EJ22E rebuild, and secret O-rings

[bosango]

Greetings all! I come here from a long history of driving VWs and, of course, rebuilding their engines. It's nice to see that there's a good support community among the Suby crowd. Maybe it's a mid-life crisis, but I'm selling my last VW and just picked up a very nice '93 Legacy with a well-running leakless engine and a knock on the #3 cylinder. I'm planning on taking it to bits soon and replacing, at the very least, the crank and rod bearings, and rings, as long as I'm there. Of course, I'll check all the clearances and wear limits and all that nonsense to make sure everything is reasonably reusable. This being my first Suby rebuild, I have some questions:

 

1) On the diagrams in the factory manual, there appear to be a few O-rings between the block halves. Are these available separately and, if so, from where?

 

2) I've read all the warnings about replacing the rear seal. Does this still hold true if the case is opened? I mean, it's going to fall out anyway so why not replace it?

 

3) Is it really necessary to replace the head gaskets? I know the purists will say this must be done, but it sort of goes against my VW ways where it's almost a badge of honor to reuse parts until they completely fall apart (a little copper spray = good as new?). The rocker and head assemblies seem to be in fine shape so I was just planning on leaving them be.

 

4) I'll follow the proper procedure to remove the pistons, but I'm wondering why the halves can't be pulled apart with the pistons still connected. Is there just too much friction there, or too much of a risk of gouging the case?

 

5) Why did I wait so long to get a Subaru?

[GeneralDisorder]

Welcome! You'll find out quick that this isn't a VW - but that's a good thing in the opinion of most here.

 

First of all - what is this knock? Are you *sure* you have it diagnosed correctly? The engine in your car is known to be reliable and mechanical-failure free for typically in the range of 300k+ miles...... I've spoke with numerous Subaru Master Tech's that have *never* seen an EJ22 with less than 300k and a major mechanical failure (that wasn't due to running it without oil).

 

I would tend to *not* rebuild the EJ22's as they are so easy to come by for dirt cheap and last such a long time that it's rarely worth the effort.

 

1) On the diagrams in the factory manual, there appear to be a few O-rings between the block halves. Are these available separately and, if so, from where?

 

They can be purchased seperately from the Subaru dealer and I would reccomend no other place. They are inexpensive and you want the best for seals that are that far in.

 

2) I've read all the warnings about replacing the rear seal. Does this still hold true if the case is opened? I mean, it's going to fall out anyway so why not replace it?

 

Absolutely replace it if you are splitting the case. The cautions are for those that are replacing them without dissasembly.

 

3) Is it really necessary to replace the head gaskets? I know the purists will say this must be done, but it sort of goes against my VW ways where it's almost a badge of honor to reuse parts until they completely fall apart (a little copper spray = good as new?). The rocker and head assemblies seem to be in fine shape so I was just planning on leaving them be.

 

Yes - this isn't VW land and they will be nasty and destroyed comming off. Remember these seal coolant passages and they are graphite impregnated metal head gaskets. Besides the fire ring not sealing after being crushed, the coolant passages will have their way with the graphite and it will be a yummy mess - half of the gasket material will be stuck to the heads and block. They must be replaced every time. Sorry. They are installed DRY - no sealant of any kind - no spray, no goop, NOTHING.

 

4) I'll follow the proper procedure to remove the pistons, but I'm wondering why the halves can't be pulled apart with the pistons still connected. Is there just too much friction there, or too much of a risk of gouging the case?

 

The main bearings are in the way. The EJ engines have 5 of them. The pistons cannot be inserted from the bottom nor can they be removed from that direction. It's much too fiddly to try and undo the rod bolts. With a water cooled block there is no access from the bottom or the top to the bearing cavity.

 

5) Why did I wait so long to get a Subaru?

 

That's tough to say - I know a few VW fanatics and I've known a couple that bought a Subaru to steal the engine from but liked it so much they just kept it. I've coverted a few Baja bug folks to Subaru's - 4WD with independent suspension is very tempting....

 

You made the right move and the '93 you have is the BEST possible one to start with. They are so incredibly easy to work on and really amazingly reliable. I just bought a '91 for $250 on craigslist, drove it home.... replaced a single failed injector (215k on it) and been driving it all day today. Simply amazing.

 

They occasionally need attention in order to be in top-tier condition, but really they will rarely strand you somewhere.

 

GD

Edited November 26, 2009 by GeneralDisorder

[hankosolder2]

Two thoughts:

 

These engines are inexpensive and, in 2.2L form, exceptionally long lived. Have you considered a junkyard or used JDM engine? You can probably buy a complete used engine, do the seals, waterpump, T-belt, etc for about what spend fixing the rod-knocking one you own- and get 100K more miles out of the used engine. Of course, if you really want to tear it down and get down to the nitty-gritty because it's a fun /educational challenge, more power to you sir! I can totally respect that.

 

You really, really don't want to re use head gaskets on these cars. They are designed to crush. Remember, there are coolant passages near the combustion chamber... so it's got to keep the compression in the cylinder, pass oil and coolant through to the heads and keep all those things from mixing at extreme temps and pressures.

 

I'll leave the other Q's to those more knowledgable than I.

[hankosolder2]

Ah, General Disorder, you got there first. What he said!

[bosango]

Thanks Dr. Disorder, all great advice! As for the #3 bearings... When I first got the car it had terrible lifter noise on the right side (being a VW type, I know all about lifter noise). I took out the VLAs, cleaned them, pumped them back up, and put them back in. They went flat again in about 10 minutes. Thanks to advise from this forum, I replaced that little O-ring behind the oil pump (it was in bad shape), as well as cleaned out the rocker arm shaft and all the arm holes. That fixed the lifter problem just fine, but it made it possible to hear the knock. The knock gets much quieter if I disconnect the #3 injector. So, I figure maybe it wasn't getting enough oil back there on account of the wanked out O-ring and that may have led to the bearing problem. One of the guys from the local Subaru repair specialist shop took a listen, throttled it up a bit, and said it sure sounded like a rod bearing to him.

 

Now what's this about never being stranded somewhere? That's something I'm going to have to get used to. Along with heat, speed, power, not having to scream above the engine noise, not getting pulled over driving through Utah in a hippiemobile...

[Mugs]

Some will tell you that you have to take out the wirst pins via thes holes in the ends of the block. That is a a major major major pain and I have never been successful at it. The way to split the case is start to sperate it until it gets "floppy" then just start taking off the rod bolts (keeping them in order of course) untill you have the pistons disconecte from one side of the block. Pull the half off and then the rest is easy as pie.

 

Or you can save yourself a whole lot of head ache and go to your local JY and get an engine out of a car (they go for about 125 here) and then buy the re-seal and timing kits from eother e-bay or other reputable sites mentioned on this forum (you be out about (300 buck tops for everything tbelt kit, pulleys, h20 pump, and seals)

 

Then if you want to "see" how subies are put together save the old block and tear it down later.

 

P.S. I was a vw guy for twenty years..now I frikin hate the things and wonder why I ever messed with them. This hate came in part buy me having to work on them professionally and watching them get worked on for about a year or so.

[Gloyale]

Welcome.

 

Good for you for wanting to do a rebuild.

 

I am tired of all the "just toss in a JDM or JY motor" talk. In my opinion it is a VERY short sighted solution, and a gamble at best.

 

The BEST option is a rebuild.

 

Get the large coolant passage O-ring (the orange one, special rubber for coolant) from Subaru. The other 3 o-rings are the same size, and can be standard black rubber just make sure to get a proper diameter and thickness.

 

Definately get yourself a 14mm Hex head (allen) type socket, 1/2 drive prefferably, to remove the wrist pin access caps. And then, fashion a long hook out of rod stock, and attach a slide hammer to it to pull the wrist pins(after removing the circlip of course)

 

 

Some will tell you that you have to take out the wirst pins via thes holes in the ends of the block. That is a a major major major pain and I have never been successful at it. The way to split the case is start to sperate it until it gets "floppy" then just start taking off the rod bolts (keeping them in order of course) untill you have the pistons disconecte from one side of the block. Pull the half off and then the rest is easy as pie.

 

You simply don't have the correct tool (stiff hook, slide hammer, cool head and patience)

 

Have you actually rebuilt one and put it back toghether into a running engine that way....? And if you have, did you warn the poor fool that's driving that car now?

 

It is possible to split the halves, unbolt 2 of the rod caps and then seperate, but it is a hassle. I ONLY ever had to resort to this when trying to disassemble a block that has spun cylinder liners blocking the access holes.

 

You need actual 12mm swivel sockets, not just the extension to use with a regular socket) Additionally, you can only get to one of the bolts on each cap, then you have to force the halves back toghether(hoping the bearings haven't shifted and no crud got in them) and rotate it 180 to get the other ones.

 

Splitting them that way is hard enough........I wouldn't even consider putting one toghether that way. It would not be possible to completely ensure a proper assembly and sealing.

[Mugs]

Well There GLoyale I am not going to argue with you. I had the block spit in about 15 min via undoing the rod bolts. I could not even get to retainer ring on the far side with my longest (Mac Python plires) but I can and understand how it is done. And my sole purpose was to get the crank out for a template/ R & D. So no I did not have the "proper tool" (imagine that a profesional mechanic w/o the right tool) then again when your on flat rate you don't get paid/ it cost the customer more the rebild the motor then to just R &R it. Any way some day I would like to try and re-build a moter just for yucks but this was my own personal thing and I was just experimenting and making stuff that I neded the crank out for.

[torxxx]

A naturally Aspirated 2.2L is not worth rebuilding. When you are all said and done rebuilding it shortblock up, you could have bought 3 or 4 used 2.2L's from the junkyard.

 

theres a reason why not very many ppl rebuild the EJ22 and EA82's. There is a million of them around the world and they are dirt cheap

 

And not to mention some of the questions you've asked about reusing gaskets and seals.... if you are going to half rump roast a rebuild, its not worth doing. if you are going to split the case, might as well do new pistons/rings/rods/main bearings/wristpins, have the cylinders re-honed. Go all out, or nothing at all

Edited November 26, 2009 by torxxx

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks Dr. Disorder, all great advice! As for the #3 bearings... When I first got the car it had terrible lifter noise on the right side (being a VW type, I know all about lifter noise). I took out the VLAs, cleaned them, pumped them back up, and put them back in. They went flat again in about 10 minutes. Thanks to advise from this forum, I replaced that little O-ring behind the oil pump (it was in bad shape), as well as cleaned out the rocker arm shaft and all the arm holes. That fixed the lifter problem just fine, but it made it possible to hear the knock. The knock gets much quieter if I disconnect the #3 injector. So, I figure maybe it wasn't getting enough oil back there on account of the wanked out O-ring and that may have led to the bearing problem. One of the guys from the local Subaru repair specialist shop took a listen, throttled it up a bit, and said it sure sounded like a rod bearing to him.

 

I concur. Given the oil pressure problem (probably due to lack of maintenance) and the fact that it's ALWAYS the #3 rod bearing that goes first in Subaru engines..... I would say you have a good handle on the source of the knock. That's a rare beast to find an EJ22 rod knock - you "got lucky"

 

Now what's this about never being stranded somewhere? That's something I'm going to have to get used to. Along with heat, speed, power, not having to scream above the engine noise, not getting pulled over driving through Utah in a hippiemobile...

 

I totally get the draw of the air-cooled concept, and for their time they were amazing machines. Definitely the right technology for the target market..... 1930's Germany .

 

Properly maintained, it's hard to get stranded in a Subaru. Mostly that means take care of the timing belts at the proper interval (and the new belts for the EJ22's are 105k interval so not a real chore - three whole times in the life of the engine), and the cooling system. You'll kill a water cooled engine pretty fast if you have a poorly maintained cooling system. On all the used rigs I buy - especially the higher mileage one's - I go down to the dealer and have them order me EVERY SINGLE hose on the car. It's worth the insurance..... I have been stranded more times in Subaru's for blown heater core hoses, tiny manifold coolant hoses, and similar problems than ANY other reason. I've had timing belts give out on me twice (never on an EJ though), and I've blown a couple water pumps. All of these failures were on cars I bought with unknown maintenance history and just started driving - I took the gamble and still do often enough..... I have AAA because I buy and sell a lot of Subaru's and that means driving a lot of unknowns.

 

I am tired of all the "just toss in a JDM or JY motor" talk. In my opinion it is a VERY short sighted solution, and a gamble at best.

 

I respect that opinion for sure, but one has to consider a couple points in favor of the other side of the coin:

 

1. A lot of folks aren't capable of doing a rebuild or can't afford it.

 

2. The downtime is considerable compared to a swap.

 

3. A swap can allow you to rebuild the original at your leisure.

 

4. If you do it right you can minimize the risk. Buy a wrecked donor with low mileage/maintenance history or do a compression and leak-down test of the replacement as well as a reseal including the head gaskets which allows you to fully inspect the cylinders..... and definitely get a warantee if you buy one off a shelf. At any rate I don't think it's fair to NOT consider this option as it is satisfactory for many folks - often the car's these engines are going into are near or over 200k miles - if you get another 100k from a used engine the car is likely finished anyway. By that point so many things are worn out that it's not often cost effective to repair them. Gen 1 Legacy's aren't worth the dollar amount required to rebuild their engines - I can buy two or more whole running cars for what a single quality rebuild would cost.

 

Again - in an ideal world I completely agree that it's not the *right* way to fix the problem. But most of us drive around in car's that have *something* wrong with them - maybe several something's. And one must consider what he is doing to the great "economy" perspective of owning/driving a gen 1 Legacy at the same time that he is wishing to do the right thing for the car..... I would assert that the right thing for a sub-$1000 car is ALWAYS to replace a bad engine with a used one. That is the only sensible approach if you consider all the angles - anything more would be throwing away time and money on something that will never return the investment.

 

That whole argument hinges on the EJ22 being a super-reliable engine though and if it weren't for that..... well the car's wouldn't be on the road anymore and I sure as $hit wouldn't be driving one so I don't suppose that's really a valid angle either..... I simply am having a hard time seeing it any other way :-\

 

GD

Edited November 26, 2009 by GeneralDisorder

[torxxx]

for once, I'm going to agree with GD..

[bosango]

A naturally Aspirated 2.2L is not worth rebuilding. When you are all said and done rebuilding it shortblock up, you could have bought 3 or 4 used 2.2L's from the junkyard.

 

I see what you're saying there, but there's other factors besides economics to consider. Was it "wise" for me to put nearly 1/2 million miles on my bus and to keep rebuilding the engine, transmission, and every other thing that broke down over time? No way. But there's that satisfaction you get from fixing something and then driving off down the road. Plus, as has been mentioned, that's how you learn about stuff. I don't think there's a single symptom on '70s VWs that I can't diagnose and fix. That kind of knowledge comes in real handy when you hear some strange noise coming from under the hood. It also comes in handy when you come across someone broken down on the side of the road with a similar vehicle. On top of that, why create more junk when you can just fix the junk that's under your hood? At least with a rebuild, you know exactly what the situation is and you know where the weak spots are, if any. With a used engine, who knows?

 

Thanks for all the great advice and info from all you posters - I feel at home already!

[GeneralDisorder]

I understand your feelings completetly and what you are to VW's, I am to Subaru's of several vintages. I think nothing of yarding out an engine, or tearing down a 5 speed transaxle.....

 

What's important to consider, and I'm going to have a tough time drawing a corollary here..... is that a '93 Legacy with a non-turbo 2.2 isn't worth your time and effort to rebuild as Subaru's go. It's fine for a learning experience if that's what you want it for, but if you are going to be rebuilding Subaru EJ's then...... there are many engines more deserving of your time than the plain EJ22. Mostly the various incarnations of the EJ turbo engines.

 

With Subaru's, especially the EJ series, the name of the game is Turbo Charged AWD.

 

All I'm saying is that *if* I'm going to the trouble of rebuilding an engine, I would rather my valueable time be spent rebuilding sometime a bit more exotic than a phase I EJ22. Either something vintage (EA81, etc) or something with some HP - EJ22T, EJ20T/TT, EJ257, etc.

 

I just don't have the time to spare for something I can find already built under any rock.

 

GD

[torxxx]

2nd what GD said. Also if you are really serious about rebuilding an EJ22 N/A you might want to start checking on availability of the parts. Some of the stuff may be Subaru factory parts only.

 

The EA82, EJ18, and EJ22 were designed to be easy to work on, get 300k miles on them and then get thrown away. You will find that your bearing surfaces in the block are going to be scored up. There is no way around it with aluminum blocks. I took apart a 5 speed manual this week that had 75k miles on it and I couldnt reuse the case. the bearing surfaces were worn that bad that it was pointless to put back together.

 

What me and GD are getting at, you tear into an engine, order up all these parts etc just to find out that a bearing surface is fubar'd and that its a 50/50 chance that it goes back together and runs for another 100k or it grenades in 5k miles because you disturbed the surface and put a new part in it.

 

I understand what ur saying about making more junk to have laying around, but on the other hand you could always scrap out the engine and sell the aluminum to a scrap yard

[Gloyale]

2nd what GD said. Also if you are really serious about rebuilding an EJ22 N/A you might want to start checking on availability of the parts. Some of the stuff may be Subaru factory parts only.

 

Parts to rebuild the EJ22 are VERY easily available.

 

Cost me about 280 for everything. Rod and Crank bearings, Rings, and a headgasket set (if you can get a Stone gasket set, it has actual Subaru headgaskets included) machine work is extra depending on whether you get the block just honed or actually bored. Also depends on wether the crank needs ground down, or just honed.

 

If you find a decent running donor without TOO many miles, you can ussually just hone, and use standard rings and bearings. Reuse the pistons. Of course, measurment needs to be done carefully to determine these factors.

 

The EA82, EJ18, and EJ22 were designed to be easy to work on, get 300k miles on them and then get thrown away. You will find that your bearing surfaces in the block are going to be scored up. There is no way around it with aluminum blocks. I took apart a 5 speed manual this week that had 75k miles on it and I couldnt reuse the case. the bearing surfaces were worn that bad that it was pointless to put back together.

 

What me and GD are getting at, you tear into an engine, order up all these parts etc just to find out that a bearing surface is fubar'd and that its a 50/50 chance that it goes back together and runs for another 100k or it grenades in 5k miles because you disturbed the surface and put a new part in it.

 

I understand what ur saying about making more junk to have laying around, but on the other hand you could always scrap out the engine and sell the aluminum to a scrap yard

 

This is just silly. And sound like alot of justinfication for taking the "easy" way about things. IMO that installing a junkyard motor is way more of a gamble than the chance that something goes wrong with the rebuild

 

And the bearing surface crap? BS......unless it actually spun a bearing, there is no reason that new bearings can't be installed. Your translating what you saw splitting a trans case into thoughs on what hte bearings might be like in the engine.......but they are ENTIRELY different bearing types and applications. My hunch is you've never rebuilt an EJ have you?

 

Why does everyone who HASN'T DONE IT......insist that they know why it isn't worth it? Well it is.

 

You get more power from restored compression, no oil burn off, better milage, and the peace of mind that now the car can rot around it, but the engine will be running strong for 20 more years.

[hankosolder2]

Well, it seems like there are two camps here with strongly differing opinions!

 

re: the green aspect of rebuilding an engine vs. replacing it with a used one. If you're replacing a worn engine with a good used engine (which is already made) you're not really creating any net gain in "junk" in the word. If you were replacing a worn engine with a brand new one, I could see that argument.

[GeneralDisorder]

IMO that installing a junkyard motor is way more of a gamble than the chance that something goes wrong with the rebuild

 

I completely agree. A Junk Yard engine would be my last choice. I would likely rebuild one first. But there are places that sell waranteed, used engines that came from running vehicles - they do compression tests and leak-down tests, etc. And then there's the option of buying a donor (my preference) - often very cheap after they have been wrecked.

 

The '91 I just bought is a good example. I stumbled on it by accident (craigslist posting from someone's iPhone ), but it's had two owners, always dealership maintained - I have EVERY receipt for service from when the car was bought new in '91. I have all the paperwork from when it was sold in '99 including a compression test that was performed at 142k showing 175/180/175/180. I know every single part that's been replaced on the engine and they were all OEM. I got the car for $260 as it was running poorly and the brakes are worn out. It had a single injector with a failed driver coil - I replaced that and it runs like a BEAST. Pulls like freight train. Even with 215k I can tell the engine has a ton of life left with the power it has - doesn't burn or leak anything. I wouldn't hessitate to swap this into a nicer car......

 

My point is simply that if you are careful - good used engines of the sort I just bought *can* be found for really cheap.

 

Why does everyone who HASN'T DONE IT......insist that they know why it isn't worth it? Well it is.

 

I haven't rebuilt a 22 N/A but I've done a 22T and several EA81's. I just can't justify the time and expense for a plain 22 - even if I get a dud the first time it's still less time investment to swap the engine twice.

 

You get more power from restored compression, no oil burn off, better milage, and the peace of mind that now the car can rot around it, but the engine will be running strong for 20 more years.

 

I think the difference of opinion here is a result of how we use our cars. I won't be keeping any specific Legacy for 20 years - probably not even 5 years. I drive them for a bit, fix a few things, and sell them or give them away usually. The stuff I keep is more exotic..... it's all about how much you value those engines. I value reliability but as that applies to the *short-block* there really is almost no concern that the short block is going to fail and leave me stranded without quite a bit of warning. I'm looking to avoid the failure that *suddenly* leaves me on the side of the road - not neccesarily the one that I drive around for a week somewhat troubled about the new noise it's making - that I can deal with as I'll just prep another car from my fleet to replace it......

 

GD

Edited November 26, 2009 by GeneralDisorder

[subaru360]

I think it is insanity to bother to rebuild an EJ22 phase 1. I can buy a complete running engine for $65 at the U pull it. I can get as many as I can haul away at that price. Maybe 1 out of 100 of them fail. I'll take those odds and price any day. I can swap one out in 2 hours, so even that isn't a valid argument.

 

Oh and these are really tough little engines. I have a stock 100,000+ mile phase 1 EJ22 shortblock in my wrx. It makes over 300 whp, sees 22 psi almost daily and has survived a few oops at 30 psi.

Edited November 26, 2009 by subaru360

[Mugs]

I did not read all the post. But I will have to agree with the general thought. And that is yes spend you time on EA71/81 engines. I would much rather rebuild my HL EA81 then an EJ and or EA82 plus it is way harder to come by a HL EA81 then just going to the junk yard. A 71 or 61 even harder to come by.

[erik litchy]

im rebuilding my ej22 becasue they are rare here. but im making it better.

i have delta cams

im going to use Deves rings (gapless oil rings)

the head is now ported

it has a nice valve job (so small compared to the DOHC heads though

probably going to use ARP Connecting Rod Bolts

[Gnuman]

OK, everyone around here seems intent on a flamewar, and that is what is just plain silly. bosango, I recommend getting a cheap junkyard engine, and pit it in the car to hold you over while you take your time and do the rebuild right. Just like everyone else, I have my justification for this choice:

 

1) If you put a junkyard engine while you are doing the rebuild, you will not have the pressure on you to get the job done so you can drive the car. This means you will have the time to do the job this fine engine deserves.

 

2) once you have the first engine rebuilt and ready to go, you can swap that in and rebuild the other one, so you have a top quality spare. And, again, this is without the pressure to get the job done fast.

 

At the end of it all, you will have two examples of what I personally consider to be one of the best engines ever built. They are just simply that good. Hmmm, As a VW person, do you have a Vanagon laying about with a crapped out engine? Swapping an EJ22 is a very popular upgrade for that beast as well, if you need something to do with that spare engine you will have If you have any thoughts of going that route, I would pull the whole bulkhead wiring harness when you pull the spare engine. The upgrade costs a bit but goes like I think it may have something to do with the VW engine having something on the order of 85 horses on a good day, and the Subaru engine of the same size having more like 130. . . and being more reliable. .