheats so i figure might as well try swapping the thermostat but without the jigle valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 That valve is there for a reason. Make sure the temp is what it is. How are you getting this temp reading as this is an OBDI car. I would look at the radiator next. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 well heres the thing i replaced it just to see if it would do anything with no luck. I have a cable i bought they are on revtronix google it has a app. Temp inter at 200s and the fan is blowing cold air. Which tells me the thermostat is closed. Have tried bleeding the system so many times its insane. Sometimes i have gotten out and the fans would turn on run for 10seconds shut off yet 99% of the time no dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well see that tells me that something is reading wrong. T-stats are dead on devices and mechanical. They have a temp they start to open at and a temp that they are fully open at which is about a ten degree span. I think you are barking up the wrong tree or have an air pocket in the cooling system. Get the specs out for the engine temp sensor and check its specs. Get yourself a cheap thermometer and measure the temp of the coolant in the radiator. You can blame the the Tstat all you want but they generally work, and that is not your problem. Also for a point of refernece at what conditions are you reading this temp and what is the outdoor temp. Why are you worring about this anyway. I know blu can read 180-210 and gave the engine temp needle barely move off the 1/2 mark. Somrtimes there is such a thing as too much info. How old is the waterpump? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 203° sounds like normal operating temp to me. I don't see the problem if the car doesn't overheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 It just annoys the crap out of me because everytime I get out of the car the fans are running steady. It needs to go below 189F in order to cycle off the fans and the thermostat opens at around 170F fully. I can't see why running for such a long time and the fans still not cycling. I am not saying the thermostats suck, but if me removing the valve makes the fans cycle I am happy. I can't stand getting out of my car or parking and talking to someone with the engine on momentarily with the fans on high speed LOL!! I will blow the ************ing car up with dynomite if I do not fix this!! Going to replace hose and try this thermostat without the jiggle valve, but won't drill extra holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It just annoys the crap out of me because everytime I get out of the car the fans are running steady. It needs to go below 189F in order to cycle off the fans and the thermostat opens at around 170F fully. I can't see why running for such a long time and the fans still not cycling. I am not saying the thermostats suck, but if me removing the valve makes the fans cycle I am happy. I can't stand getting out of my car or parking and talking to someone with the engine on momentarily with the fans on high speed LOL!! I will blow the ************ing car up with dynomite if I do not fix this!! Going to replace hose and try this thermostat without the jiggle valve, but won't drill extra holes. there are many cars that will have the fans run after it shuts off. If this is all it takes to set you off i suggest you examine your life So why wont you check to see if the radiator is in good condition? Personally i think there is nothig wrong with this car. The enngine temp sensor reads at the engine, not at the radiators. If you want try running the car without the t-stat as a test, but i really dont see anything wrong here myslef. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Oh buy I think there is serious confusion here. The rad is brand new, thermostat brand new, Coolant temperature sensor the red one with 2 pins brand new alots of hoses have been replaced, and it has a brand new radiator cap. All parts I use are OEM. Lets step back If I drive the car around and stop. I have my computer plugged in keep in mind. I can monitor the temperature. It stays RIGHT at 203+ and goes as high at 217F with the fans on. I can leave it idling for as much as 1 hour and the termperature is still at 200+F. The fans turn off at 189F. So if the car is running for a VERY long period, IGNITION ON, ENGINE RUNNING, at idle or driving and it can not bring the temperature down it makes no sense to me. The thermostat opens fully at 178F, YET it can not bring it down to anywhere below 200F with the fans running and cold air blowing tells me coolant is not circulating the the upper rad hose is very hot and the bottom hose is very cold. So this is NOT normal, it is VERY ANNOYING listening to your fans running, and it needs to be fixed. There are times where the fans cycle just great and the UPPER and LOWER rad hose is warm which is how it SHOULD be ALL the time. Edited October 28, 2009 by ericem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Agreed, this sounds frustrating. Blowing the car to bits wouldn't make you feel as good as solving this though. For a data point, on my car one fan cycles on for 15-30 seconds and then off with engine warm and idling, outside temp at 70 degrees. Sounds like your car sometimes does this. Is there only one temperature sender (sensor)? I agree with running without the thermostat for a while, to see if there is a flow problem related to the thermostat, however unlikely. You should also check system pressure, is the upper hose soft? The system will run abnormally hot if the pressure is bleeding off somewhere. How are you bleeding the air out? Like others have said, the water pump might not be what she used to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yes there are two sensors one for guage one for ECU. Tried the thermostat without a jiggle valve. Works kind of on and off. I think it needs more coolant. I will wait till it cools then remove the rad cap. Just wondering though. Why doesn't the overflow tank level change at all comparing hot and cold?! I always notice this yet never figured out why only this car is like this. Fans were working perfectly then I shut it off when for a drive were still working perfectly then it went to a point where temps would stay around 190F driving and at idle with fans on couldn't bring temps down, then other times temps went down no problems at idle. I can hear some swooshing in the heatercore soo still some air thats for sure. So better but not perfect. I wonder if the headgasket is possibly leaking when the engine is dead dead cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 What heat range plugs are you running? Are all the emissions controls functioning? What is the output of the altenator? Put a meat themrometer in the radiator coolant after the T-stat has opened and let us know the temp of the coolant. Are the fans running at the proper speed? What happens when you tun the AC on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 AC isn't working now my dad needs to hook up his gauges. Never though off the meat temp guage good idea. No CEL's everything runs fine, has new ngk coppers gapped to .28 (boosted the engine much higher now). Alternator sucks, can't keepup with fans and lights on, but the ecu bumps the idle till it hits high 12 volt range. Will replace it ASAP with a turbo alternator as I heard they are different amps and have a different temperature cut out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 You may have just answered the question. A weak altenator will throw off everything. you may not be actually be seeing the real temp, but a higher temp due to a lower voltage output (meaning not a thing wrong with the cooling system). What is the alt output at idle with everything off, fans on, and at 1800 RPM with everything on? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 idle fans off lights off 13.5v. Fans on or lights low 12's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I hadn't realized before that the thermostat opening temp was only 170° for this car. My castoff as normal was based on experience with cars that use 190 - 195° ranger thermostats. Knowing this now I don't think I can say that being consistently 30-40° above thermostat opening temp is normal. That said, I think your next step should be to accurately record the temperature of the coolant going into and leaving the engine. An infrared temp gun can be useful for that, but the most accurate way is to use an analog thermometer exposed directly to the coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well car cooled down and sucked some of the overflow and the coolant tank was still somewhat low. Filled it up, reset the ecu for kicks, and let it idle till the fans turned on. The fans ran for 7 seconds, then shut off. Then I shut off the motor. I will leave it for another 30 mins then I will go for a drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 if this is all because the car was low on coolant your getting a lump of coal for the holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 idle fans off lights off 13.5v. Fans on or lights low 12's. And at 1800 rpm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 if this is all because the car was low on coolant your getting a lump of coal for the holidays. lol no it was full before just after replacing the thermostat took more coolant then what i drained and it sucked some overflow. Works good after i bleed it but if i let it cool then drive for a while temps cruising now are at 190f but at idle doesnt always cool the engine just blows cold air. Possibly sucking air via overflow lines when cooling ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 And at 1800 rpm? at 1800rpm with everything on its 13.5v. at idle with everything off it can do around 13v. Today fans didn't cycle at all temps stay in the 200's. Today it was from a freezing cold start. Is it possible the headgasket leaks EVER so slightly when cold?? Also the rad cap sort of has suction when you open it what does that tell me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 at 1800rpm with everything on its 13.5v. at idle with everything off it can do around 13v. Today fans didn't cycle at all temps stay in the 200's. Today it was from a freezing cold start. Is it possible the headgasket leaks EVER so slightly when cold?? Also the rad cap sort of has suction when you open it what does that tell me? Replace the radiator cap. The cap is not functioing properly. As the car cools down, it makes a vacume inside the cooling system. This vacume is used to draw in coolant from the overflow tank. Your cap is not allowing this to happen. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 How much vacuum? A slight vacuum is normal (equal to the weight of the coolant in the overflow tank hose), anything more then perhaps the overflow tank hose line is partially clogged and functioning like a pressure valve. Did you clean out the gunk at the bottom of the overflow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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