05 Outback XT Won't Shift Into 3rd

[nycoutback]

My wife and I have been having an issue with our Outback that the delearship says "they can't reproduce. so they can't fit it."

 

From time-to-time the automatic trans won't shift into 3rd gear (both when the car is cold or after I have been driving it for a while). It also will not allow me to get above 2nd gear in sportshift. It will just redline!

 

We've taken it to ALL of the dealerships in the NYC area (ones that are supposed to be superior) and they can't fix it.

 

The problem does not happen all the time, but highway driving obviously becomes impossible when it is happening, so the car has become completely unrealiable.

 

Here is some info on the car:

2005 Outback XT

80k miles (original trans and engine)

no accidents

automatic/sport shift transmission

fluids are good (checked and rechecked)

no third-party modifications have been made to the vehicle.

 

Also, I am getting the "Ill.3" display on the odometer, which I know is just the illumination setting, but I do not know why this reading shows up randomly and my wife seems to think one has to do with the other.

 

Perhaps it is an electical problem and she is right about that?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[98obster]

My wife and I have been having an issue with our Outback that the delearship says "they can't reproduce. so they can't fit it."

 

From time-to-time the automatic trans won't shift into 3rd gear (both when the car is cold or after I have been driving it for a while). It also will not allow me to get above 2nd gear in sportshift. It will just redline!

 

We've taken it to ALL of the dealerships in the NYC area (ones that are supposed to be superior) and they can't fix it.

 

The problem does not happen all the time, but highway driving obviously becomes impossible when it is happening, so the car has become completely unrealiable.

 

Here is some info on the car:

2005 Outback XT

80k miles (original trans and engine)

no accidents

automatic/sport shift transmission

fluids are good (checked and rechecked)

no third-party modifications have been made to the vehicle.

 

Also, I am getting the "Ill.3" display on the odometer, which I know is just the illumination setting, but I do not know why this reading shows up randomly and my wife seems to think one has to do with the other.

 

Perhaps it is an electical problem and she is right about that?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

hmmm, just a shot in the dark...don't know how you would do it on your model (discount battery for 1/2 hr ?) but you could reset reset the ecu/tcu and get a fluid flush.

[Fairtax4me]

Does it stay in just second gear if you slow down or stop? Or will it use first and second when this happens?

[nycoutback]

Does it stay in just second gear if you slow down or stop? Or will it use first and second when this happens?

 

If I slow down it appears to go into first. I can use sportshift mode to force it into 1st as well.

[bheinen74]

my understanding so far on sportshift, is it is designed to bounce off redline speed limit before shifting up.

are you sure it is going to rpm cutoff?

 

I am not too familiar yet, just getting into this on my car havent had too long.

[nycoutback]

I can try disconnecting the battery, but since it's been serviced soo much for this problem I would hope they have done that already.

 

They simply cannot proceed without an error code, which I find seriously lame. I work with computers, I know that diagnosing a problem is often difficult in a complex machine, but it seems to me that some of these "technicians" lack a fundamental understanding of the individual systems involved and rely on error codes for everything!

 

Trust me Subaru. The problem is real and had us stuck on a busy highway at night with a baby in the back. Error code or NOT!

[nycoutback]

my understanding so far on sportshift, is it is designed to bounce off redline speed limit before shifting up.

are you sure it is going to rpm cutoff?

 

I am not too familiar yet, just getting into this on my car havent had too long.

 

This problem exists when the car is in regular automatic mode. I tried using sportshift to take it into third but it remains in second. RPMs will redline if I give it enough gas and the car cannot get much over 20mph. Trying to get to 25mph would redline the car.

[bheinen74]

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12686&highlight=sport+shift

 

 

that thread may help determine if there is a problem.

[nycoutback]

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12686&highlight=sport+shift

 

 

that thread may help determine if there is a problem.

 

Thanks. I am really not convinced it is related to the sportsmode. I basically do not use it. Again, I mainly used it to try to get the car into third because it wasn't doing so in automatic mode.

 

It is interesting to know that sportshift will only shift gears right about redline, so I am thinking about just punching it on a long enough stretch of road and see if it pushes through. Doubt it, I remember getting the RPMs very high... but I do shy away from redlining.

[nipper]

The ECU will keep the car from doing damage to itself.

 

You have an interesting problem. Unfortunitly sportshift is not mechanically connected the same way a PRND321 is.

 

Nothing has changed over the years otherwise. The car still needs inputs from engine RPM, Road speed (vss), and engine load (MAP) and line (pump) pressure. Without any of these the car may not shift. Shifting is a balance between line pressure and govenor pressure (Road speed).

 

You are loosing signal someplace, not enough to throw a CEL, but enough to screw things up.

 

Unreliable is a car that leaves you stranded, this will not do that.

 

You say the fluids are OK, but when was the last time the fluid was changed?

 

A problem that comes and goes is an electrical issue, not a mechanical one.

 

What you are going to have to do, is leave the car with the dealership. Tell them to throw the subaru monitor on it, and have a mechainc that lives the farthest away take the car and use it. Give them permission to use the car for personal use.

 

Contact the subaru area rep and talk to him.

 

Now as far as diagnoses, lets do some micro analyzing. How long does the car run when this happens. Is it in the AM or Pm or doesnt matter. Is it humid rainy or dry outside. Does it do it just under acceleration or normal driving?

 

nipper

[hankosolder2]

Unreliable is a car that leaves you stranded, this will not do that.

 

nipper

 

I agree with 90% of your comments on this problem, Nipper, but I'd say that a car that can't be driven over 20mph is barely better than one which can't run at all- that's not fast enough to drive safely in even suburban traffic, let alone on the highway.

 

I don't have an automatic, but doesn't 20mph sound like a really low speed for the redline in 2nd gear? Does the OP definitely feel a first to second shift occurring?

 

Here's a thought- it sounds like the OP is backing off the throttle prior to hitting the rev-limiter. Perhaps the "trigger" event for setting a code is hitting the rev limiter. I'd say press on till the engine stutters (the rev limiter is usually set about 500 RPM higher than the redline on the tach) and see what happens. If you can force it to set a code, it might make the diagnosis easier for the technicians.

 

I'd also suggest making a video clip of the problem (with a friend- safety first!) to show techs... sometimes they dismiss problems as operator error and if you can show them a clip of the car's tach at redline, the speedo at 20 and the selector in "D" they might dig a little harder!

 

Nathan

[bheinen74]

basics.

drain and replace ATF fluid, replace the ATF filter..

[nipper]

20 mph is 1st gear. so your not even upshifting at all. second is better for much higher then that.

 

 

nipper

[torxxx]

Its nothing to do with fluids. It sounds like your car is kicking in and out of fail safe mode. Fail safe mode blocks 3rd and 4th gear from engaging.

 

Causes of this fail safe mode that controls shifting patterns: Duty A solenoid (line pressure switch) failing or intermittent connection.

 

I had one in the shop the other day that has similar shift issues and I replaced that Duty A switch and it fixed it.

 

I'm not familiar with the TCU light on those, but I think it has a AT Temp light that will stay on, but the check engine light will not. Are you having that light on?

[nycoutback]

You are loosing signal someplace, not enough to throw a CEL, but enough to screw things up.

 

Could a bad speed sensor cause this? The ATF was drained, filter was replaced, and new ATF was put in. This did not solve the issue.

 

Now as far as diagnoses, lets do some micro analyzing. How long does the car run when this happens. Is it in the AM or Pm or doesnt matter. Is it humid rainy or dry outside. Does it do it just under acceleration or normal driving?

 

The conditions didn't seem to matter. I say that because one night recently it was raining slightly and it gave us the most trouble on that day. But this problem has happened when the car is cold, when I've been driving it, dry, rain, etc. Even while I was driving it doing 60mph it up and decided 2nd gear was appropriate.

[nycoutback]

Its nothing to do with fluids. It sounds like your car is kicking in and out of fail safe mode. Fail safe mode blocks 3rd and 4th gear from engaging.

 

Causes of this fail safe mode that controls shifting patterns: Duty A solenoid (line pressure switch) failing or intermittent connection.

 

I had one in the shop the other day that has similar shift issues and I replaced that Duty A switch and it fixed it.

 

I'm not familiar with the TCU light on those, but I think it has a AT Temp light that will stay on, but the check engine light will not. Are you having that light on?

 

I think this is actually it. What I HAVE NOT done is push it to the rev limiter, which is what I am going to try to do the next time it happens. Hopefully that will get a code to stick. Don't know what else to try.

[nipper]

The TCU does hold codes. Someone needs to go in there and check for codes.

 

The Duty A is possible.

 

The car would have to throw both VSS sensors to go into limp mode. Your car isnt going into limp mode, it is bascially going into confused mode. I know older mechanical valve bodied will force an upshift no matter what you select if you get to redline too long. With your tranny I am not sure if it will do that, or it depends upon your TCU forcing the upshift via the solenoid. If it does the latter you wont get an upshift no matter what if there is a solenoid issue.

 

nipper

[nycoutback]

The TCU does hold codes. Someone needs to go in there and check for codes.

 

The Duty A is possible.

 

The car would have to throw both VSS sensors to go into limp mode. Your car isnt going into limp mode, it is bascially going into confused mode. I know older mechanical valve bodied will force an upshift no matter what you select if you get to redline too long. With your tranny I am not sure if it will do that, or it depends upon your TCU forcing the upshift via the solenoid. If it does the latter you wont get an upshift no matter what if there is a solenoid issue.

 

nipper

 

well, my understanding of limp-mode is that it caps the revs and won't let it redline. Is that correct?

 

If so, I agree it's not in limp mode because I am getting very high revs in 2 (maybe not to the limiter because I have been reluctant to try it - but will) I am just not getting shifted into third in automatic (and/or sport mode) and can't force it into 3rd by using the manumatic.

[nipper]

well, my understanding of limp-mode is that it caps the revs and won't let it redline. Is that correct?

 

If so, I agree it's not in limp mode because I am getting very high revs in 2 (maybe not to the limiter because I have been reluctant to try it - but will) I am just not getting shifted into third in automatic (and/or sport mode) and can't force it into 3rd by using the manumatic.

 

Yes limp mode is 4500-5000 rpm max and 50mph, no lockup, no AWD. This is not limp mode. Redline on the tach is actually a lilttle below the govenor rpm i do believe. I believe you have a dying solenoid someplace or a bad harness.

[nycoutback]

Progress! sorta.

 

It is raining here today. Started it and put it into sport mode and the problem was there-just very high revving in second and no third. I took it out of sport mode it was the same (high revving in second and no third).

 

So I got to a stretch of highway, put it back into sport mode and gunned it, it redlined in second but it kicked into third soon after, I would say about 5200 rpm.

 

I then took it out of sport mode and it drove fine after that.

 

So I am thinking that this has to be a sensor of some kind and probably moisture has something to do with it. The tranny (mechanically anway) seems to be doing what it is supposed to be doing, it's just getting the wrong info.

 

Still... no CEL. So I am assuming, no codes. Is that right?

[nipper]

Ah transmission codes (with the exception of a few) have nothing to do with the CEL. They have to be pulled independently through thier own connector.

 

nipper

[nycoutback]

nipper i really appreciate your help. i am making progress now at least.

 

i swear one day i'm going to know what the hell i'm talking about. :-\

[jonb96150]

I know this is an old thread, but my 05 o.b. xt is doing this same thing. We can force it into 3rd by hitting redline and sportshifting into 3rd. Then it's good until it does it again, usually about 2 to 5 times a week.

 

Also will put itself into neutral at random times. Sometimes associated with a bump in the road, other times on a smooth road.

 

Dealer can't find any codes, we even let their tech take it home and back in hopes of it happening. Of course it didn't do it for the tech. And of course they don't know how to proceed without a code telling them what to do next.

 

Fluid is at correct level, and is not burnt, but I don't think this is a fluid issue.

 

Just hoping the original poster is still on this board and can tell me how he resolved the issue.

Thanks in advance.

[Fairtax4me]

Don't think we'll get much out of him. The last time he was on the board was in November 2009. That's the last time he was logged in anyway.

 

If you dealer can't figure it out, you might try calling SOA and ask if there are any Technical Service Bulletins out for this problem. The odds that this is a common issue on newer soobs seem pretty high if you ask me.

[nipper]

I know this is an old thread, but my 05 o.b. xt is doing this same thing. We can force it into 3rd by hitting redline and sportshifting into 3rd. Then it's good until it does it again, usually about 2 to 5 times a week.

 

Also will put itself into neutral at random times. Sometimes associated with a bump in the road, other times on a smooth road.

 

Dealer can't find any codes, we even let their tech take it home and back in hopes of it happening. Of course it didn't do it for the tech. And of course they don't know how to proceed without a code telling them what to do next.

 

Fluid is at correct level, and is not burnt, but I don't think this is a fluid issue.

 

Just hoping the original poster is still on this board and can tell me how he resolved the issue.

Thanks in advance.

 

Of course there are things they can do without codes, just this dealer is very lazy, does not want to comit time to true diagnostics and may njot have truly talented and certified machanics.

 

Codes are a tool, not the answer.

 

Things it can be, a worn Inhibitor switch (not always telling the car what the selector is in), a bad motor mount, a bad cable or cable out of adjustment, or a valve body issue.

 

What is happening is for some reason the car thinks you have decided to hold 2nd gear. Every modern trannywill force an upshift at redline even when the operator decides to hold a gear. Netural after a bump is pointing to the gear selector cable/mechanisim being out of adjustment.

 

This may be several issues not just one.