tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm looking at buying an older soobie... a 93 loyale to be exact. However, the car apparently has a leaking oil pump and develops the TOD when warm (I don't know how severely). I've been reading this forum all day and I'm curious. Would any of you who are experienced with these cars buy one with the TOD problem preexisting? I figure a new oil pump may fix it and I'd do the timing belt, water pump and Cam seals a the the same time... none of these seem all that difficult to me since I used to be a professional mechanic. The body of this car looks to be perfect (owner claims "rust free")... I've not seen it in person yet just pictures so far. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. The seller claims that the car is very nice all around, save the engine, and the price is more than fair being that it's less than $400. That all said what would you do, buy or pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 How many miles on this? A new oil pump may not be needed. A new one is nearly always a desireable thing to have. If it has 150,000 miles on it, a new pump would last the life of the car with no worries. Yea, we buy them like that all the time. Use it as a bargaining chip. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I'd buy it. You may get lucky and be able to eliminate the ticking by adding something to your engine oil,Seafoam or ATF or whatever "snake oil" you prefer. Several board members have gotten lucky this way. It may take a re-sealing of the oil pump. The o-ring kit is cheap. About $20. I have read from the board here that the pumps don't really wear out,they just need to be re-sealed and that will sometimes clear up the tick. There is a small o-ring sandwitched between the cam tower case and the head. Sometimes that o-ring needs to be replaced. Apparently,it will wear out and cause a loss of oil flow to the lifters causing the TOD. Seems the aftermarket o-rings,in this case,are less than desireable. Here,you'll want OEM o-rings. One per side. About $3... And,of course,it could be that the hydraulic lifters (HLVA) themselvers are either wore out or just gummed up,causing the TOD. In this case,you would have to pull the cam tower case/cases to get to them. Rebuilt ones are available for about $10 apiece,or rebuild the ones you have. Some folks on here will tell you the engine in your car is Junk even when its running perfectly.And,isn't worth fixing no matter how simple the problem is. I really like the ea-82's. But,mine runs perfect. I have done all the stuff to mine that I mentioned above,plus replaced the headgaskets. I change the oil often and never go more than a few days without popping the hood and making sure everything is looking good. Whatever you do,when you tear into the front of your engine,get all the timing belt cover components off and leave them off. Run around with the timing belts exposed and you'll like the engine much more. Several board members do this,including me,without any problems. And,when you do have a timing belt break,or your oil or water pump needs attention,the job is Much easier. Edited November 26, 2009 by markjw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I'm pretty sure the car has approximately 139,000 on it... if I'm remembering what the guy told me correctly. I've seen a lot about this seafoam stuff... I looked it up on youtube and it's interesting but has anyone used BG's 44K and other products? Also I have this engine flush in a bottle stuff that I used on a previous soobie I had and it worked really well... also a BG product. (I'm familiar with BG from working for Lexus.. stuff works!) It's been my experience that leaving timing belt covers off is a BAD thing... dirt, moisture, and timing belts don't tend to get along as it will cause them to wear prematurely..instead of getting 75-120K out of them you'll only get about 50K. However, this comes from working on Toyota products (including Lexus). Not to mention that if something should find its way into the engine compartment it can destroy that stuff easily... your drive belt is far, far more durable than the timing belt when it comes to "foreign objects". Cold weather also adversely affects it as the belt looses flexibility and will crack more quickly over time. I admit it looks cooler, but it's just a poor maintenance practice. However this does explain why an 89 non runner I bought years ago was missing the covers. That all said I have no idea if this car even has the covers anymore.... for all I know they are long gone.:-\ Edited November 26, 2009 by tjb2k3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 What limited pictures I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcap Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm pretty sure the car has approximately 139,000 on it... if I'm remembering what the guy told me correctly. I've seen a lot about this seafoam stuff... I looked it up on youtube and it's interesting but has anyone used BG's 44K and other products? Also I have this engine flush in a bottle stuff that I used on a previous soobie I had and it worked really well... also a BG product. (I'm familiar with BG from working for Lexus.. stuff works!) It's been my experience that leaving timing belt covers off is a BAD thing... dirt, moisture, and timing belts don't tend to get along as it will cause them to wear prematurely..instead of getting 75-120K out of them you'll only get about 50K. However, this comes from working on Toyota products (including Lexus). Not to mention that if something should find its way into the engine compartment it can destroy that stuff easily... your drive belt is far, far more durable than the timing belt when it comes to "foreign objects". Cold weather also adversely affects it as the belt looses flexibility and will crack more quickly over time. I admit it looks cooler, but it's just a poor maintenance practice. However this does explain why an 89 non runner I bought years ago was missing the covers. That all said I have no idea if this car even has the covers anymore.... for all I know they are long gone.:-\ Pretty sure lots of guys on this forum that actually wheel their Soobs leave the timing belt covers off on purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Don't buy an EA82 vehicle. There's not much point with Legacy's being in the sub-$1000 realm. I just bought a nice running driver for $260 - replaced an injector and it needs a brake job. Even has nice 15" alloys. Keep shopping. The EA82's are not worth the trouble anymore. Timing covers are worthless on EA82's. The belts don't last long enough to be troubled by dirt or fluids even with the covers on. I always run them without because it's a 20 minute job to replace them without cover's. 3 hours with. GD Edited November 26, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 don't buy an ea82 vehicle. There's not much point with legacy's being in the sub-$1000 realm. I just bought a nice running driver for $260 - replaced an injector and it needs a brake job. Even has nice 15" alloys. Keep shopping. The ea82's are not worth the trouble anymore. Timing covers are worthless on ea82's. The belts don't last long enough to be troubled by dirt or fluids even with the covers on. I always run them without because it's a 20 minute job to replace them without cover's. 3 hours with. Gd +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 It would be nice is folks who wanted it, could have Ignore EA-82 and EA-82T buttons. Less agrivation in there live. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 It would be nice is folks who wanted it, could have Ignore EA-82 and EA-82T buttons. Less agrivation in there live. It's no aggrivation - I'm just trying to save the OP some headache's down the line. If he already owned the car and was asking these questions I would be happy to help - but if I can save him from getting into these issues in the first place then it seems wise to do so. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Well the fact is that since I don't live in the pacific northwest, where old soobies are apparently plentiful, they are extremely hard to come by here in the midwest...especially with low to no rust. For example the last old soobie i bought was in 02'. They just aren't around in any kind of decent shape. Besides this will not be a primary car... it's a winter kick around/ car I'm not afraid to put mulch, car parts, etc in. I just want something to use so my brand new altima doesn't get all jacked up by my hobbies (one of which is rebuilding garden tractors). I love tinkering with cars and have a soft spot for ugly, utilitarian, and odd cars...hence I like this one... lets face it this thing wasn't good looking even back then. My first choice was actually an early 80's GL hatch, but those are damn near impossible to find let alone in nice condition anymore. As far as the EA82 having it's issues...at least I know what to expect.. (this same thing kept me driving Toyotas for years). It's better than buying some Chevy or Dodge where literally every little thing is a likely candidate to break... I'd much rather know that when the engine ticks it's lost one of three things, rather than wondering "What's gone wrong now?". I've decided at this point that if the car checks out I will probably go ahead and buy it. I appreciate all of your advice, even those of you who say not to buy a car with this engine. Also a little side note... if this car does give me too much trouble to be worth it... I'll just flip it at the end of winter and keep looking. Edited November 26, 2009 by tjb2k3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Gen 1 Legacy wagons are pretty ugly too. Bigger inside and nicer to drive - about 100x nicer. Whole different generation of car really. And none of the problems of the EA82 engine. I've got nothing against the car's themselves - I like the EA82 sedan body a lot, but I can't justify the car based on the body and trans alone. My woman on the other hand - she can justify making me put an EJ22 into the EA82 body because....well I'm a sucker I guess. But if you like the EA82 then go for it. I stopped driving anything with that engine years ago - still have one in the GF's car, but all mine are EA81's and EJ22's. I will second the EA81 hatch - I have an '83 that's currently my daily but is being replaced with a '91 Legacy sedan as we speak. I'm half done with the brakes - just taking a computer break ATM. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'd buy it for that price as long as its a d/r manual! (And a wrecked legacy just to have a "spare" motor. ) I like the look of the ea81 better, but, whatever. Its easy wrenching. I'm looking for one about that price right now it just needs a good interior and a straight body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 " I'm just trying to save the OP " True story. I knew this woman, and she said. "Why don't you save me, from myself. Come on and save me, no-one else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 GD's right...Legacys are getting cheaper and easier to find. I see good ones that need a little work,all the time now,for $300-$700. That does bring into question why someone would want to mess with a ea82 car. For me, I have faith in my ea82 motor. I followed all the guidance from the board here,re-sealed it with quality gaskets and didn't take any short cuts. Aside from the design flaw of the over stressed timing belts,I think the motor is pretty solid. To overcome the timing belt issue,I carry with me in the smugglers hatch,a timing belt kit,Chiltons manual and tools to do the job wherever I may be when they let go. And,of course,I deleted the timing belt covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'd buy it for that price as long as its a d/r manual! It's a push button... not wild about that either... It sounds like what I should do... since a good legacy is not available within 400 miles of me.. literally. I should buy this one, fix it, enjoy it, and flip it before something REALLY bad happens. When I posted about the Tbelt covers I didn't understand that they were "overstressed". In that case it does make sense to leave the covers off. I am one to be crazy enough to find a wreck of a legacy to swap drivetrains with, but I doubt I will have this car long enough to justify the swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Is it possible to fit the 2.4L drivetrain into this car? Does it take extensive modification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 2.4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) Well I went and looked at it today... The Good: The body is 99.9% right. Some surface rust in 3 small spots (largest is about the size of a half dollar). Floors, sub-frame, and doors are all solid. Far as I can tell the car has never been hit or painted. The interior is just as nice. No major tears. No major fading. Some aftermarket wiring for a long gone sound system. Engine has a new alternator & radiator. Car has 4 "new" tires on it. (It's sat for a year but was only drive about 2k on tires before parked) Car fired right up on starter fluid, but old gas prevented a test drive. the Guy is willing to part with it for $300. The Bad :Flame:The engine has a definite rod knock when warm in addition to TOD all the time... :banghead:not good. The engine needs to be torn down and rebuilt or replaced.. needless to say I did not come home with it today... but that's the only bad thing on it. Missing the battery. (started it with a scavenged battery) I've priced a salvage engine off ebay for this car and it'd cost $1,395 shipped. (***WAY*** more than I want to invest) Does anyone know what it costs to do a complete short block rebuild with also doing cam bearings/ seals, oil pump, water pump, etc.? If I rebuild the engine, will I likely recoup the extra investment when I go to sell it? Does anyone make a rebuild "kit" for these like they do for chevy 350s, etc., or do I have to buy everything separately? I also have a line on a 2.4 legacy (I think its a 97?) but it's not in as nice of shape as this car body wise, and also a forester where the left fender, headlight, bumper etc. are all caved in from collision damage. (Donor vehicle?) These are both in the $700-1000 range. Has anyone tried to swap a 2.4L into a Loyale? I know the 2.2L works but haven't seen anything yet about 2.4L. Edited November 27, 2009 by tjb2k3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 A 2.3 will fit. Don't see any problem with a 2.4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Hey, you could offer him at or above scrap value. That would be about $200.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 He turned me down cold at 200... 300 is the negotiated price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Well, here's the 2.3. http://www.ramengines.com/id2.html Who builds the 2.4? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 It's a shame I don't live up where these are popular or I'd buy it and part it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb2k3 Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 the 98 forester I'm looking at is listed as having a 2.4L engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now