Kia Sephia Sporty

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

According to info found online, Some Sportages came with 15/16" Master Cylinders and some Sportages came with 1" Master Cylinders.

~► http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1999/kia/sportage/brake/brake_master_cylinder.html

Edited April 7, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Some Master Cylinders of some Sportages, looks to have pretty Identical Fitment than the Sephia's one; I wish I could have both Master Cylinders Together and do the Proper Comparison & Take Measurements... But the Local Kia Dealer's salesmen are not prone to Help their clients with their "Projects" ...  ... They want to sell items according to the Vin Number.

I Asked another Kia-Forums' Member, who works at a Kia Dealer in USA, to do that side by side comparison for me, with no avail...

 

So, seems like I will have to go to Local Junk Yards in order to Search for a Sephia and a Sportage, remove both Master Cylinders and do the Comparison there... Unless I could Convince the Kia Dealer's Salesman to let me see together some master cylinders, and take measurements 'till I could find a Suitable replacement with increased bore.

Kind Regards.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Something that I unwittingly forgot to tell here, is that the Rear Drums became Oval due to Age and more than 160K miles of use; so everytime I adjust the Brake Shoes to the Proper measurements, the car becomes pretty Dangerous during Panic Braking only... It slides easily on the rear, as the rear wheels stops spinning, due to the oval worn drums.

So I am Glad that the Almost 80 Lbs Parts Box with the Fresh Rear Disc Brakes, is about to get here, in time to do the Swap Job during the Holy Week Vacations

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

AWESOME NEWS!!!

The girl at the Cargo & Courier company called me today, she said that the Huge Box full with Parts for the Rear Disc Brakes' swap, that Mr. Robert (GottaCruise) has Sent to me from USA, has arrived to Honduras, and now is undergoing the Customs Clearance's procedures. That means that I will go to pick it up soon!

Thank you So Much, Mr. Robert!   

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

THIS NEWS ARE REALLY AWESOME:
 

The Heavy Box, containing the Parts for the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap, already is at my Home! ...  ... the Girl at the Cargo & Courier company called today and gave me the Great News; so I went as fast as a fart, to pick it up, after paying the Shipping & Handling fees, plus the customs clearance's taxes.

Many, Many Thanks to my Friend, Mr. Robert (GottaCruise) for all his effort and hard times, finding the proper parts, between Junk Yards and online, to build this Awesome set, and sending this from USA, all the way down to Honduras; my Family and I are very, very Thankful... there will never be enough words to say how thankful we are.   

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Today I asked my Wife to Switch cars, because I've been feeling ill and the Automatic KiaStein is Softer than my Lifted & Manual BumbleBeast; so here you can see the Box, inside the KiaStein, at the Cargo & Courier's co. Parking lot:

 

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The Box at Home!

... ...

Here it lies at the Garage, next to my Li'l Daughter's Bike

 

and the Wooden PlayHouse I Built for her

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

 

 

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I'll continue my Research on Kia's Master Cylinders in order to find a Suitable Replacement, I'll post the Results here soon... The Box will remain as an "Ornament" on the Living Room of our tiny house, until I find the Proper Master Cylinder and until the Local Kia Dealer, gives me the couple of Backing Plates (Dust Covers) I will need to complete this Adventurous Project.

Once again: Thank you Mr. Robert, You're So Kind!

Greetings & Blessings.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I have been researching about Different Kias' Master Cylinders, searchin' for an easy suitable replacement; all this past weekend I went to several AfterMarket Stores, including Napa, also to the Local Kia Dealer's parts stores, carrying my "Vernier Scale" in order to take proper measurements and writing them on my old-fashioned "Paper" notebook.

I'll let you know the results of the Comparison and measurements taken from both Master Cylinders... (Sportage & Sephia) ...I hope that soon I'll finish my Research on the Kia's Master Cylinders, so far I've encountered different fitments on their outlets, and different measurements on their push rod depths; also not all the Sportages has said Push Rod with a extended tube, like the Second Gen Sephia or First Gen Spectra does.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The Most Suitable Replacement so far, seems to be a Sportage's Master Cylinder that I found at a Local Honduran Aftermarket parts' Store where I went with my Baby Girl; said Master Cylinder was surprisingly "Made in Japan" by Tokiko, and had the proper measurements, except that the bore was 1" (one inch) Which surpasses the Stock 7/8" and 15/16" Master Cylinders.

I continue the Research... wait for the Results.

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

After many days going from one place to another, Comparing Different Master Cylinders, taking Lots of Photos and writing all the measurements onto drawings... also after some working in the Computer, editing all that to condensate all the information into a couple of easily understandable images. I want to share the results here, because it could be helpful for more people.

 

But first, let me tell you that Despite that I tried to do my best measuring them, I won't give Scientifically Accurate Measurements; they're good but not "perfect" measurements. Remember: use all the information I post, at your own risk. Being written my disclaimer, let me share the Results of my investigation, so far...

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Comparison Between the Kia Sephia's 7/8" and 15/16" Master Cylinders:

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Finally, I found what seems to be a Direct Replacement Master Cylinder, it is almost identical to the 7/8" one from the Sephia; but this one is a Sportage's 1" Master Cylinder. See them Side by Side, with my vernier scale in front; also you can see their Part Numbers:

 

 

► The Box on the Left is for the Sephia's one; part Number: 0K2A1-49400

► The Box on the Right, is for the Sportage's one, Part Number: 0K08A-43440

The Sportage's one also comes in certain Hyundai Tucson.

The Reservoir Tank also fits between them; I tested the Sephia's one on the Sportage's Master Cylinder; look at it at the left Box's Top.

See the Following Image for Further Details:

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Here are the Details on the Kia Sportage's 0K08A-43440 Master Cylinder:

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The only Difference Between the Sephia's Master Cylinder, and the Sportage's Master Cylinder, is the only Problem: The Outlets on the Sephia's one has Flared Seats (Concave or inward) while the Seats on the Sportage's one, has Inverted Flared Seats (Convex or Outward), so Despite that Both Master Cylinders has 10 mm X 1.0 Pitch thread; their seats are opposite.

 

 

See this Picture for easier understanding:

 

 

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I could either buy some Adaptors for the Brake Lines to fit the Master Cyl. Outputs, Or, in case I could not get Adaptors, buy the upper Brake Lines from a Junk Yard, and Modify them, changing the fittings to the appropiate ones.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I posted a whole New Thread at the Off-Topic Forums' area, asking advice about the use of a Bigger Bore Sized Master Cylinder. I wrote there since seems like nobody cares about this thread ... so I hope to get Help, advice, etc if I post my non-Subaru questions there...

 

I posted that thread since april first, but seems like it did not passed the Moderator's approval, and I am alone with this ... ... once again.

 

So, to all of the lurking people who silently reads here: wish me Luck!

 

Kind Regards.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

 

Edit: Said thread appeared viewable to the public after twelve days... here is the Link:

 

~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/145461-increasing-master-cylinder-size-help-me-to-decide/

 

Kind Regards.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I've been searching for more than four months actively among local Car Pars' Stores for that elusive 15/16" Master Cylinder, either from Spectra or Sportage with no avail.

They offer to me, the stock 7/8" or two different Master Cylinders for Sportages, one is 15/16" but the design of the push rod is very different and will never fit onto the Sephia's Brake Booster safely; the other two options has 1" bore. Among these last two versions of the Sportage's 1" Master Cylinder, one of them also has the different push rod design like the 15/16" has, and the other is the one in the Photo I posted above, which fits the Sephia's booster exactly like the Stock Master Cylinder does.


I know that the size of the master cylinder bore directly affects braking force and pedal feel, also I know that it seems to be pretty Big for the application to go straight from 7/8" to 1" without trying the intermediate 15/16" size, and the 1" might lead to a very Hard brake Pedal and / or to loose a certain percentage of the Braking Power.

Despite that, local friends who are mechanics, told me that if I could, it worth Try to fit the 1" Master Cylinder to do a "Real Life Driving Tests" ... What they mean is that if I could grab a cheap, suitable 1" Master Cyl from a Junk Yard, only to do Tests driving the Car in a Safe Area, pushing the Brakes to the Maximum at Different Speeds and Trying it at average driving conditions, such as Cruising, parking lot Maneuvering, Street Driving, etc... in order to be Really Sure if it will be alright to increase the 7/8" to 1" without being Dangerous, nor having a too stiff brake Pedal.

I agree that it worth try, let me explain why - each coin has Two Sides:

In one side: The Sephia's brake pedal always has been very Spongy and it takes to be pushed around two inches or more in order to start stopping the car; also, the Sephia's Brake Pedal has a very Long movement, and it Never has been sensitive, as the rest of the cars on same segment are, in fact it is Not sensitive at all.

The only -few- days I could have a Less Spongy (means Stronger) & Taller Brake Pedal, but still without being sensitive at all, are during the first two weeks after I adjust the Brake Shoes at the Rear Drums; but that only moves the point where the pedal starts to brake, one inch or a little bit more Up, and That's it.

In the other side: As I stated above, the Sephia's brake pedal has a very long movement, also both master cylinders ( the 7/8" from the Sephia, and the 1" from the Sportage) has pretty close Push Rod measurements, almost identical, but seems like the Brake Pedal Run on the Sportage, is a little less than the Sephia... but I am not completely Sure of that statement since it was told to me by a Friend Mechanic.

So if all that is True, the longer brake pedal movement on the Sephia, might compensate somehow, the stiffer action that an increased bore sized Master Cylinder could give, and if the 1" works well, it might be the Solution for the Spongy Pedal and -maybe- the Lack of sensitiveness on it.

Or, it could could be a complete Mistake to do such swap, and the Brake Pedal could end being too stiif and / or loosing Brake Power.

Seems like the only way to know if it Works or Not, and if it worth it or not; is to Try it out and do "Real Life Driving Tests"

So, I hope I could obtain one of those 1" Master Cylinders, and the appropiate Fitting adaptors to safely plug the Sephia's Brake Lines to it, and I will report back the Results in the most Honest way I could.

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

My plan is to dedicate this whole weekend, starting early tomorrow, to do all this list:

► Search for the Increased Bore Master Cylinder,

► Obtaining it,

► Buy some Adaptors for the Brake Lines to fit the Master Cyl. Outputs,

► Or, in case I could not get Adaptors, buy the upper Brake Lines from a Junk Yard, and Modify them, changing the fittings to the appropiate ones.

► Remove the Old Master Cylinder. ( obviously ),

► Install the other one with bigger bore size,

► Either put the Adaptors on the Brake Lines or Change the upper Lines to the Modified ones.

► Pour Brake Fluid... another obvious step, isn't it?

► Bleed the System... ...and:

Having Fun with the Driving Tests!!!

I Hope in God that this will going to be alright, I've been measuring, researching, remeasuring once again, investigating, taking photos, etc, etc, etc... for long time enough to be somehow expecting good results; but as I always say: "the man proposes and God disposes"; That's why I always leave everything in the hands of my dear father, God.

I'll post the Results, as soon as possible.

Best regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I forgot to write, that the Idea is to Change the Master Cylinder, some time BEFORE doing the Rear Disc Brakes' swap, in order to do many driving test, to properly establish if it improves the overal braking behaviour of the Car, or notice if the Brakes performs even worse, or if is a Braking performance gain, if any; and how much; at the Brake Pedals, at the Wheels, if the wheels Lock easier or never... etc...

 

Everything should be Properly Tested in Many different ways, with car Loaded and unloaded, at normal speeds, faster, slower, braking in Curves, Panic Braking, normal Braking, slow braking, etc, etc, etc... and then I will report the results here.

 

Finally after all that, I will take a desition, if it is worth to Keep the Bigger bore master cylinder or the Smaller one, Prior to do the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap.

 

If I do the Rear Disc brakes' Swap first, I will never be able to notice the True Difference that a Different Master Cylinder could make in the overall braking performance of the Sephia, that is why I will try the Master Cylinder change, first. Wish me Luck!

 

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Well, as I promised, here comes the Updates with the Results.

After four months searching locally for a suitable Master Cylinder replacement in 15/16" size with no avail, I chose to try the 1" master cylinder, with the idea that if it doesn't perform well, I could use it short time, until I could order the 15/16" version online.

But worth try the 1" master cylinder anyway, otherwise I'll live with the doubt of whether it could have worked well, or not.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

So, I started this Saturday's early morning, and went asking to the Local Kia Dealer for the Backing Plates (Dust covers) I ordered for the Rear Disc Brakes Swap, more than a Month ago ... they still don't know the date that they will arrive here, but they will come, someday...

Also, one more time I asked to the Kia Dealer's Salesman for the Sportage's 15/16" Master Cylinder featuring the elongated push rod, like the Sephia, and once again he showed me the 1" master cylinder he has with that feature and same measurements than the Sephia's one.

So, I decided to tell him about my Rear Disc Brakes' Swap project and the three things I found to be the Culprit on the Weak Brakes of the Second gen Sephia; the Kia Dealer's Manager came as well and heard all my Story... and asked me for the web page where I posted everything, so I gave him this URL and he went to pick up his Tablet PC at his office...

Edited April 7, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Long Story Short: Very Kindly, he gave me his especial "Employee" Discount in order to let me Buy very Cheap, the Original Kia Sportage Master Cylinder and do my Driving Tests with a Brand New Master Cylinder...

I decided that it was very good idea, because a New part will always be better than a used one that might be worn, So, I Purchased that Sportage's Master Cylinder, and went immediately to buy a couple of Fittings to install it properly on the Sephia's brake lines.

After some hours and many especialized stores, sadly I never found the proper adaptors for the different fitting seats; so I ended purchasing two brand new fittings, and I borrowed from a mechanic friend, a tool to make the flared ends at each brake line, in order to fit the New Master Cylinder.

That means that I would have to Cut the Brake line's seats and remove the original fittings for the Flared seats, then place the new fittings for the inverted flared seats, and using the above mentioned tool to create flared ends at each brake line.

That leads me to a Point of No Return: To do the Adaptation or Not, that was my Dilemma... but with everything ready on the car, and the whole weekend programmed only for doing this... I did it!

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The Brand New Kia Sportage's Master Cylinder:





The Brand New Fittings for the Sephia's Brake Lines: