gandalfthew1te Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I have 1992 Subaru Legacy Wagon (well actually two of them but the other one had a head gasket blow out @ 145,000 a couple weeks back) which has a really intermittent problem. Actually, it was a bit of dejavu when this 'new' 167k Subie did exactly what my other Subie had a tendency to do once in a while. What happens is that randomly I will hear clicking in rapid succession from what I presume must be some sort of relay. The sound seems to emanate from under the dash on the passenger side of the car. When the clicking starts, the engine sputters, and in the worst cases it will cut out altogether. I had a theory that the 'clicking' was somehow connected with the air blower, since the the air blower would also stumble when the relay clicked, but perhaps it is the other way around, that all electrical systems (though lights seem unaffected) cut out when this happens. Unfortunately this is completely random and will go away for months on end, so that it can't be reproduced in the shop. However, driving in traffic with the engine cutting out no matter how infrequent remains one of my least favorite past-times. The engine starts right up again, but this last time as soon as the car was started the relay would click and kill my engine again. This happened several times the last 1/4 mile home. The next morning the problem had vanished again. Any ideas as to what could be the cause? I'm guessing it has to be a problem specific to this year and model since I've no experienced it in two different vehicles, but I can't find anything like it on internet searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Not sure what relays there may be under the dash on the passenger side. Those should all be on the drivers side. Have you pulled the kick panels off to see what all is under there as far as wiring is concerned? Someone on here has a FSM for the 92 model year on his website. I can't remember who it was but I'll look for it and post a link for you when I find it. Found it. Courtesy of Log1call. The file is 1992_legacy_full http://cid-4ca3c3459aaa7f7f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public Edited November 14, 2009 by Fairtax4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalfthew1te Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Thank. Yes, after studying the manual I see the A/C relay. Is it possible that this relay would cause the issues even though I'm not using the A/C at all? This is the diagram of the relay: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 It may not be that relay that is causing the problem, but rather that relay may be exhibiting a symptom related to the problem. If the relay is clicking then the coil side is being energized and de-energized, probably through a short. The trick is to find out where the short is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 When the car stalls do you loose all power, or just the enigne cutting out? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalfthew1te Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 I don't lose power to the headlights, but I know the blower turns off - what other power is there that could turn off? The check engine light was on at those times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Check engine light is a good diagnostic aid. Scan the codes and post them here. I don't know exactly how but the FSM should tell you how to get the CEL to flash the codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalfthew1te Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Next time I'm in a (warm) shop/garage I'll have to do that. This morning the temp was -20. Right now there is a slough of other problems that I should probably address before I can get any sort of accurate diagnostic. First the AWD needs to be up and working again, and solenoid replaced so I don't have to push the release button to shift out of park. Come to think of it though, on my other Subie, the check engine light would not stay on, and when I took it to the shop all they came up with was 32 and 23. They confirmed that the MAF was bad. Here is when I found out that their rates are insanely unjustifyable. For MAF installation they quoted me $145.50. I bought a new MAF and installed it in 10 minutes using whatever tools I had in the car! So their hourly rate is what, $873/hr?? I'm still peeved over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The first thing to do is to pop the hood. Start the car turn on the usual suspects. Then start shaking every wire you can see. Pay special atention to the main fuse box under the hood. Then do the same thing for under the dash. I think you just have a bad connection, and the most likely culprit is one of the fuseable links or the connections at the main fuse box. Next I would check behind the fusebox under the dash. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm actually having the exact same problem with my '92 5 speed Legacy. Occasionally I'll hear what sounds like a relay going absolutely spastic, from behind the passenger side of the dash. When it does, the car will either slightly stumble or totally cut out for about half a second. I haven't noticed it to result in complete power loss though, just engine cut out. I don't have any check engine lights, so I don't suspect Mr. Balrog defeating Gandalf's spastic relay issue and check engine light are related. Also, if I'm not mistaken, using defrost will engage the A/C system too. Unless you like driving around without a heater, you're probably using "A/C." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 That may be the main relay, not sure. Is it the same one that clicks when you turn the car on? Check your battery cables and Alt output. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrand Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 That may be the main relay, not sure. Is it the same one that clicks when you turn the car on? Check your battery cables and Alt output. nipper I second this....a loose connection or intermittent out put on alternator cacan cause system voltage to fall below enough to run car-happened on my 91 Leg when brushes on alternator wore enough to have intermittent contact. Alt light never came on...can you wire up a volt meter to watch system voltage during driving and during the failure good luck and let us know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The alt is brand new. It was replaced shortly before I got the car, so it might not have been hooked up snugly. I'll check that. When I drive the car again, I'll also see if it seems to be the same relay as during start up. Checking the voltages, that's going to be a bit trickier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmark7 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 my '98 2.2 did the same thing, crank sensor code, but it straightened itself out after bout hour and a half, been fine since then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 There is no such thing as a "brand new" altenator. Unless the rebuild came from a local shop or subaru, it is most likely not fully rebuilt either. Check the Alt never assume. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I drove it last night and, while sitting at a light, did some playing. I had the defrost/heat going and the relay started going crazy. As soon as I turned off the defrost, the spasms stopped and engine idle smoothed out. Turned it back on and the relay went nuts again. So, unless you believe in unbelievable coincidences, I'd say it has something to do with the A/C relay. I figure I'll replace it and see if it fixes the issue. If not, I get to dig more. Yay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 To the OP, is it temp related? When the temp gets to 0F or below, my '90 EJ22 clicks from the front passenger side and the RPM fluctuates 500 RPM, 'til fully warm. I replaced that relay(?) behind the glove box w/another used one and still have the issue. Td Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I test drove a 1st gen Legacy before buying my 95... it drove ok but it had clattering relay sounds on the passengers side - just as described here. I drove the car a couple miles with no issue but that relay sound was there with each little ripple in the road. I wondered at the time if it was responding to a switch in the driver's seat for occupancy detection. I know that car is still on the lot ... I wonder if others have been warned off by the same unwelcome noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 This trouble sounds like a bad power connection somewhere. Since the blower motor is being effected also I would check out the power circuits that feed to the blower motor for a bad connection. There may be signs of overheating at the bad connection if this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalfthew1te Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 We finally fixed the stalling problem. Long story short, it was a really grimy IAC! In my researching of the problem I had finally found another thread online with the same sort of stalling symptoms where it had been an IAC. So the next time I had some work done on the car, I asked my mechanic to look at the IAC. He said it was really dirty, and he gave it a thorough cleaning. I can't say that the car doesn't hesitate when the heater is turned on, but it doesn't stall out anymore, so I'm happy. I gather that the reason that it only has that problem when the temp is around freezing is because the A/C comes on when the defrost is engaged up to freezing temps but not below. So when I'm driving around the temperature fluctuates right around the temp point when the A/C engages, so it seemingly randomly engages while I'm driving and the temp rises above freezing, and this in turn puts extra strain on the electrical system. When driving this would cause the car to hesitate for an instant, but not stall out because it still had enough power. When idling at an intersection, the IAC and not my foot on the accelerator was controlling the rate of fuel flow, so the IAC couldn't react fast enough to deal with the extra load on the alternator and the car died. Does this sound plausible, or am I way off base with my deduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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