bgambino Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I picked up a cherry of a 93 loyale...40k...great shape...problem? no spark If you guys are so inclined to help...please go to this link and read about it....no solution found on the older forum yet. I'm out of ideas... thanks http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 that thing looks like it should drive like new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I dont see anything about an ignitor getting replaced (I think this has one). First start with basics. For spark you need voltage, a signal to indicate when to fir the coil, and amplifier for said signal (the ignitor) and of course the coil and the the rest of the ignition system. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 I dont see anything about an ignitor getting replaced (I think this has one). First start with basics. For spark you need voltage, a signal to indicate when to fir the coil, and amplifier for said signal (the ignitor) and of course the coil and the the rest of the ignition system. nipper ************** thanks Nip....I need someone in the know who has an idea where these possibly critical components are tho... I was surprised that running 12V from the batt directly to the + side of coil did not provide a spark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) I was surprised that running 12V from the batt directly to the + side of coil did not provide a spark That's because, in simple terms, the voltage at the primary of the coil has to be ''pulsed'', not constant. Naturally, for the spark to occur at the correct part of the engine cycle for each cylinder, those pulses have to be correctly timed. The used distributor isn't necessarily good. EDIT: I suggest that you go to the AutoZone website, and register. Enter the data for your car (year, make, etc.), and then go to the repair guides. Under ''Engine Electrical'', select ''Electronic Distributor Ignition System''. Go through that ''tree'' -- there's diagnostic info. Edited November 4, 2009 by OB99W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm nipper ******************* Thanks nipper Pretty good stuff on that site Makes me think of a question regarding my no spark... The loyale has a distributor and coil.....I guess the ECM sends the pulse message each time a spark is required....so here's the thing,,,,how does the ECM know when each cylinder is in position for a spark to be delivered??? In the new generation we have the cam and crank sensors. But I dont remember anythig like that in all of my older style sub's like this one Anyone know the answer to this? I would think this answer might point me in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 The answer is down inside the bottom of the disty. The crank angle sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 The answer is down inside the bottom of the disty. The crank angle sensor. **************** thanks cougar...I'll delve into that are next. The guy had bought a used distributor but I noticed that the shaft cracked right at the o-ring groove. I'm gueesing that maybe it was stuck in the junk car and someone whacked it with a hammer to loosen it So I don't think that one will serve any purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ******************* Thanks nipper Pretty good stuff on that site Makes me think of a question regarding my no spark... The loyale has a distributor and coil.....I guess the ECM sends the pulse message each time a spark is required....so here's the thing,,,,how does the ECM know when each cylinder is in position for a spark to be delivered??? In the new generation we have the cam and crank sensors. But I dont remember anythig like that in all of my older style sub's like this one Anyone know the answer to this? I would think this answer might point me in the right direction The sensor is in the disty, in the bottom of it. It is in the same place that a set of points would be located. Any slop in the bearings in the disty would have the same effect as bad bushings on a set of points. You may have either a bad disty, a bad sensor, or a bad ignitor. The first two can be directly tested, the last one is usually just done by a process of elimination. However in your car, since there is no spark, it should be easy enough to check. A bad ignitor is usually one of those things that give people fits because it is a random failure initally. nipper nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 The sensor is in the disty, in the bottom of it. It is in the same place that a set of points would be located. Any slop in the bearings in the disty would have the same effect as bad bushings on a set of points. You may have either a bad disty, a bad sensor, or a bad ignitor. The first two can be directly tested, the last one is usually just done by a process of elimination. However in your car, since there is no spark, it should be easy enough to check. A bad ignitor is usually one of those things that give people fits because it is a random failure initally. nipper nipper ************ Nip when you mention a bad sensor and igniter...I don;t think this vintage soob has either...unless you mean they are all in the disty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Your model does have both items like we have stated. The ignitor may be mounted on the disty shaft or very near it. It is really a transistor mounted on a bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Your model does have both items like we have stated. The ignitor may be mounted on the disty shaft or very near it. It is really a transistor mounted on a bracket. *********** There is something mounted on the coil bracket--not sure what it is called--but the coil and thingy work fine as I put it in the 92 and she fired up ** He is a thought from Johmn on the old board...seems to make sense...what do you guys think? We know the coil and "power amplifier" mounted on the coil bracket is good because all of it worked in your other car. IGN switch is good becaused you tested it. Fuses/fusible links also good. 12 volts directly to the coil didn't work. The voltage to the has to be broken for the coil to generate a spark. I think this occurs on the negative side of the coil (ground side is interrupted). The distributor has a photo optic whatever internal called the CAS.. Light shines through 360 slots in a plate. Somehow the ECU uses this. That's about all I know about the distributor. I believe you mentioned you have an extra distributor. Unplug the distributor in your other car and plug in the extra. Place key in the run position and turn the distributor by hand. If the coil produces a spark you know that distributor is good. Do the same test in the car that doesn't run. If a spark is generator either the distributor in the car is bad or there is a break somewhere in the wiring. The ECU has been swapped so it is probably good. You could always test it in the running car. The only problem is I JUST sold my 92 2 days ago....I have some older distys...maybe I could try it with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 or to put it plainly....get a good disty...plug it into the trouble cars system....place the coild wire wire near a metal object...turn key on and simply rotate the distributor shaft and see if a spark occurs out of the coil wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 or to put it plainly....get a good disty...plug it into the trouble cars system....place the coild wire wire near a metal object...turn key on and simply rotate the distributor shaft and see if a spark occurs out of the coil wire +1 And as i said before, ignitors/ignition amplifiers/mystery box will drive you nuts on these cars trying to diagnose it. Thats why you rule everything else out first, OR just toss in a complete working one from another car. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 ok...spent a little time on it today I went to a junker I have in the yard..87 GL Took out the disty...(left it wired up)...turned key on. When I rotate the disty sharft, I ger a sparl=k out of the coil wire (I was sending the spark to a metal object So I go to the 93 problem car and do the same with the existing disty...no spark Took another disty ...wired it in and grounded it....still no spark now what? good coil swapped ecm's why isn't there a pulse to create the spark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 The problem with usuing junkyard parts. Ask yourslef why the car was there to begin with. Like lets say, they couldnt get the car started and it was to old to bother repairing... IE no spark. Check the power going to the coil as the engine cranks with an ANALOG meter. Also replace the condenser if it has one. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) The problem with usuing junkyard parts. Ask yourslef why the car was there to begin with. Like lets say, they couldnt get the car started and it was to old to bother repairing... IE no spark. Check the power going to the coil as the engine cranks with an ANALOG meter. Also replace the condenser if it has one. nipper Nip can you detail what exactly what I would do to test it? Am i to touch the positive and negative poles? what should be the reading? why analog (I only have digital) there is no condensor that i know of...there is something attached to the coilbracket...but the coil works fine (with the condensor thing attached) when tested in another car i didnt get your point about junk yard parts Edited November 8, 2009 by bgambino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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