axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 We just had a used transmission put into our 95 Legacy Wagon, AWD, Automatic. It doesn't seem quite right. Here's what's going on. First, there's a semi-quiet clicking noise when any gear is engaged - if I put it in neutral while driving and rev the engine, it goes away. The noise seems to be related to engine speed, not road speed, but it's hard to tell. Also, if I do sharp turns in the parking lot I'm getting torque bind in the front - both directions. Did we get a lemon tranny? Thanks in advance. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Is it possible the final drive ratio of the transmission you installed does not match the rear diff? That would cause bad binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 no one can help you until you determine with absolute certainty your front and rear diff ratios match. if they do match then read up on "torque bind" which will come up here with a search. everything you need to fix your car is already here. noise could be anything - bad front diff, exhaust heat shields. i'd concern myself with the torque bind first. has the fluid been changed since you installed it? hope it was installed correctly, it's easy to hose the internal oil pump if the torque converter isn't seated properly. hope that's not your grinding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 The car seems to cruise just fine. Would it feel strange if the front and rear diffs didn't match? We've only put on 100 miles or so since the swap, so I wouldn't expect the fluid to be a problem. The mechanic who did it has worked on our cars for years - always has done good work for us - some wheel bearings, a few timing belts, a clutch in my wagon (95 Legacy with 318,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Before I left work I put a fuse into the AWD recepticle under the hood. After a few minutes of driving, the front torque-bind seemed to go away. Still clicks under load. Does this mean that the drive ratios don't match? Would all 95 Legacy automatics have had the same ratios? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Before I left work I put a fuse into the AWD recepticle under the hood. After a few minutes of driving, the front torque-bind seemed to go away. Still clicks under load. Does this mean that the drive ratios don't match? Would all 95 Legacy automatics have had the same ratios? Adam there is a 6/95 manufacture date cutoff date for transmissions. trans auto trans after are 4.11, auto trans up thru 6/95 are reported to be 3.9. there is a test for checking if the front and rear diffs match: jack up both wheels on one side of the car and put it on jack stands. unplug the large trans elect. connector at the rear of the engine on top where it meets the trans. start the car and move the trans shift selector to neutral. (parking brake off) mark the 6 oclock position of the front and rear tires that are in the air. turn one of the tires by hand 4 or 5 rotations. the marks should end up in the same position. when you undo all of this don't forget to plug in the electrical connection. if the car was only binding in turns, it is probably not mis-match diffs. it is probably just torquebind. it there a flashing light on the dash at start up, "power" or "AT oil Temp" maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Will do. Should I take the AWD fuse back out before I do this? If so, should I drive it for a few minutes first? Also, the sticker on the transmission says "TZ102ZAAA-C7". The ID plate in the fender that has the VIN lists the transmission type as "TZ102ZAAA". The VIN is 4s3bk6557s7332974. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Will do. Should I take the AWD fuse back out before I do this? If so, should I drive it for a few minutes first? Also, the sticker on the transmission says "TZ102ZAAA-C7". The ID plate in the fender that has the VIN lists the transmission type as "TZ102ZAAA". The VIN is 4s3bk6557s7332974. Adam i don't think it will matter with the connector undone, but go ahead and pull the fuse. driving it before hand does not matter. by disconnecting the wiring to the trans it "locks" the trans in 4WD and with the car in neutral, when you turn one wheel by hand, the other should be "locked" to it and turn the exact same number of turns. the trans numbers are a match, but you have left out an "A" on the end. the actual number is TZ102ZAAAA. unless some one swapped out the trans and rear diff with a 3.9 before you got the car. it is a post 6/95 manf date trans. it has the 4.11 final drive. you can confirm the manf date on the b column between the front and rear doors, driver side, there should be a sticker. i don't think you have to do the diff check since the trans numbers match. it sounds like just regular old torque bind. is there a flashing light on the dash at start up?? a flashing AToil temp light may indicate a bad duty c solenoid in the transfer clutch for the rear wheels. if no light your first fix is a fluid swap, several actually. you can do it your self, just like an oil change, or pay to have it flushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Date of manufacture for the car: 11/94. Looks like they put in the wrong tranny. You're right about the missing "A". The tranny sticker says "TZ102ZAAAA-C7" and the plate on the car doesn't have the "-C7". Does the chart show that later 1995 models get the C7 and earlier ones should get the one without? I'm going to try the jack up test to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Date of manufacture for the car: 11/94. Looks like they put in the wrong tranny. You're right about the missing "A". The tranny sticker says "TZ102ZAAAA-C7" and the plate on the car doesn't have the "-C7". Does the chart show that later 1995 models get the C7 and earlier ones should get the one without? I'm going to try the jack up test to confirm. i have no idea what the C7 refers to, but in mixing and matching trans here for several years, i have never seen the 2 last letters make a difference, if the 10 digits match, the trans match. maybe with the 95s it refers to the month?? i even went and cjecked my trans list and the ...AAAA is a 95, ...ABAA is 96, i didn't have a number for 94 but i'll look at http://www.car-part.com . do the diff check. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, be very careful while doing this. you don't want the car to drop while in gear with the engine running and run over anyone. if it is just regular torque bind, you can use the rear extention housing off of you old trans and swap it in, assuming it was ok. call the mechanic who did the swap in the morning and ask him to hold it in case you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I did the test and after fifty rotations, my arms are tired and the marks still match up. I'm guessing the ratios are good, so I suppose that means torque bind. This is a stupid question - the front diff is part of the transmission on the AT isn't it? They did put in one CV joint when they installed the tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I did the test and after fifty rotations, my arms are tired and the marks still match up. I'm guessing the ratios are good, so I suppose that means torque bind. This is a stupid question - the front diff is part of the transmission on the AT isn't it? They did put in one CV joint when they installed the tranny. there is a chance that several drain and fills of the ATF will help. call you mechanic and see if he has your old trans. that rear housing will swap in , no problem. the trans doesn't even have to come out of the car. i ASSUME you do not have a flashing AT Temp light at start up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The clicking could be loose bolts on the torque converter or a crack in the flex plate. Either way I'd take it back to your mechanic and get him to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 if it's torque bind - change the fluid a couple of times. torque bind is covered in depth here. since yours goes away with the FWD fuse that tells us that the Duty C solenoid is working which means this will likely be fixed easily. there's a bottle of limited slip fluid that will fix this issue if the fluid change doesn't. search for the right fluid - it's a GM product i believe. that works almost every time. the other option is replacing the rear clutch packs. just use the ones off your old transmission. i would ask the mechanic to keep that entire rear trans clutch section with Duty C solenoid if he hasn't thrown it away yet. even if you fix this those are good parts to have if your 4WD worked fine before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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