Speedwagon Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) I put the front end up in the air just now, and this is what I found: First, is the parking brake supposed to be on the front wheels? I've never seen that before, but it seemed to be the case here. I can rotate either front wheel, either direction, and no noise or problems encountered. I did this both in neutral, and in 1st. I then started the car, and put it in 1st. When I did that, the driver's side seemed fine, but the pass side was going thump thump thump, and was barely turning. I could easily grab the axle and stop it from turning at all, and I could feel the thumping. When driving the noise doesn't change if I'm going straight or turning, it's always there when the vehicle is moving forward under positive load(engine braking makes it stop). So obviously the problem lies with the pass side, but thoughts on this? Edited November 4, 2009 by Speedwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 yes ebrake on the EA81 is to the fronts. not sure how you can test t safely, but try to lock the front left wheel (pry bar thru the caliper/studs or something) and then see if the right wheel is spinning without the noises and catches. its an open diff, so only one can spin at a time with any force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 yes ebrake on the EA81 is to the fronts. not sure how you can test t safely, but try to lock the front left wheel (pry bar thru the caliper/studs or something) and then see if the right wheel is spinning without the noises and catches. its an open diff, so only one can spin at a time with any force. Yes, but they should have both been spinning equally, because they both had zero traction. I can try to grab the tire on the driver's side, but it spins too fast for me to want to grab the axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) dont grab the left tire when it is spinning. make sure the car is off, and brace a pry bar or steel tube/bolt either thru the vent of the rotor so it is locked against the caliper, or somehow else. On an open diff, this is the correct function, not both will be spinning at the same time, sometimes it may but not neccessarily. Edited November 4, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 have you tried taking off the tires and seeing exactly where the thumping is coming from? Is it a transmission problem, or is it one of the hubs/brakes? That is more common on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 dont grab the left tire when it is spinning. make sure the car is off, and brace a pry bar or steel tube/bolt either thru the vent of the rotor so it is locked against the caliper, or somehow else.On an open diff, this is the correct function, not both will be spinning at the same time, sometimes it may but not neccessarily. It's not spinning with that much force... and I had no problem stopping it at the tire. It did make the pass side spin, but no change in the noise. have you tried taking off the tires and seeing exactly where the thumping is coming from? Is it a transmission problem, or is it one of the hubs/brakes? That is more common on these. And it's definitely the transmission and not the hubs. When it makes the noise, I can see the pass side axle at the trans slightly move in an up/down kinda motion(I didn't look closely at the driver's side to see if it did the same thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) without the car running, and the car in neutral, front end in the air, can you test something on the right side? turn the wheel round and round, is there noise. Put a screwdriver up to the front spring coil, does it vibrate when you are turning the tire? Does the tire feel wobbly when you tug at the very top or very bottom and try to shake the tire? Bearing? i think once we elminate this stuff, maybe we can find out if you have a bad axle or something within the trans.with the front up, you can compare both sides results. Edited November 4, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Might want to pull the axles off the stubs and see if an output bearing for the passenger axle stub is bad. Also... if you do this, you could take out the front axles and run it in RWD and not put any stress on the front diff. At least temporarily. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) without the car running, and the car in neutral, front end in the air, can you test something on the right side?turn the wheel round and round, is there noise. Put a screwdriver up to the front spring coil, does it vibrate when you are turning the tire? Does the tire feel wobbly when you tug at the very top or very bottom and try to shake the tire? Bearing? i think once we elminate this stuff, maybe we can find out if you have a bad axle or something within the trans.with the front up, you can compare both sides results. The first thing I did after getting it in the air, was to spin each wheel by itself with the trans in neutral. I couldn't hear any noises, or feel anything abnormal when I did it. I didn't use a screwdriver to anything though. And no, there is no wobble on either side when I shook them. Might want to pull the axles off the stubs and see if an output bearing for the passenger axle stub is bad. Also... if you do this, you could take out the front axles and run it in RWD and not put any stress on the front diff. At least temporarily. Z I was thinking about doing this as a temp fix, until I get a new trans. Just to make sure, I can safely pull the front axles completely out with no problems, yes? They aren't holding anything together on this car, are they? And what size axle nut is that? My 32mm socket doesn't fit, and neither does my adjustable wrench. Edited November 5, 2009 by Speedwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 the axle is a 36mm you would need to disassemble the axles and install the ends into the hubs. They hold the hubs together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yes, but they should have both been spinning equally, because they both had zero traction. In theory, you are correct. But the reality is that both sides will have different amounts of friction due to bearing differences, wheel/tire mass, brake disc drag, etc, etc. So that it is NEVER the case with an open diff that they both turn the same amount. One will always turn at driving speed, the other will maybe rotate slowely or not at all. That is 100% normal and to be expected. So what is the nature of the noise when it's being driven? You are getting a thump, thump noise when it's under load? Sounds like a DOJ, CV, or maybe a wheel bearing issue. I doubt there's anything wrong with your transmission. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Could it just be the hub spline is stripped out on that side? Which would mean nothing wrong with the gearbox or CV axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danrenfroe2016 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 When I first got my brat, it did this, Was some VERY bad bearings on one hub... -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) In theory, you are correct. But the reality is that both sides will have different amounts of friction due to bearing differences, wheel/tire mass, brake disc drag, etc, etc. So that it is NEVER the case with an open diff that they both turn the same amount. One will always turn at driving speed, the other will maybe rotate slowely or not at all. That is 100% normal and to be expected. So what is the nature of the noise when it's being driven? You are getting a thump, thump noise when it's under load? Sounds like a DOJ, CV, or maybe a wheel bearing issue. I doubt there's anything wrong with your transmission. GD But wouldn't something like a wheel bearing make the noise all the time, regardless of transmission load? And it seems to do it less in reverse, than forward. And I think it's more of a ka-klunk type of noise than a straight thump. And yes, when under load, but only positive load. Negative load(or no load) to the transmission makes the noise go away. But I've heard wheel bearings starting to fail before, and this doesn't sound like that. What is a DOJ? Edited November 6, 2009 by Speedwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) But wouldn't something like a wheel bearing make the noise all the time, regardless of transmission load? And it seems to do it less in reverse, than forward. And I think it's more of a ka-klunk type of noise than a straight thump. And yes, when under load, but only positive load. Negative load(or no load) to the transmission makes the noise go away. But I've heard wheel bearings starting to fail before, and this doesn't sound like that. What is a DOJ? Not necessarily. Ive had a bad wheel bearing go thunk thunk thunk and then go away for a little while. A test for wheel bearings is with the car on the ground grab the top of the wheel and rock it back and forth to see if you can get the noise. But...i dont think its wheel bearing either. A DOJ (double offset joint)is the inner joint of the axles (closest to the trans). The outer is the CV (constant velocity). The CV operates in a similar manner as a universal joint on a normal rear wheel drive driveshaft where as the DOJ has the provision to move in and out a bit as well as what the CV does. Thats at least the way i understand it. As for your problem, you said that it looks like the inner section of the axle was moving in a weird way when you spun the axles. Im going to guess that its your axle and not your transmission thats the cause of the problem. I think the DOJ is toast. Do this test as well. Grab onto the drivers side axle in the center and try to push and pull it in. There should be a very little bit of play but not too much. Now grab the passenger side. I bet one of them will have a crazy amount of movement. Edited November 6, 2009 by hatchsub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Sounds like classic DOJ failure or lack of grease to me but it's hard to pinpoint without being there in person. Wheel bearings generally make either clicking/crunching noises, or they howl at freeway speeds. Thunking, or your "Ka-Thunk" noise could be a number of things - DOJ failure or binding due to lack of proper lubrication is a common problem. Also failed ball-joints can thunk and sometimes tap or rattle - especially when changing load as when suddenly accerating from a coast or stop. But to my trained ear, you are describing DOJ failure. When they get really bad the whole car will vibrate anytime it's under load. When they get INSANELY bad the culprit axle will violently pitch that side of the engine up and down causing it to feel much like one wheel is going over a washboard of speed-bumps. I've seen a fair number of DOJ failures..... in case you didn't notice GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Yeah... DOJ failure can make the whole engine and transmission buck, especially under load. I had a bad one on my '89GL, and it got so I'd have to put the car in 4wd going up hills in order to keep the vibration to a reasonable level (halving the torque on that particular front axle). I thought it was something in the transmission for sure, but replacing the axle fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Classic DOJ failure: Clunks, thunks, vibrates; sometimes so bad it feels like the entire transmission is about to fall out. But ONLY under positive throttle; as soon as you let off the gas all the symptoms go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say it's not the DOJ, or anything in the axle shafts or wheel hubs... I just drained the transmission... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 hmmmm...that changes things huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) thats a pretty big mouse turd eh. that hunk of metal was put there by the factory.. Only it was part of a gear/bearing and not supposed to do that. And you are out of warranty. trying to make things better somehow. I guess you will have to find a tranny then, or else keep driving it til it gets worse. might go for a long while, depending on where that turd came from. Edited November 6, 2009 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's hard to tell from a 2D picture, but that looks to be part of the front pinion gear. Time for a 5 speed swap. No point in putting another 4 speed in there. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 I just swung by the local junkyard, to see what Subarus they have right now. No 5spd D/Rs there, but a couple 4 spd D/Rs. They charge $125 for a trans. There's a 5spd D/R on CL in my area, but they are asking $250. They don't seem willing to lower the price, as I haven't received a response back from them in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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