brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm new to subaru's so go easy on me. Recently I've been having some issues with my EA82 and am looking into replacing it. I have found a good deal on some EA82T's with low miles, and had some questions about this swap. I'm sure internally they will be different, like rings, pistons and etc. But... Are the long blocks even the same? Are the blocks externally the same, and do they use all the same hardware (eg. power steering, a/c, and belt set-up)? Is the wiring a "plug and play" deal, or is it a large amount of wiring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 for the amount of work to swap a loyale... just to have an unreliable engine... switch to an EJ22 from a wrecked legacy or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 for the amount of work to swap a loyale... just to have an unreliable engine... switch to an EJ22 from a wrecked legacy or something... I was looking into that. But what does that entail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Before others chime in i will, and ill be nice. The ea82t wasnt the best motor for performance and hp. And buy designe there are headgasket problems, alot of them. If your wanting to upgrade then the ejswap is the easer and better way to go. Bigger aftermarket following for that engine. Very reliable and indestructable ej22. The hardest part about the engine swap is the wireing harness. They make adaptors that would bolt up to the trans you have. Check out the search function and do some checking. They have many many wrightups, full of many many wonderful things. Trust me, the ea82t is only going to gain you about 15 to 20hp. VS the EJ swap which will net you almost 50hp and loads of torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I just wanted a straight bolt in. a ej22 would be nice, but I don't want to have to deal with all the wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Then yoru best is to do just a straight engine swap then. If yours is FI make sure and grab a engine from a 88 or newer sedan or wagon. The 87 and back are carbed. Though you could use your current FI system you have on the motor, its a pain and more then likely complicated for you to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 if i remember correctly, the block is the same.. just the heads are what set it differently. that and of course the turbo, exhaust, and intake design but physically, it will fit no problem. If i was in your position though, i would do the EJ swap. you are pulling the engine out anyway. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 you would be much better off to fix/replace the engine you have. the turbo is unreliable and not really that much more horsepower. i mean it is an it is nice compared to the EA82's, but the EA82T is an annoying motor. if you really wanted to do it - you'd want to reseal the entire thing - fel pro permatorque headgaskets and all, replace all the hoses and turbo related fittings ,rebuild the turbo, clean out the radiator, new water pump...basically redo the entire cooling system. then....you *could* have a reliable motor if everything was done right. 20+ years has really taken it's toll on the hoses, gaskets, and parts on the EA82T. turbo's generate lots of heat, so 20 year old stuff just isn't up to that game, particularly on these EA82T's which are a weaker platform as far as turbo's go. also - it's going to take some custom work, it's more than a bolt-on job and will require wiring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thanks for all the info. It looks like I won't be getting a EA82T, because of the reliability issues you guys have said. I'm thinking my car may have cracked heads, but I won't know for sure until I tear into it later this week. It has 180k, so I was looking into swapping a lower miles motor, instead of changing the heads. I found a re-manufactured long block locally, and I am considering that. I bought the car for dirt cheap. So I'm thinking my options are: buy another loyale and run into the same problems later on, or spend the money and get the work done to have it last a while. I'm thinking the second one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 fyi: cracks between valves not necessarily = bad head -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 180k is nothing. You probably do not have cracked heads. The non-turbo engines almost never crack the heads. Replace your head gaskets and it should be fine. The EA82's typically last 300k+ if they are well maintained. I would stay away from anything that has been "remaned" unless it's from a very reliable source such as roobuilders in CO. Subaru engines aren't your typical cast-iron inline 4 and few shops are qualified to be rebuilding one IMO. Pull it, reseal it, and put it back in. Just make sure you use Fel-Pro head gaskets and OEM intake, exhaust, and thermostat housing gaskets. Torque the heads to a final torque of 65 Ft/lbs, and torque the manifold gaskets to 12 Ft/lbs. Only buy OEM thermostat's. These aren't Chevy's and you can't go down to the podunk auto parts store for parts. The aftermarket stuff (in large measure) sucks in a big way. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Oh okay. But another issue is time and money. Being a full-time college student its though to find either. If it turns out the heads aren't cracked, and it is a headgasket (or something of that nature) then I could end up paying $1200+ for the headgaskets to be replaced, and the motor to be resealed. Or to pay 950 for a "remaned" long block and money for labor to have it put it. Those two options would look to be close to eachother in price, and probably the most realistic options. Which would be the best option for longevity of the car, and to saving me money in the long run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Dude you can pick up a used engine for 500 bucks or less depending on where you are. Spend the day putting it in yourself and your golden. If your a poor college student, think like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Dude you can pick up a used engine for 500 bucks or less depending on where you are. Spend the day putting it in yourself and your golden. If your a poor college student, think like one. But like I posted earlier, I can get a cheap used motor, but It will have the same problems eventually. All it will do is defer the problems. Why not get the good work done while I have the money? (This is a real question, just looking for some input) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 there is no way it would cost you 1200 bucks to replace the Headgaskets yourself. If you do all the work, and replace only the HG and the other gaskets GD lined out (no rear reason to do a full re-seal if youre on a budget) then you arent looking at more than 250 bucks for those. In all, if your car just has a blown headgasket, you can probalbly fix it yourself for well under $500. Will it be a perfect, leak-free squeaky clean uber-shiny supermotor? No, but it will run and get you back on the road as fast and cheap as possible. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 actually, EA82 heads rarely fail (unlike EA82T heads which have a lot more heat issues due to the turbo). done right your existing heads are perfectly fine. be advised - the cracks between the valve seats are common and expected on EA82 heads, Subaru has even released a TSB or documentation about that. cracks into the exhaust ports/coolant passages are bad, but almost never happen in EA82's. you can have them pressure tested by a shop to verify. i'd reuse the heads but put the money into doing it right. have them machined and use Fel-Pro permatorque head gaskets (adding 5-10 pounds more to the final torque value over spec's). mizpah engineering out of the midwest sells rebuilt HLA's for only a few dollars each. if yours are fine though and you're engine has been well maintained you may not need them. if you're concerned about the 180,000 miles, just have a complete valve job done. with that and having them milled they are the same as brand new heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) If you can't do the work yourself, you are much better off selling the car and getting a first generation Legacy. They are much nicer cars and don't tend to exhibit the failings of the EA series engines. It's not at all uncommon for a 90 to 94 Legacy to go 300k+ with only maintenance - no real failures and it's rare for them to blow head gaskets. They can be had most any day of the week for less than $1,000. The EA82 cooling system MUST be maintained properly or you will have failures. The rubber parts in the cooling system can easily amount to $150 and should be replaced on ANY used EA series. They are the biggest source of failure in the cooling system followed closely by the radiators as they are really too small for the engine (not enough overhead in the design). Again - if you can't or won't do the work yourself, you are throwing money away by owning that car. Period. GD Edited November 2, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Good sir, i have 200k on the original motor in my car. Saying this will happen again is kinda a shot in the dark. Sure it might happen again, then it might now. What you can do is throw a cheep motor in there for now so you got transportation. Then do the work yourself, its not that hard. Especially if you dont need that engine to run your car. If you dont have a place to do it then thats one thing. If i were you i would save my money for something else like a nice legacy. I like my loyale but it isnt the greatest for somethings. Your kinda dumping alot of money into something not worth that much. I love my car but im not spenging 1200 bucks for a motor to go into a 500 dollar car. Just saying and not bashing, believe me. If youve got that much to spend then why not go legacy shopping. Might not run into so many problems. I never did catch where you are from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 i do this all the time, i've been driving XT's/XT6's since 1993 and have put 100's of thousands of miles on them over the years. GD's information is correct, another 100,000 miles out of your existing engine would not be that surprising. do the headgaskets like already mentioned. valve cover gaskets reseal the oil pump, replace the water pump, reseal the front of the motor (cam and crank seals, cam orings) and install a new timing belt kit from ebay ($80 for everything, awesome!) have the fuel injectors professionally cleaned by a place like RC Engineering (there are cheaper ones out there too, they are the most expensive but I use them). Be sure to use Subaru gaskets on these parts: Intake and exhaust manifold, PCV valve, and thermostat Fel-Pro permatorque head gaskets and nothing else on freshly milled head. You'll have enough other things to work on down the road (alternator, starter, hoses, wheel bearings, drivehshaft, axles, etc) i wouldn't spend everything on a new engine when yours is such a good bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thanks for all the info. I'm not in too big a rush to get the car running. I have been driving my summer car lately and it's fine. I just want to have it done before the snow hits. I have a fine work area. A 2800 sqft garage with a lift, overhead trolley system, and tons of air tools. But Like I previously stated; I am a college student, out of my home state. So I can't build a car in a dorm, meaning I'm going to have to pay to have it done. And the shop I contacted said it would be around $1k for a headgasket and re-seal. I don't really want to get a new car because this one has a great trans. and just received brand new brakes (rotors and pads, and drums), axles, cv's, and wheel bearings. The items I listed were just put on the car and have 0 miles on them. I would hate to have to get rid of the car when I just had all that done to it. So if it's not a cracked head, or maybe just a headgasket then hopefully I can find a shop to do it for a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Here is the problem, just so maybe someone can toss me in the right direction. My car is a 1994 loyale 4wd. It has 180k and is stock. So here is some problems it has been having: First I noticed a very heavy coolant leak from under the car, then driving the temps. would get extremely high (even worse with a/c on), and when I was driving and opened the hood, coolant would poor out of the coolant reservoir. Then after all of this, there was a knock. And not until it was started the other day did the check engine light come on and blink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 . I never did catch where you are from. My car is in Bothell, Washington and I am in school in Monmouth, Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) And another issue is, I drove it for 150 miles while over heating ("in the red") and a minor knock, because I was driving home from school and was half way home when these issues started and I didn't want to leave it on the side of I5, so I babied it home. You guys say nothing should be cracked, but when they are that hot for that long, these blocks/heads are defiantly prone to cracking. Edited November 2, 2009 by brysawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Here is the problem, just so maybe someone can toss me in the right direction. My car is a 1994 loyale 4wd. It has 180k and is stock. So here is some problems it has been having: First I noticed a very heavy coolant leak from under the car, then driving the temps. would get extremely high (even worse with a/c on), and when I was driving and opened the hood, coolant would poor out of the coolant reservoir. Then after all of this, there was a knock. And not until it was started the other day did the check engine light come on and blink. The head gasket(s) are bad, or the waterpump is. You can do the job yourself, with the help you can get here, or take it to a shop like Smart Service. Theres 2 shops, one in SHoreline and the other is in Mukilteo. Shoreline - 206 417-0880 Mukilteo - 425 315-9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brysawn Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) The head gasket(s) are bad, or the waterpump is. You can do the job yourself, with the help you can get here, or take it to a shop like Smart Service. Theres 2 shops, one in SHoreline and the other is in Mukilteo. Shoreline - 206 417-0880 Mukilteo - 425 315-9999 Again, I am in school in Oregon, my car is in Washington. I can't work on a car in a dorm, and my parents sure aren't going to do the work. I've used smart service before, they are good guys. I made an appointment for Wednesday, and they are going to diagnose the issue. I am aware that it is not too tough to fix the problem, but it is difficult when I am 300 miles from the car. Edited November 2, 2009 by brysawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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